18 Replies Latest reply on Mar 1, 2011 7:38 AM by the_wine_snob

    Microsoft AVI export settings for DVD authoring

    fathergll2

      I need to export my sequence into a .AVI that will retain the best quality. Basically it needs to be like a transport medium into a DVD authoring program(It has to be in .AVI not Mpeg2)

       

      Ive been trying to search this but haven't gotten definitive answer. Best I can come up with from googling is:

       

      Export Settings

       

      Format: Microsoft AVI

      Preset: Custom

      Video Codec: None

       

       

       

      So is that correct? Would that be basically yield the best quality video keeping in the .AVI file format?

        • 1. Re: Microsoft AVI export settings for DVD authoring
          Todd_Kopriva Level 8

          Using None as your compression setting in AVI means that you're not compressing at all, so there's no chance of loss of quality. That is a fine choice for an intermediate file if you have no concern about file size.

          • 2. Re: Microsoft AVI export settings for DVD authoring
            fathergll2 Level 1

            The only thing I am finding a problem with using that setting is that my video output keeps coming out in 4:3 and it was taped in 16:9. For example when I switched the Video Codec to None, the Preset switches to Custom. Its like there is no option to specify the aspect ratio.

             

            When I switch the Video Codec to DV NTSC it comes out in 16:9 because I am able to specify the Preset up top from Custom to NTSC DV Widescreen. Its bascially stuck at Custom when using the None option for Video Codec at the bottom. (I underlined the acutal Premiere names for clarity

             

             

            adoneforum1.jpg

            • 3. Re: Microsoft AVI export settings for DVD authoring
              cvid01 Level 4

              Keep scrolling down below your video codec to Basic Settings where, further down you should see "Aspect" drop-down list to click on for widescreen aspect. Also, you do not need to check "Use Maximum Render Quality" for your type of export.

              • 4. Re: Microsoft AVI export settings for DVD authoring
                Jim_Simon Level 8

                Make sure the Pixel Aspect Ratio is set to 1.21 for widescreen output.

                • 5. Re: Microsoft AVI export settings for DVD authoring
                  fathergll2 Level 1

                  Im still having problems with the output. Its still giving me 4:3. Here are my full settings

                   

                  adoneforum2.jpg

                   

                  And here is what the output video looks like. The image to the left is the result of the above settings. The image to the right is what the footage is suppose to look like

                   

                  adoneforum3.jpg

                  • 6. Re: Microsoft AVI export settings for DVD authoring
                    Jeff Bellune Adobe Community Professional

                    In Encore, try File | Interpret Footage.

                     

                    In Pr, after re-importing the exported AVI file, try File | Modify | Interpret Footage.

                     

                    -Jeff

                    • 7. Re: Microsoft AVI export settings for DVD authoring
                      Jim_Simon Level 8

                      Your output is correct.  It just needs to be unsquished.  DVD players normally do this automatically.  Software media players do not.

                      1 person found this helpful
                      • 8. Re: Microsoft AVI export settings for DVD authoring
                        fathergll2 Level 1

                        Jeff Bellune wrote:

                         

                        In Encore, try File | Interpret Footage.

                         

                        In Pr, after re-importing the exported AVI file, try File | Modify | Interpret Footage.

                         

                        -Jeff

                         

                         

                        Well that seem to work. Interesting feature

                         

                        Thanks

                        • 9. Re: Microsoft AVI export settings for DVD authoring
                          Jeff Bellune Adobe Community Professional

                          You're welcome.

                           

                          AVI file headers, where Pr and En get a lot of their information about a file, don't contain (or maybe they can't contain?) PAR information.  Interpret Footage is a very necssary feature!

                           

                          -Jeff

                          • 10. Re: Microsoft AVI export settings for DVD authoring
                            Jim_Simon Level 8

                            It must be possible for AVI headers to contain the info.  PP correctly sees anamorphic DV clips from a camera.  (Bridge, too.)

                            • 11. Re: Microsoft AVI export settings for DVD authoring
                              Ann Bens Adobe Community Professional & MVP

                              Uncompressed avi never seems to show correct par.

                              • 12. Re: Microsoft AVI export settings for DVD authoring
                                Jeff Bellune Adobe Community Professional
                                PP correctly sees anamorphic DV clips from a camera.

                                 

                                I think that's due to the Interpretation Rules.txt file.  In CS5 it's in the \Plug-ins\en_US folder.  Here's an excerpt:

                                 

                                # assume NTSC DV is D1 aspect
                                720, 480, *, *, * = 10/11, *, *, *

                                 

                                -Jeff

                                • 13. Re: Microsoft AVI export settings for DVD authoring
                                  Colin Brougham Level 6
                                  PP correctly sees anamorphic DV clips from a camera.

                                   

                                  I think that's due to the Interpretation Rules.txt file.

                                   

                                  # assume NTSC DV is D1 aspect
                                  720, 480, *, *, * = 10/11, *, *, *

                                   

                                  Alright, you gotta explain this one to me

                                   

                                  For one, the interpretation rule you posted is for 4:3 DV, not widescreen. For another, check out any widescreen DV file in MediaInfo or GSpot, and you'll see it's reported as 16:9. That would suggest that the PAR is indeed written in the AVI header; if it required an external interpretation file, these other programs wouldn't be able to recognize these files as widescreen, as they don't have access to the Interpretation Rules.txt file.

                                   

                                  Myth: busted!

                                  • 14. Re: Microsoft AVI export settings for DVD authoring
                                    the_wine_snob Level 9

                                    Colin,

                                     

                                    One thing that can get in the way, is how the header info is written. Programs, like G-Spot, or MediaInfo, are a bit less caring, than PrPro will be. It's similar to the JPEG header info. PS is very critical, and every i must be dotted, and each t crossed. Other programs, like IrfanView, will look beyond that poorly formed header info, and open the file. The trick then, is to just do a Save_As, get the JPEG header info correctly written, and then PS will open with no questions.

                                     

                                    In this case, the file appears to Import fine, but the flag is missed. In those cases, Interpret Footage usually comes to the rescue.

                                     

                                    Not sure about that txt file, and what might need to be done there. That is above my pay grade...

                                     

                                    Hunt

                                    • 15. Re: Microsoft AVI export settings for DVD authoring
                                      Jeff Bellune Adobe Community Professional
                                      Alright, you gotta explain this one to me

                                      Well, I can't.  First, I just grabbed one set of "interpretations" from the file as an example.  I wasn't trying to match the excerpt with whatever file is being discussed here.

                                       

                                      Second: why then, does Pr, Windows Media Player, VLC and any number of other players I've tried have such a tough time with the PAR and/or field order of Lagarith, UT or Uncompressed files, but display DV AVI files with the proper PAR?  Do they have their own internal interpretation rules?  Does the DV codec itself send that information?

                                       

                                      I've come across more than one reference that implied or stated that PAR info wasn't in the AVI header.  But I don't remember ever coming across what I consider to be a definitive reference.  And even if *I* thought it was definitive, who knows?  BBC PARs anyone?

                                       

                                      The RIFF header for an AVI file is a big place.  I don't pretend to know all the codes that live there.  I see fields for frame size and file length, but nothing that clearly says PAR or DAR or field order or even frame rate.  Frame rate has to be derived from the Rate and Scale fields.  It's possible that certain players will not dig deep enough into the various sections of the header to get information.  I know of an app a few years back that thought Premiere-generated DV avi files lacked a fourcc code.  Pr didn't put any fourcc info in the AVI Stream Header, but it did put it in the Stream Format Header.  The app in question never looked past the Stream Header and just assumed the info wasn't there.

                                       

                                      So why do some players/NLEs interpret the PAR and field order of some AVI files correctly, but not other files?  I don't know.  But if the info was in the header of every AVI file, wouldn't every app be able to find it?

                                       

                                      Anyway, this is a good question, and maybe we can get some good answers.

                                       

                                      -Jeff

                                      • 16. Re: Microsoft AVI export settings for DVD authoring
                                        Colin Brougham Level 6

                                        First off, my apologies--I was way too tired when I posted that above, and it came off snarkier and more smart-alecky than I intended. I was referencing just the example of DV, and not Lagarith, Ut, uncompressed or anything else--I'll explain...

                                         

                                        Well, I can't.  First, I just grabbed one set of "interpretations" from the file as an example.  I wasn't trying to match the excerpt with whatever file is being discussed here.

                                         

                                        Ah, my bad. I took your reply to be in reference to anamorphic widescreen DV, since that is what you were quoting. Irrespective of that, though, you'll notice in the Interpretation Rules.txt file that there aren't any entries for anamorphic widescreen DV. There can't be, and here's why: standard DV and widescreen DV have the same pixel dimensions, or 720 pixels wide by 480 pixels high. Looking at the Interpretation Rules.txt file, you can see that those values are the primary "filter" for applying interpretation of an otherwise unknown PAR. So imagine if this were in the IR.txt file:

                                         

                                        # assume NTSC DV is D1 aspect
                                        720, 480, *, *, * = 10/11, *, *, *
                                        
                                        # assume NTSC DV Widescreen is D1 Widescreen aspect
                                        720, 480, *, *, * = 40/33, *, *, *
                                        

                                         

                                        (The math: 40/33 = 1.2121, or the PAR of DV widescreen.)

                                         

                                        We'd have a problem; rules farther down the list override rules farther up the list, so any of your standard aspect file would be interpreted as widescreen. That's why we can't two interpretations for the same pixel dimensions with no other filter criteria applied in the IR.txt file. But, that should shed some light on why your uncompressed, LAGS, and Ut AVIs don't come in as you'd expect.

                                         

                                        (Note that this is simple conjecture on my part, and I'm willing to stand down if an engineer wants to set the record straight )

                                         

                                        Second: why then, does Pr, Windows Media Player, VLC and any number of other players I've tried have such a tough time with the PAR and/or field order of Lagarith, UT or Uncompressed files, but display DV AVI files with the proper PAR?  Do they have their own internal interpretation rules?  Does the DV codec itself send that information?

                                         

                                        The answer to your first question is your rhetorical third question DV does contain an anamorphic flag that tells the decoder how to display the pixels. Now, I'm not sure whether this is in the header of the file, or somewhere else in the bitstream, but it certainly is a result of the codec itself. It's just a tiny bit of information that the decoding application can read so that it knows to stretch the image horizontally to the 16:9 widescreen aspect.

                                         

                                        The other codecs can be any PAR you wish, but the DAR will be whatever the gross dimensions of the video image are. If you create a Lagarith AVI at 720x480 with a specified PAR of 1.2121 (widescreen), looking at it with any of the video file peeping program will show a DAR of 3:2; the PAR is not part of that calculation. So in light of that, I agree: for MOST codecs, you can't carry the true PAR/DAR information in the file, at least not in a meaningful way that can be correctly interpreted by most applications.

                                         

                                        So why do some players/NLEs interpret the PAR and field order of some AVI files correctly, but not other files?  I don't know.  But if the info was in the header of every AVI file, wouldn't every app be able to find it?

                                         

                                        Well, I think it really comes down to the application that created the AVI file, and the application that is reading the AVI file. Here's what I mean:

                                         

                                        I assume that most of the source AVIs you're referring to are created in third-party apps--VirtualDub and what have you. Even if you're feeding an anamorphic source file to these applications, when you create your DI AVI, you're not getting the PAR you'd expect. I'm sure you've imported the AVI back into Premiere and found that even there, your AVI is being interpreted as 4:3, and not 16:9.

                                         

                                        However, what happens when you export a widescreen AVI (from widescreen DV source, for example) from Premiere to something like uncompressed, Lagarith, or Ut? On the desktop, those playback as 4:3, but if you reimport them to Premiere, they're 16:9.

                                         

                                        Wha-wha-what? I can hear it now. Just try it. OK, back? Good. Here's why:

                                         

                                        <x:xmpmeta xmlns:x="adobe:ns:meta/" x:xmptk="Adobe XMP Core 5.0-c060 61.136967, 2010/06/15-10:43:27        ">
                                           <rdf:RDF xmlns:rdf="http://www.w3.org/1999/02/22-rdf-syntax-ns#">
                                              <rdf:Description rdf:about=""
                                                    xmlns:xmpMM="http://ns.adobe.com/xap/1.0/mm/">
                                                 <xmpMM:DocumentID>xmp.did:57482EC30744E011B36F8AD2007536BC</xmpMM:DocumentID>
                                                 <xmpMM:InstanceID>xmp.iid:57482EC30744E011B36F8AD2007536BC</xmpMM:InstanceID>
                                              </rdf:Description>
                                              <rdf:Description rdf:about=""
                                                    xmlns:xmpDM="http://ns.adobe.com/xmp/1.0/DynamicMedia/"
                                                    xmlns:stDim="http://ns.adobe.com/xap/1.0/sType/Dimensions#">
                                                 <xmpDM:startTimecode rdf:parseType="Resource">
                                                    <xmpDM:timeValue>00;00;00;00</xmpDM:timeValue>
                                                    <xmpDM:timeFormat>2997DropTimecode</xmpDM:timeFormat>
                                                 </xmpDM:startTimecode>
                                                 <xmpDM:altTimecode rdf:parseType="Resource">
                                                    <xmpDM:timeValue>00;00;00;00</xmpDM:timeValue>
                                                    <xmpDM:timeFormat>2997DropTimecode</xmpDM:timeFormat>
                                                 </xmpDM:altTimecode>
                                                 <xmpDM:videoFrameSize rdf:parseType="Resource">
                                                    <stDim:w>720</stDim:w>
                                                    <stDim:h>480</stDim:h>
                                                    <stDim:unit>pixel</stDim:unit>
                                                 </xmpDM:videoFrameSize>
                                                 <xmpDM:videoFrameRate>29.970030</xmpDM:videoFrameRate>
                                                 <xmpDM:videoFieldOrder>Lower</xmpDM:videoFieldOrder>
                                                 <xmpDM:videoPixelAspectRatio>40/33</xmpDM:videoPixelAspectRatio>
                                              </rdf:Description>
                                              <rdf:Description rdf:about=""
                                                    xmlns:dc="http://purl.org/dc/elements/1.1/">
                                                 <dc:format>Microsoft AVI</dc:format>
                                              </rdf:Description>
                                           </rdf:RDF>
                                        </x:xmpmeta>
                                        

                                         

                                        What's interesting is the bit about "videoPixelAspectRatio". This is the result of opening up a Lagarith AVI file in a text editor--weird, but try it (preferably with a small AVI!) and look at the top of the document. If I bring it into Premiere, the PAR is interpreted correctly, but any other application displays it as 3:2.

                                         

                                        So, Adobe-sourced AVI files, even those using codecs that don't intrinsically have a widescreen anamorphic flag, can be properly interpreted--so long as you keep your workflow all Adobe. Once you venture outside the castle walls, you have to manually tell an encoder or playback application what the true PAR of a file should be.

                                         

                                        Ultimately, I think you're right, Jeff--the PAR/DAR of an AVI is not present in the header (or maybe anywhere in the bitstream), but there are some exceptions to the rule. Hopefully we can get some actually scientific proof of all of this

                                        • 17. Re: Microsoft AVI export settings for DVD authoring
                                          Jeff Bellune Adobe Community Professional
                                          First off, my apologies

                                          Not necessary.  I know you well enough, and you put in enough smileys, so that I didn't feel snarked.

                                          We'd have a problem; rules farther down the list override rules farther up the list, so any of your standard aspect file would be interpreted as widescreen

                                          Very good point.  I didn't even think about that when I grabbed my excerpt.

                                          The answer to your first question is your rhetorical third question

                                          You give me too much credit.  The question wasn't rhetorical, and I didn't know that DV sets an anamorphic flag for the decoder.  That's maybe what the 0110 and 0010 codes are in the RIFF header...

                                          I agree: for MOST codecs, you can't carry the true PAR/DAR information in the file, at least not in a meaningful way that can be correctly interpreted by most applications

                                          Doesn't it give you, like, a shudder of electricity... to be in the same forum with me?

                                          (Apologies to Lex Luthor)

                                           

                                          Reference your example about Adobe's XMP metadata in Adobe-generated AVI files:  Since it's injected into the file itself, any changes to the metadata in Pr will update the actual file's Last Modified date/time.  It's even possible (I haven't explicitly tested) that simply opening up the Metadata Panel in Pr can cause a file update.  Be careful out there!

                                           

                                          Given what I've seen in MediaInfo and GSpot for various AVI files, it makes sense (like you said) that the information contained in an AVI file's header is very dependent on the writing application.  I assume there's a specified minimum amount of info, but obviously room for a lot more optional info.  What's an editor to do?

                                           

                                          -Jeff

                                          • 18. Re: Microsoft AVI export settings for DVD authoring
                                            the_wine_snob Level 9

                                            Good discussion, and greatly appreciated - except for Colin's snarky comments...

                                             

                                            I see a lot of instances, where the PAR is totally ignored, and not just in Lagarith, UT, or Uncompressed. A lot of consumer cameras, shooting in some fairly mainstream CODEC's also have their PAR lost. Most of these instances are in PrE, and I do not know if it even uses the rules TXT file. Maybe time for me to check.

                                             

                                            A number of PrE users ask, "why does [instert AV player name here] show my footage correctly, but PrE does not?" Before, the only answer that I had was, "well, the file's header info did not make the PAR flag clear to PrE, for some unknown reason." That usually holds them, and is not really untrue, just lacking in the proper detail, that you are discussing. That is, so long as Interpret Footage DOES get them the correct PAR.

                                             

                                            As an example of the PAR flag issue, one user with some mini-DVD camera discs and their VOB's, has several, where the PAR flag was missed by PrE. Not something that we see often here, but still a pretty mainstream AV, just MPEG-2 in the VOB container - and some worked fine, but others did not?

                                             

                                            If nothing else (like me gaining a full understanding of all of it), I can now link to this thread for some background discussion on flags in AV file headers.

                                             

                                            Greatly appreciated,

                                             

                                            Hunt