15 Replies Latest reply on Feb 20, 2011 12:19 PM by silversurfer2

    Hiding brands in videos

    Christopher Duncan Level 2

      We're shooting some of our show in my studio control room. It's a show for geeks, so it's cool that we have a console and lots of rack gear that lights up like NCC 1701D. But of course, therein lies the problem.

       

      Mixers, speakers, rack gear, TVs, you name it. This room is full of product brands / logos. How on earth do you guys deal with something like this? If I put a little piece of tape over every place where there's a brand name, I'll go through an entire roll of tape. Not to mention how incredibly clumsy it will look.

       

      Surely there's a saner method?

       

      It would be great if I could get them all to pay for placement. However, I'll settle for just not getting sued back to the stone age.

        • 1. Re: Hiding brands in videos
          Todd_Kopriva Level 8

          Just to be clear: You're asking about doing this in "pre" (as opposed to doing it in "post"), right?

           

          The post-production solution is relatively simple, but putting a little tape over the logo in pre-production is oh-so-much simpler. I don't think that it would look clumsy if it's black tape on black equipment.

          • 2. Re: Hiding brands in videos
            silversurfer2

            Black matte Gaffer's Tape. I don't go to a shoot without a roll 

            • 3. Re: Hiding brands in videos
              Christopher Duncan Level 2

              Yeah, I figured I could do it in post, but with so many logos to deal with I figured it would get cumbersome in a hurry. Gaffer's tape seems the most effecient solution, just didn't know if there was a better way.

               

              BTW, don't know if I posted in AE by mistake or it was moved from the lounge, but at least now I know why it didn't show up there. Sorry for the cross post, thought the forum dropped the first one on me.

              • 4. Re: Hiding brands in videos
                silversurfer2 Level 1

                But why would you want to do it in post? Dude you are so far ahead of the curve knowing that those logos have to be hidden BEFORE SHOOTING...so many people don't even see that until they are editing.

                • 5. Re: Hiding brands in videos
                  Christopher Duncan Level 2

                  If I know anything at all, it's because of the company I keep here.

                  • 6. Re: Hiding brands in videos
                    oldschoolmx Level 1

                    Let me ask something more fundamental here...Maybe I'm being obtuse here...but why would a company sue you for essentially marketing their product?

                     

                    When companies are paying to have their products pictured in movies and TV shows...who would ever sue you for such a thing. It seems impossibly implausible to me.

                    • 7. Re: Hiding brands in videos
                      Todd_Kopriva Level 8

                      > It seems impossibly implausible to me.

                       

                      Sadly, it happens.

                      • 8. Re: Hiding brands in videos
                        silversurfer2 Level 1

                        oldschoolmx wrote:

                         

                        Let me ask something more fundamental here...Maybe I'm being obtuse here...but why would a company sue you for essentially marketing their product?

                         

                        When companies are paying to have their products pictured in movies and TV shows...who would ever sue you for such a thing. It seems impossibly implausible to me.

                         

                        Oh it's more than plausible...so let's clarify.

                         

                        Companies pay for air time on TV channels and in movies where they are in line with the content and the demographic is targeted so they give permission (you can bet that those Chef Boyardee kids ads are not being run on The Playboy Channel). Let's say YOUR logo is seen in a piece with content that would totally drag your logo and business model into the trash? If they showed your logo without your permission, and now the public associates your logo and business with a bad situation they saw on TV (even if it were not true), wouldn't you sue the pants off of them? I know I would.

                         

                        They usually don't sue immediately if it's not severe...you usually get a "Cease & Dissist" letter from their attorney's office to remove the piece immediately. If you don't comply IMMEDIATELY, then you are sued. I have had a few "Cease & Dissist" orders handed to me so I know.

                        • 9. Re: Hiding brands in videos
                          oldschoolmx Level 1

                          silversurfer2, That's not at all the context of the OP....at least not the impression I got.

                           

                          Of course...if the video was promoting a partisan religious or political cause...there'd be a stink. Or if I was overtly using a brand name to boost the credibility or attractiveness of my offer...or if I was portraying the brand in a bad light...all these are of course scenarios where you'd certainly have some risk in getting a c&d letter.

                           

                          But I think many corporations and their lawyers make their video producers overly paranoid about such things...and generalize out to the extreme: never show a product logo in the background of your video.

                          • 10. Re: Hiding brands in videos
                            silversurfer2 Level 1

                            oldschoolmx wrote:

                             

                            silversurfer2, That's not at all the context of the OP....at least not the impression I got.

                             

                            That explaination was for you not for the OP.

                             

                            Look....the OP is right on the money to be concerned about showing logos. He's obviously a pro = end of discussion. If you think everyone is being paranoid, let the logos fly in your next project.  Have fun

                            • 11. Re: Hiding brands in videos
                              Todd_Kopriva Level 8

                              BTW, welcome back, Joey.


                              • 12. Re: Hiding brands in videos
                                silversurfer2 Level 1

                                How you doin' Todd??? Long time - no see!! INSANELY busy here...craziest 3 year span EVER. I figure I would drop in to see what's up and I run right into this thread - LOL!!!

                                 

                                I just had a meeting with Dave Helmly and the guys from Adobe at my studio not too long ago showing off CS5. We're all updated

                                • 13. Re: Hiding brands in videos
                                  oldschoolmx Level 1

                                  silversurfer

                                   

                                   

                                  I'm a 20 year veteran. So unless you want me to call you "boy" or perhaps you should lay off your arrogant 'tude.

                                   

                                  I'm currently doing a big project for the government and no one has the least ounce of concern about hiding logos. Quite the contrary.

                                   

                                  So perhaps it goes back to what I said: context.

                                   

                                  If I implied that Chris's concerns were misguided that was not my intention...and I doubt he has taken any offense. I'm sure he is pursuing due diligence and is a master craftsman.

                                  • 14. Re: Hiding brands in videos
                                    Christopher Duncan Level 2

                                    While I'm grateful for the benefit of the doubt, in the video world I'm far from an old pro, thus my rather elementary questions. I've been in pro audio since the 70s but the issues are different in that domain.

                                     

                                    In fairness to why companies would complain, even though you're granted a trademark, you can lose it if the court deems you haven't been acting to protect it (I've run a few small businesses over the years). So while it seems petty to hassle someone for giving you free advertising, they actually have to do so in order to keep from creating liabilities of thier own.

                                     

                                    As for the reality that you can probaby get away with it depending on context, this show is a completely recreational project that will never make a dime, so I'm not willing to risk legal expenses based on "probably." Silly, perhaps, as the odds are in my favor. Still, a cease and desist means I have to reshoot and produce a show that's already out there. Not good. And that's best case scenario. Worst case, I have to fight a large or small legal battle, which costs money.

                                     

                                    In the real world, it's not about right and wrong. It's about who can pay the mostest and the longest for lawyers. The only winning move is not to play.

                                     

                                    Hence my efforts to do it right up front so that I can concentrate on creative fun and building an audience, without all that pesky looking over the shoulder stuff.

                                    • 15. Re: Hiding brands in videos
                                      silversurfer2 Level 1

                                      Well said Chris - you have exactly the right mindset entering into any project...that is a very professional attitude. A "C & D" is not fun to get. It DOES bring the project to an immediate HALT and causes frantic redos to keep the airtime slots and (in Broadcast TV) keep from losing hundreds of thousands of $$$. You are absolutely correct in inquiring about caring for someone's logos pre-shoot.

                                       

                                      I have done thousands of Advertising, Broadcast TV and Marketing projects over the last 11 + years and 99% of it is the logo. The LOGO is the thing. From an advertising aspect, companies spend a lot of money on that logo. It is their identity. The color, shape, context of that logo must be represented in a way that the client is happy and is in keeping with the company mission.

                                       

                                      So that $40 roll of black Gaffer's Tape I mentioned will save you mega-bucks in redos and lawyer fees . OR...you can always use Mocha and track & replace every single logo in every single shot in Post if you are a masochist .

                                       

                                      Good luck, brother. Let us know how it turns out.