7 Replies Latest reply on Mar 4, 2011 1:52 PM by Dave LaRonde

    Effects to Premiere Rendering clarification

    emin3m33 Level 1

      Guys. I did a premiere pro cs5 project import into AE CS5. THat project had a few avi clips with no effects on them. Now, I applied one simple effect in after effects, to reduce the video noise. Then I rendered the clip by saving it as an avi clip. I then imported that "denoised" clip back into Premiere, and it's messed up. There are black Boxes flickering every few seconds halfway across the screen when I try to play it back in Premiere. Also the render bar in Premiere is now yellow for that denoised clip? Also when I play the avi clip in a media player or vlc pplayer, it plays fine.

       

      What is the best way for me to import a few video clips into After Effects from Premiere, apply an effect or to in AE, then export it back to premiere for further project work? It's just that If I do all my effects in Premiere first, then import whole completed project into AFter Effects, none of my Premiere PLugins work in After Effects. Isn't the whole point of these programs to smoothly transition projects between themselves? I also have encore and usually i would export just to encore. But this messes up my flow of things. What are some of your methodologies for creating a project that has plugins applied from both premeire and AE as well as the final output going to Encore? Thanks

        • 1. Re: Effects to Premiere Rendering clarification
          Mylenium Most Valuable Participant

          Guys. I did a premiere pro cs5 project import into AE CS5. THat project had a few avi clips with no effects on them. Now, I applied one simple effect in after effects, to reduce the video noise. Then I rendered the clip by saving it as an avi clip. I then imported that "denoised" clip back into Premiere, and it's messed up. There are black Boxes flickering every few seconds halfway across the screen when I try to play it back in Premiere. Also the render bar in Premiere is now yellow for that denoised clip? Also when I play the avi clip in a media player or vlc pplayer, it plays fine.

           

          Confusion, confusion! You need to get a few things straight first.

           

          • AVI just like MOV is a container format and can contain anything from legacy Windows CoDecs to AVCHD.
          • You cannot render to some of these formats from AE, since internally they use specific video processing that AE can't provide.
          • There are no "simple effects" - going AE always results in the footage being fully decoded, transformed to uncompressed RGB color and then the effect is applied.
          • Re-encoding afterwards happens based on the full RGB data, not the original source.

           

          Hence, all of what you see is probably normal, with the exception of the random black blips. If your Premiere project is set to AVCHD, since there is no way to redner it directly from AE, you will always end up with an intermediary file in anotehr CoDec that requires a second conform in Premiere. It may play realtime, regardless, but then again it may not. Therefore the line is yellow, not green to inform you. The evil blips of black you see are probably due to unsuitable compression settings when outputing from AE. This in turn may lead Premiere to mess up. On the other hand, they could already appear in AE, but you never so them because you didn't run RAM previews or your footage interpretation was wrong, so fields were suppressed. Impossible to tell from your little info.

           

          Isn't the whole point of these programs to smoothly transition projects between themselves?

           

          It is not. Compositing and editing are different workflows. Some of what I said above applies here - different processing pipelines for different priorities and workflows. That doesn't preclude going back and forth, but it's not really the point. Your problem is that you seem to have no masterplan (no offense) and need to adapt your workflow. you need to decide on what to do where and when. Based on your comments, you are doing too much, going too far ahead in Premiere and going to AE too late in the process, so any project conversion can only be a lossy process. There are basically only 2 "good" workflows for removing your noise:

           

          a) Apply all corrective effects before even beginning to edit, import corrected clips as fianls in Premiere. Downsides:

           

          • You may process footage that you never will use later
          • Duplicate footage = lots of drivespace required
          • You lose native acceleration in Premiere

           

          b) Do a proper rough cut - edit the clips, but without transitions and effects, only defining the timing. Allow overlap for adding fades and effects later, open the sequence in AE, do effects, transfer rendered files back to Prmiere, replacing the original unprocessed soursce. finish the whoile piece. Downsides:

           

          • Last minute changes will require jumping back to AE
          • You may miss footage pieces
          • Overall composition hard to judge without transitions and audio in AE

           

          So take a pick which to you is the two of the lesser evils. how you get your files across is anotehr matter, but since you didn't provide any details about your current process, I'll settle for a generic "anything from Dynamic Link to Quicktiem fiels wizth lossless compression (Animation, PNG). Feel free to post your follow-up questions on that one.

           

          Mylenium

          • 2. Re: Effects to Premiere Rendering clarification
            emin3m33 Level 1

            THis is exactly what I want to do:

            b) Do a proper rough cut - edit the clips, but without transitions and effects, only defining the timing. Allow overlap for adding fades and effects later, open the sequence in AE, do effects, transfer rendered files back to Prmiere, replacing the original unprocessed soursce. finish the whoile piece. Downsides:

             

            how do i transfer rendered files back to Premiere? This is the trouble I have in doing. Is there an easy option just by exporting the rendered files as a whole? Or do i do them seperately. Also what type of file should it render to? Im new to after effects but I just want to use denoiser in AE since Premiere doesn't do it.

            • 3. Re: Effects to Premiere Rendering clarification
              Mylenium Most Valuable Participant

              Unfortunately no. What you will have to do to get separate clips is to pre-compose all of them into their own comp, then render that comp. Since AE will import a Premiere timeline as a single comp with staggered clips, that could mean a lot of work. However, there is a "Precompose to layer duration" script eitehr on AEnhancers.com or AEscripts.com that can take care of the matter. Of course you can render the entire master comp also and already apply some transitions in AE. With regards to the format - use Quicktime with Animation, PNG (on rare occasions PhotoJPEG) compression, image sequnces or uncompressed AVIs. Using H.264 or MPEG-2 HD with very high data rates might also be an option in some cases, but any compression will of course cost quality and may again cause issues when importing in Premiere. As an alternative, if your computer is reasonably powerful, consider importing your AE comps as a Dynamic Link item in Premiere.

               

              Mylenium

              • 4. Re: Effects to Premiere Rendering clarification
                Jordan Olthuis Level 1

                I want to understand what is meant by 'rendering' because in my understanding

                they could mean two different things.

                in Premiere you RENDER footage that has that red bar over top and then it becomes green so that it looks and plays back normally, and you EXPORT footage as a whole movie file.

                 

                but in AE it seems like you use the word RENDER to talk about saving it as a movie file, is that right? because I just need to understand exactly what your talking about.  I would prefer not to EXPORT anything from AE but just use dynamic link to bring it in Pr, because I have a better idea of what I'm doing when exporting and I know how it will look when done and stuff.

                 

                so if were putting effects in AE, and we need to bring it to Pr, and if I want to just use dynamic link, I should make each video clip into its own composition and then import each of those compositions into Pr and just replace the un-'effected' clips with all the AE comps?

                • 5. Re: Effects to Premiere Rendering clarification
                  Dave LaRonde Level 6

                  As you're aware, there are two forms of media file creation in AE: rendering and exporting.  Exporting is almost always the down-and-dirty, limited-choice, one-at-a-time file creation option.  Rendering is the sophisticated, choice-filled, customizable, batch-processing file creation option.

                   

                  There aren't very many Words To Live By in AE, but there's one phrase that you'd do well to learn:

                  "If AE gives you a choice between rendering and exporting, it's almost always better to render."

                   

                  Why?

                   

                  1) More Choices -- Try this test: create a comp of your choice, then duplicate it.  Export the comp, and notice the range of choices available to you.  Now add it to the render queue: you'll note that you have LOTS more choices of what to do, giving you a range of choices for virtually any need. 

                   

                  2) Customization -- You'll note that when you add your comps to the render queue, you have two things you can adjust: the Render Settings and the Output Module.  Each one lets you create and save your very own settings, a very handy thing to have.

                  What if you need to create a lot of alpha channeled quicktime movies?  Create a custom Output Module for that very purpose.

                  What if you want to include audio in your quicktime move?  No sweat. Make an output module that can do it.

                  Want to make 23.976, film-frame-rate footage into 29.97 TV-frame-rate video?  Make a new Render Settings to do that.

                  Best of all, YOU choose the default render settings and output modules: just set 'em and forget 'em. 

                   

                  3) The Only Choice -- There are some things that you can do only in the Render Queue, such as adding 3:2 pulldown to 23.976 footage, as mentioned above.  And it works slicker'n snot on a doorknob.

                   

                  4) Batch Processing -- Too Cool For Words.  Are you getting sick of exporting a big comp, then waiting several minutes or even hours for it to finish?  What if you had a bunch of comps to get done?  Just add 'em to the Render Queue.  If you've set your default Render Settings and Output Modules, add 'em one after another, save the project, and then you can render when YOU want to... like overnight, when you're having fun or sleeping and the computer isn't doing anything.

                   

                  5) Exotica -- Wouldn't it be cool if you could make an animation AND attach the AE project right to it?  You can do that in the render queue.  Wouldn't it be slick to make a quicktime movie AND an image sequence of the same thing at the same time?  No sweat in the render queue; in fact, there are a couple of ways to do it.

                   

                   

                  Now there ARE a few things that you can't do from the render queue.  You can't make AIFF files, for one.  There are others, but not many.

                   

                  So remember this mantra:

                   

                  "If AE gives you a choice between rendering and exporting, it's almost always better to render."

                  • 6. Re: Effects to Premiere Rendering clarification
                    Jordan Olthuis Level 1

                    alright thanks, but when you say export do you mean going to file-export-and then the 3 different options (adobe flash player, flash proffesional, premiere pro project)

                     

                    cuz then ya i understand that rendering is better because you got way more options,

                     

                    but I still have a problem with rendering though, it NEVER looks good enough, I try the 'best settings' and I choose some options I think are good and the quality is always unusable, which is why I never want to render out of AE and always bring it to Pr so I can export it in actual good quality!