10 Replies Latest reply on Feb 23, 2011 10:37 PM by Moore6931

    Wrong Colors

    Moore6931

      February 21, 2011

       

      Hello:

       

      This might be the wrong venue for my question but here goes.  Hopefully, one of you will recognize my problem.

       

      Through CS4, I've been printing with an Epson R1900.  My monitor and printer have been profiled with the XRite Eye-1 Extreme.  I use Epson ink in the printer and, primarily, Epson paper.  For nearly a year, the screen and prints were a good match.

       

      A couple of days ago, I printed a photo with sunlight reflecting off of the water; the color is yellow-gold (RGB 248, 216, 122 and 103, 82, 44); the file color profile is sRGB 8 bit.  On Epson glossy paper, the color reproduction is more like a dingy green.  I've tried glossy paper with the custom profile and with the stock Epson Vivid.  I've tried CS4 managing the color and the printer managing the color (not at the same time); I know not to allow CS4 and the printer to manage the color, simultaneously.  A new profile was generated for the glossy paper.  In every configuration, the printed color is varying degrees of dingy green.

       

      The closest color reproduction is to use the Epson Vivid profile, either plain or glossy paper but specify plain paper in the settings.

       

      The computer has been powered off and restarted, several times.  I've removed and reinstalled the printer.  The yellow, orange and cyan ink cartridges have been replaced.  Nozzle cleaning and head alignment maintenance programs have been run.  Epson Tech Support has been contacted but they have not identified the problem, yet.  Printing through Windows XP Windows and Fax Viewer yields the same results.

       

      I would appreciate guidance to solve this problem.  Naturally, I can't print anything with this color error.

       

      I thank you for your time and consideration.

       

      Scott

        • 1. Re: Wrong Colors
          p_d_f Level 2

          My first idea is that you've hit one of the rare instances of ProfileMaker's yellow turning greenish bug. Certain papers are more prone to it and you really hardly ever see it, but every once in a while it makes itself welcome. Does using Perceptual rendering made any difference?

           

          Do you have the Profilemaker Edit Module? If you do, it's a real easy fix to tune this out. If not, I'd be happy to take a look at the profile and see if that is indeed the problem.

          • 2. Re: Wrong Colors
            Moore6931 Level 1

            February 22, 2011

             

            Hello:

             

            I thank you for your input. 

             

            1. For the profile creation, I have GretagMacbeth through Xrite i1.  I don't know of any profile editing software but will look into it, though I am not clear as to what I would edit.

             

            2. I've attached a file, which compares five original photo files with the printed/scanned file.  With Adobe CS4, I took several RGB samples from the same region of each photo. The last comparison (030908 El Estero Park 13) is the file, which is giving the most problem.  I realize that the scanner has not been profiled but it is what I have; also, the high gloss prints will affect the scans.

             

            3.  The last page of "022211 Print Comparison.pdf" shows screen captures of the print settings, for the comparison.

             

            4. "030908 El Estero Park 13" is the only photo that has displayed such an extreme deviation in the printed color, relative to the screen color. 

             

            5. Because the color reproduction is good on plain paper (printer manages color with Epson Vivid, not CS4), I think that the printer is OK.

             

            6. The profiles for Epson Glossy and Matte papers are included.

             

            I hope that this makes some sense.

             

            Thank you for your time and effort.

             

            Scott

             

            Attachments:

             

            1. 022211 Print Comparison.pdf

            2. Epson R1900 Prem Presentation Matte 070610.icc

            3. Epson R1900 Prem Gloss 070810.icc

            • 3. Re: Wrong Colors
              p_d_f Level 2

              Scott,

               

              I'm not seeing any attachments to your previous message. Maybe they got lost or forgotten. I'm curious as well if these images are from the same El Estero Park I practically grew up in in Monterey.

              • 4. Re: Wrong Colors
                Moore6931 Level 1

                February 22, 2011

                 

                Hello:

                 

                There is only one El Estero Park, in Monterey, so I'm sure that you know it well.

                 

                The files were attached to the previous e-mail.  Maybe they were stripped for size.  I'll try sending them separately.

                 

                Scott

                 

                Attachment: 022211 Print Comparison.pdf

                • 5. Re: Wrong Colors
                  Moore6931 Level 1

                  February 22, 2011

                   

                  Hello:

                   

                  This is the profile for Epson Premium Glossy paper.

                   

                  Scott

                   

                  Attachment: Epson R1900 Prem Gloss 070810.icc

                  • 6. Re: Wrong Colors
                    Moore6931 Level 1

                    February 22, 2011

                     

                    Hello:

                     

                    This is the third attachment.  It is the profile for Epson Matte paper.

                     

                    Please let me know if you receive these.

                     

                    Scott

                     

                    Attachment: Epson R1900 Prem Presentation Matte 070610.icc

                    • 7. Re: Wrong Colors
                      Moore6931 Level 1

                      February 22, 2011

                       

                      Hello:

                       

                      This is an interesting development.  I just finished a telephone call with Epson Support.  Their technician had me print without any color management (neither CS4 or the Epson printer managed the print color).  The print color is fine without management! 

                       

                      In this instance, has the effort for accurate color reproduction caused a deviation in the color reproduction?  CS4 identifies the file format as sRGB IEC61966-2.1 (8bpc), which most of my jpg's are (especially the older files).

                       

                      Please help me to understand.

                       

                      Scott

                      • 8. Re: Wrong Colors
                        Larry Tseng Level 1

                        Hi Scott,

                         

                        This is an interesting development.  I just finished a telephone call with Epson Support.  Their technician had me print without any color management (neither CS4 or the Epson printer managed the print color).  The print color is fine without management!


                        If the R1900 behaves like an sRGB device, then it would seem that an sRGB image should print well without color management.

                        I found a couple of canned profiles from Epson lying around, one named Stylus Photo R800, and the other Stylus Pro 3800 3800C 3850. I’m not sure what papers are involved, but both gamut volumes pretty much match that of sRGB.

                        By the way, I also didn’t find your attachments.

                        Larry

                        • 9. Re: Wrong Colors
                          p_d_f Level 2

                          Scott - I still don't see any attachments, only a line of text that says that there is an attachment, but nothing actually attached. If you want you can email me directly at peter_at_peterfigen_dot_com. I'll look at your files tomorrow.

                           

                          In order to properly diagnose this, there's actually quite a lot to do, including having you document the specific steps and settings you used when you made your custom profile, including all driver settings and what version of Photoshop combined with your OS and Epson driver version.

                           

                          You Epson is most definitely NOT anything close to sRGB, unless you're using the Color Controls section of the driver, which dumbs down the gamut to something less than sRGB. That's really the only scenario that might make sense. Also, there are just too many driver setting variables that can affect the final output. Unfortunately you most likely got a first level Epson tech who had two weeks of training and doesn't really understand the process. I kid you not; I spoke to a tech several years ago in the pro support who just transfered from his job as an L.A. city bus driver with no background in imaging at all.

                           

                          Peter

                          • 10. Re: Wrong Colors
                            Moore6931 Level 1

                            February 23, 2011

                             

                            Dear Peter:

                             

                            I am sorry about the missing attachments.  They left here.  I guess that the forum servers stripped the attachments.

                             

                            On a brighter note, I think that the problem has been solved.  I generated new profiles for the R1900 with the papers, which I use.  Then, I ran print tests, as follows.

                             

                            1. No color management (per Epson),

                             

                            2. Original gloss profile with various settings and

                             

                            3. New gloss profile with various settings.

                             

                            The results were consistent.  I compared the results with the monitor and previous prints (if available).

                             

                            1. With no color management, the prints are significantly dark but the color was OK.

                             

                            2. With the original gloss profile, the prints are noticeably dark and the color had a bluish-green tint.

                             

                            3. With the new gloss profile, the prints are good for brightness and color.

                             

                            A question remains: what happened!  The ink, ink cartridge and paper are from Epson; the files haven't changed, the file reading hasn't changed, etc.  However, something(s) are an overriding parameter!  From my Mechanical Engineering background, I am accustomed to manufacturing tolerance and functional variations but what is this fickle parameter.  To me, this experience suggests that the Epson original profiles are now worthless.  If it were not for the printer profiling system, my prints would be terrible.  I wonder how often this sudden system change will occur.

                             

                            I thank you for your help.

                             

                            By the way, if you would like to see some of my photos of this area, please go to http://envisioningmoore.com/.

                             

                            Scott