3 Replies Latest reply: Feb 22, 2011 2:34 PM by rob day RSS

    CS4 Colour Management question(s)

    Skempy Community Member

      Ok, here goes...

       

       

      My team of designers create adverts in InDesign that are to appear in either a newspaper OR a glossy magazine.

      We employ an Ad Tracking system that provides a blank InDesign template for them to work from.

      The Ad Tracking system knows if the advert is for newsprint or glossy and provides a template where the CMYK Working Space is either ISOnewspaper26v4 or ISO Coated v2 300% (ECI) respectively.

       

      We only ever place CMYK images into these adverts. These images have been converted in Photoshop using the same ICC Profiles (depending on destination) as above. Profiles are not included in the images.

       

      We then output a PDF with "No Colour Conversion" and "Don't Include Profiles" in the output settings.

       

      We have been working this way for years but I would like to introduce an RGB workflow where we can place RGB images in InDesign and output a PDF that is not yet specifically for Newsprint or Glossy.

       

      I don't want InDesign to convert to a profile but our Ad Tracking system can route this "generic" PDF through a system called Asura from One Vision that does the conversion to Newsprint or Glossy using the relevant output ICC Profile.

       

      My questions...

       

      1. Am I correct in thinking that the RGB and CMYK values of the placed images will not change in the PDF exported from InDesign?

      2. How are placed images affected by the Working Space?

      3. Does "Emulate Adobe InDesign 2.0 CMS Off" give a non-specific document?

       

      I have watched both David Blatner's and Chris Murphy's titles on Colour Management on Lynda.com and thought I had a reasonable grasp of basic colour management until I came to think about changing workflow.

       

      Any help would be greatly appeciated.

       

       

      Thanks

       

      Simon.

        • 1. Re: CS4 Colour Management question(s)
          rob day Community Member
          I don't want InDesign to convert to a profile but our Ad Tracking system can route this "generic" PDF through a system called Asura from One Vision that does the conversion to Newsprint or Glossy using the relevant output ICC Profile.

          The PDF/X-4 preset is designed for the workflow you are describing

           

          1. Am I correct in thinking that the RGB and CMYK values of the placed images will not change in the PDF exported from InDesign?

           

          PDF/X-4 leaves color values unchanged and all objects are assigned a profile, which would be necessary for any conversions to happen at output. So if you place untagged RGB those objects would be assigned the document's assigned RGB space, or the working RGB space if the document doesn't have an assignment. Same goes for placed CMYK. PDF/X-4 enforces profiles so you will likely get a CMYK-to-CMYK conversion of CMYK objects with tags that conflict with the output profile.

           

          2. How are placed images affected by the Working Space?

           

          If a placed image has an embedded profile and you allow ID to see it (Preserve Embedded Profiles are set as your doc's CM Policy in Color Settings) the working spaces have no effect on the placed image, the image's embedded profile is used. If the policies are set to Off, or Preserve Number(Ignore Linked Profiles) in the case of CMYK, then the document's assigned profile manages the image's color. Finally, If there's no profile assigned to the document, the Working Space takes over and manages the image's color.

           

          3. Does "Emulate Adobe InDesign 2.0 CMS Off" give a non-specific document?

           

          If you are going to allow conversions downstream, definately don't use that color setting. While it will produce a PDF with no profiles, that's not what you want because the automated conversion system needs to have a source profile to correctly convert to the destination press profile—it needs to know whether your placed RGB is AdobeRGB, sRGB, ProPhotoRGB etc.

          • 2. Re: CS4 Colour Management question(s)
            Skempy Community Member

            Thanks Rob, well explained.

             

            Just a couple more questions if you don't mind...

             

            How would you create an InDesign document with no profile assigned?

             

            and

             

            Does it matter if a document has a Glossy profile assigned and the exported PDF is then converted to Newsprint downstream? Is this just a case of the downstream conversion needing to know what profile was assigned to the document and the placed images?

             

            Thanks again.

             

             

            Simon.

            • 3. Re: CS4 Colour Management question(s)
              rob day Community Member
              How would you create an InDesign document with no profile assigned?

               

              If you set the Color Settings Color Management Policies to Off no profiles will be assigned to the ID doc and any placed images will have their embedded profiles ignored. In that case the Color Setting's Working Space profiles are going to handle any conversions, which include the conversion of CMYK colors back to RGB for display. So beware—with policies set to Off, the preview of any CMYK or RGB objects could change if the Color Setting's Working Spaces are changed.

               

               

              Does it matter if a document has a Glossy profile assigned and the exported PDF is then converted to Newsprint downstream? Is this just a case of the downstream conversion needing to know what profile was assigned to the document and the placed images?

               

               

              In the case of PDF/X-4 the document's assigned CMYK becomes the source profile for native ID CMYK colors, so downstream you should get a GlossyCMYK-to-Newsprint CMYK conversion. You'll have to test whether this causes problems. Is your automated system smart enough to protect certain CMYK colors like 100% Black?