9 Replies Latest reply: Feb 27, 2011 6:56 PM by Jeff Bellune RSS

    Create a 16:9 Widescreen DVD with 1920x1080 video; Resize needed?

    Kopy-Rite Community Member

      Trying to help a customer, and finding myself in unfamiliar territory.

       

      We manufacture DVD's... don't really author them.

       

      Customer asked us to take their video and create a simple menu.  Easy enough... so I thought!

       

      The DVD was provided in 1920 x 1080, 29.97 fps.

       

      They want a SD DVD.

       

      Each of the chapters was provided in a seperate Quicktime file.

       

      We import the files as assets into Encore, and then place them in a 16:9 timeline, everything seems fine.

       

      Menues work, no problem.

       

      When we burn the DVD, however, and play it on a standard TV we loose video on both sides.

       

      Obviously, the video is outside of the safety zone.

       

      So, we went into Premier, loaded a file, and then manually resized the video so that it fit into the safety zone.

       

      This seems to make it play properly on a standard 4:3 TV, and we will be testing to see how it works on a widescreen TV tonight.

       

      Is this the right approach... to resize it in Premier?

       

      Seems like a lot of work; especially since the videos are already in the right aspect ratio, etc.  Isn't their some easier way to do it in Encore?

       

       

       

        • 1. Re: Create a 16:9 Widescreen DVD with 1920x1080 video; Resize needed?
          Stan Jones MVP

          DVD by definition (we'll stick to NTSC) is 720x480.  You have to resize HD video to create an SD DVD.  To keep the full resolution you do Bluray.  Yes, the aspect of the picture may be similar, but the PARs are not and the sizes are not.

           

          This is not an issue of safety zones.  That is just to make sure you can see text when it might otherwise be in the overscan areas.

           

          Do a search of the premiere forums for "HD to SD."

           

          You're over your head (that's okay), but for a paying customer, you need a consultant to help you work out this process.

          • 2. Re: Create a 16:9 Widescreen DVD with 1920x1080 video; Resize needed?
            Kopy-Rite Community Member

            Appreciate the "over your head" comment.  I suppose by defination every idiot that posts to this forum is in over their head, otherwise they wouldn't need to post a question.

             

            I'm not charging to help this charity... just trying to help them.

             

            Perhaps "resize" is the wrong terminology.  I know how to downsize (resize, whatever) the video to 720x480, and already transcoded it.  Followed the widely quoted (and informative) instructions from Bellune Video, found here:   http://bellunevideo.com/tutorials/CS4_HD2SD/CS4_HD2SD.html

             

            The problem is when I bring the video into Encore, and burn a DVD.  When that DVD is played on a 4:3 screen, it does not letterbox correctly.

             

            There is a thin stip of black along the top and bottom... less than a normal letterbox look.  And video is missing from the right and left size.

             

            I thought that resizing the video might be necessary, which is why I asked the question.

             

            Resizing the video in Premier, and then bringing into Encore to create a DVD caused it to play correctly on a 4:3 screen, but, as I'm sure many of you predicted, this resized video does not display properly on a 16:9 widescreen (there are black bands completely surrounding the video).

             

            So perhaps more concise phrasing might ask why the video does not letterbox properly on a 4:3 screen?

            • 3. Re: Create a 16:9 Widescreen DVD with 1920x1080 video; Resize needed?
              Stan Jones MVP

              I'm sorry; I was responding to your comment about a "customer" and "unfamiliar territory."  You are no more over your head than many of us dealing with such issues.  And I now understand where the confusion came from.

               

              The problem is when I bring the video into Encore, and burn a DVD.  When that DVD is played on a 4:3 screen, it does not letterbox correctly.

               

              There is a thin stip of black along the top and bottom... less than a normal letterbox look.  And video is missing from the right and left size.

              DVD players and have settings that can create some of this appearance.  So I would check that.  But the thin black and cropping left and right does not sound like such an issue on a 4:3 TV set.

               

              So, I would look for PAR issues, even though it appeared okay within Encore.  Is the footage the right PAR?  In Encore, is it interpreted correctly?

               

              Perhaps Jeff will stop by, and he may be able to pin this down...

               

              this resized video does not display properly on a 16:9 widescreen (there are black bands completely surrounding the video).

               

              So perhaps more concise phrasing might ask why the video does not letterbox properly on a 4:3 screen?

              You appear to be saying that this is also not displaying properly on a 16:9 screen?  Which again points to PAR issues.

              • 4. Re: Create a 16:9 Widescreen DVD with 1920x1080 video; Resize needed?
                Jeff Bellune ACP

                Version of Encore, please?

                 

                Things to check (Stan covered most of them):

                1. PAR of the MOV files after they're imported into En.  Use File | Interpret Footage.  They should be PAR 1.0 (Square Pixels) if the MOV files are 1920x1080.  If En gets this wrong, then everything else will be wrong, too.
                2. Transcode settings that were used.  Default is Automatic, and you need to check what those are using File | Project Settings.  Make sure the destination PAR is set correctly; it should be Widescreen.  For NTSC, that's a PAR of 1.2121.
                3. Settings on the DVD player when it's hooked up to the 4:3 TV.  Make sure the player is set up to output a 4:3 signal.
                4. Make sure the 16:9 TV is set up to display 4:3 material properly, without using any of the so-called "stretch" modes of the aspect ratio, or the 16:9 mode.
                5. Settings on the DVD player when it's hooked up to the 16:9 TV.  Make sure it's set up to output a 4:3 signal.

                 

                Two things jump out at me: don't crop or resize the video in Pr.  Transcode and author it properly, and let the DVD player and TV take care of the letterboxing.  The other thing is that if your video is displaying window boxed on a 16:9 TV, that indicates the source video is matted 4:3, which can again be traced to bad settings on the DVD player.  So if the DVD player thinks it's sending a signal to a 4:3 TV, and the 16:9 TV thinks it's getting a 4:3 signal, then presto!  Window-boxed widescreen video magically appears.

                 

                -Jeff

                • 5. Re: Create a 16:9 Widescreen DVD with 1920x1080 video; Resize needed?
                  Kopy-Rite Community Member

                  OK, here are a few images to better explain the issue / question.

                   

                  The images were provided in HD format.  Some came as 1440 x 1080, while others came as 1920 x 1080.  (I know... that alone is an issue, but that's the way the came and we've got to deal with what was provided.)

                   

                  I used Adobe Media Encoder (CS4) to convert to SD format (720 x 480). As I mentioned, I followed the widely quoted (and informative) instructions from Bellune Video, found here:   http://bellunevideo.com/tutorials/CS4_HD2SD/CS4_HD2SD.html to do the conversion.

                   

                  I created the menus, etc, and everything navigates properly.

                   

                  The three pics below show the video from the same DVD player (paused... so I could make a clear comparison.

                   

                  This first image shows the DVD displayed on a widescreen TV, in the "Movie Expand" setting.

                   

                   

                  IMG_0024.JPG

                   

                   

                  This second pic show it in the 16:9 format setting (Again, DVD play just paused, and simply changing the TV settings).

                   

                  IMG_0025.JPG

                   

                   

                  Not sure if the video is supposed to display that way in 16:9 setting, but at least I can see everything.  I'm sure this has something to do with pixel aspect ratio... but this is not really my main worry at this point.

                   

                  Here is the final pic, showing the same paused output on a standard TV:  (Oddly enough, these are both Phillips TV's, so don't let the namebadge at the bottom of the screen confuse things.  They really are different sets.)

                   

                  IMG_0028-2.jpg

                   

                  When I play "normal" widescreen movie, it will letterbox, and I can see the full movie with the black bands along the top and bottom of the screen.

                   

                  Althought it might be tough to see in the picture, with our project there is black banding at the top and bottom.  However, some of the picture is gone on the right and left side of the screen.  Not much, but some.  I don't have that sort of loss with "normal" widescreen videos.

                   

                  And, it would appear as if the aspect ratio is off, judging by the shape of the ball diamond on the right side of the picture.

                   

                  So, I'm guessing there are several issues here, and maybe they are related?

                   

                  The first is still my orginal question of why some video would be cutoff when viewed on a 4:3 TV.

                   

                  The second is now aspect ratio differences that are now evident when viewing as stills.  Would this suggest that the original used some pixel aspect ratio that I did not properly convert?  I would think that the 16:9 version above would the the "correct" look?  That is they way it was setup on Encore... with a 16:9 timeline.

                   

                  The video generally looks right on either monitor (no Squished or Bloated faces!), so maybe there is no aspect ratio issue?

                   

                  Just trying to make this right before stamping out thousands of them!

                   

                  Thanks for any advice.

                  • 6. Re: Create a 16:9 Widescreen DVD with 1920x1080 video; Resize needed?
                    Kopy-Rite Community Member

                    Not sure why the other pics did not post, but here is the 16:9

                     

                    IMG_0025.JPG

                    • 7. Re: Create a 16:9 Widescreen DVD with 1920x1080 video; Resize needed?
                      Kopy-Rite Community Member

                      And here is the 4:3 tube pic:

                       

                      IMG_0028-2.jpg

                      • 8. Re: Create a 16:9 Widescreen DVD with 1920x1080 video; Resize needed?
                        Stan Jones MVP

                        Thanks for the images and nice explanation.  I'll look forward to Jeff's take here.

                         

                        Images 1 and 2 are the same TV, with the TV setting changed.  I assume the image is distored in image 1 to stretch its  height for the movie expand setting.  Image 2 is a correct 16:9 display.

                         

                        Image 3 looks to me like a correctly letterboxed 16:9 image on a 4:3 TV.  The 4:3 type TV typically has more overscan than the HD TV, accounting for the very slight cropping left and right.  But it is very slight, right?

                         

                        You don't say, but I assume you did change the DVD player setting from the HD TV (16:9) to the 4:3.

                        • 9. Re: Create a 16:9 Widescreen DVD with 1920x1080 video; Resize needed?
                          Jeff Bellune ACP

                          Can you post a screenshot of how you think your video should look on each of the TVs?  Based on the images you've included (my thanks, also), everything looks proper.

                           

                          So, we went into Premier, loaded a file, and then manually resized the video so that it fit into the safety zone.

                          If none of the images you posted are what you expect to see, then I would revert your Pr project to a point before that step.  You should:

                          1. Edit your 1920x1080 footage in a 1920x1080 square pixel sequence.
                          2. Add the 1440x1080 footage to the same 1920x1080 sequence.  If Pr interprets the 1.333 PAR of the 1440x1080 footage correctly, then it should look perfect in the 1920x1080 sequence.
                          3. Export the 1920x1080 sequence to MPEG2 DVD, using the NTSC Widescreen preset and setting Use Maximum Render Quality.  In the Export Settings dialog, you should see thin black bars on each side of the frame under the preview area's Output tab.  That's normal, and should be hidden on playback by any TV set's overscan.
                          4. Import the M2V and WAV files from your Pr export into a widescreen NTSC DVD project in En.
                          5. Create timelines and add menus and build the project.

                           

                          Once you've done all that, you've done all you can do as editor/author.  It's up to the folks watching the TV to take it from there.  You have absolutely no control over how they set up their TVs and DVD players.  If the picture appears distorted at that point, it's on them.

                           

                          -Jeff