14 Replies Latest reply: Mar 3, 2011 8:01 PM by MT.Freelance RSS

    pica/points or inches (or other measure)

    TCarp Community Member

      I've read other posts on this so I understand the advice is to use whatever measure one is most comfortable with.  But beyond that, what are the pros/cons for using pica (and/or points) vs. inches or mm?

       

      Does the output device matter?  For example, if I'm print destined will the printer care?

       

      Does it matter if I'm mostly text or have a reasonable percentage of images?

       

      Or is there just a convention to use pica/point when print layout is involved?

       

      Since the images are coming from AI or PS will I end up happier with a common unit of measure?

       

      I can learn pica/point terminology but tend to think in inches (U.S.).

       

      Thanks

       

      Tom

        • 1. Re: pica/points or inches (or other measure)
          Steve Werner CommunityMVP

          I like to use picas (sometimes) for two reasons: It makes it easier to make calculations. Quickly: What's 1-5/8" + 2-7/8"? Not so fast right? But 3p4 + 2p7 = 5p11.

           

          Second, it's closely tied with points (12 pts = 1 pica) so it works more easily with type size, leading, setting up baseline grids, etc. I can much more easily visualize adding p6 (6 pts.) of leading before a subhead and p3 (3 pts) after a subhead.

           

          But, really it does depend on your preference. The only time when it really matters if you're creating an online document. Then you should use points (CS4 and earlier) or pixels (CS5) because those refer to screen pixels.

           

          There is a very nice discussion of this in the latest InDesignSecrets.com podcast between designer Nigel French, David Blatner and Anne-Marie Concepcion:

           

          InDesignSecrets Podcast 144

          • 2. Re: pica/points or inches (or other measure)
            Kenneth Benson Community Member

            Doesn't matter. Use whatever you're comfortable with.

             

            Me, I'm used to dealing with specs that say things like "11/14 Copperplate BC, 17 pts above, 11 pts below". So it's easiest for me to work in points. The measurements are also easier for me to visualize. I mean, which is simpler: 12 pts or a nice repeating decimal like .1667"? And when I need two of them I have no trouble adding 12 + 12 in my head. How much is .1667 + .1667? Further, lead is almost always expressed in points. Space above and below a paragraph is most easily expressed along with lead, in points. IOW, which is simpler: "11/14 Copperplate BC, 17 pts above, 11 pts below" or "11/14 Copperplate BC, .2361" above, .1528" below"?

             

            BTW, converting from inches or millimeters back to points leaves rounding errors: 12 pts + 12 pts = 24 pts, but .1667" + .1667" = 24.005 pts.

             

            I mostly don't bother with picas anymore. 294 pts + 153 pts = 447 pts is easier than 24p6 + 12p9 = 37p3.

             

            Ken Benson

            Pegasus Type

            • 3. Re: pica/points or inches (or other measure)
              MT.Freelance Community Member

              Mostly a matter of personal preference considering how easy it is to change the unit of measure in use within a document.

               

              Personlly, I use points (not picas). I've not wrapped my brain around the idea of picas, though I probably could if it became a requirement. 12 points per pica. It is easier, to me, to type "16" and get 16 points instead of "1p4" to get the same.

               

              72 points per inch (using postscript instead of traditional)

              I find it easier to think: lets add a 2 point thick rule instead of lets add a 0.027777 inch rule

               

              Or, I want to add a 12 point space before this 24 point heading instead of lets add a 0.1666 inch space before...

               

              It allows better precision, in my opinion.

               

              Again, it i a matter of personal preference.

               

              -mt

              • 4. Re: pica/points or inches (or other measure)
                P Spier CommunityMVP

                I keep my rulers set to inches most times, but that doesn't prevent me from entering values in points when more appropriate (who want's to do the decimal thing for 2 pts.?). Yeah, I have to include the unit once in a while when entering a value in a filed that expects inches, but it keeps me fom constantly having to divide by 72 or work in base 12 to figure out how big something large is in units that make sense for big things.

                • 5. Re: pica/points or inches (or other measure)
                  TCarp Community Member

                  Thanks to all of you for the posts.

                   

                  I like the idea of setting to points (w/o picas).  One less thing to think about.

                   

                  And also found the "convert from inches to mm" helpful.  Sounds like the best approach is pick one unit and stick with it.

                   

                  Appreciate the comments.

                   

                  Tom

                  • 6. Re: pica/points or inches (or other measure)
                    Nini Tjäder Community Member

                    Which you use much depends on which part of the world you reside and work in. Personally I use millimeters and then points for type and lines. Inches is only in English speaking countries and picas is usually not used in Europe as far as I know.

                    • 7. Re: pica/points or inches (or other measure)
                      mckayk_777-PN6kWE Community Member

                      G'day

                       

                      As you can tell I am from Australia and I mostly use mm and cm mainly for the reason of when talking to customers they can understand better the sizes that I am talking about. If I was to say to a layman the page will be so many inches or what have you wide and deep they would have no idea what I was talking about.

                      • 8. Re: pica/points or inches (or other measure)
                        marcusstringer Community Member

                        I personally use MM becuase I'm also from Australia, and gentlemen use the metric system

                         

                        Also you can really drill the measurment down fast : Bleed = 5mm Slug = 10mm, offset trims =5mm

                         

                        Set guides .5mm incraments etc... what whatever floats you boat really. I just hate trying to think of fractons (inches)

                        • 9. Re: pica/points or inches (or other measure)
                          John Hawkinson CommunityMVP

                          Picas do have an advantage over points.

                           

                          It's often considered good practice to try to set sizes and positions on even pica boundaries. 1p of space between adjacent images, photos that are 24p high by 18p wide, etc.

                           

                          A pica is small enough that you can enforce even pica boundaries without limiting your design much. And it is large enough that you can see, in an obvious way, when two objects don't line up because one is 1p above the other.

                           

                          Why is this good?

                           

                          Because it makes it really easy for objects to line up with each other. If one object is 17 points from the top of the page and the other is 18 points, that's a hard mistake to catch by eye. But your design will be wrong, and it will feel wrong to readers on a subconscious level. The really careful ones will actually see what's wrong and say, "Oh, these two things don't line up, what a sloppy design."

                           

                          But by using even pica increments, you save yourself from this problem.

                           

                          Of course, you can do this with points. Just make sure that everything is a multiple of 6 points. Or some other value. But it's a lot less convenient to check each dimension for divisibility-by-six. It doesn't exactly jump out at you.

                           

                          And sure, there are applicatons where 1p is too limiting. But even going down to half-picas (1p, 1p3, 2p, 2p3) is much easier to see numerically than it is with points.

                           

                          You could also use tenths of an inch (1.1", 1.2", 1.3"), but they don't have all the same nice properties of picas. They are a bit small as an increment for you to obviously see alignment errors in (depending on your eye), and they do not have the nice correspondence with points that is so useful when dealing with type.

                           

                           

                          Just some food for thought.

                          • 10. Re: pica/points or inches (or other measure)
                            Nini Tjäder Community Member

                            Picas and inches are only good in countries where they are used as standard, that is probably only the US. The rest of us do not understand them...

                            • 11. Re: pica/points or inches (or other measure)
                              Joel Cherney Community Member

                              My intense love for the metric system is unusual for someone who grew up in the US, but I can't get comfortable with using millimeters for page layout, for some unknowable reason. I'll stick to my points and picas the way that the Brits don't drink metric units of beer at the pub.

                              • 12. Re: pica/points or inches (or other measure)
                                Stix Hart Community Member

                                I have to agree with Nini on this one, that "millimonkeys" as my Dad called them, are the way to go, but the fact that I would never consider another measurement unit tells me that those who are used to other units wouldn't either.  I do agree though that points (and/or picas) would work better with type, although being able to type 10mm into a box and having it converted helps...

                                • 13. Re: pica/points or inches (or other measure)
                                  Kenneth Benson Community Member

                                  Just to add to this:

                                   

                                  I'm not a slave to any particular measurement system. I use whatever makes sense. CDs and DVDs are 116 mm. So when I'm working on a CD label, I use millimeters. Book cover spine dimensions (at least in the US) are expressed in thousandths of inches. So when I work on book covers, I use inches. For my client in South Africa who wanted me to design an A4 form, I used millimeters.

                                   

                                  Ken Benson

                                  Pegasus Type

                                  • 14. Re: pica/points or inches (or other measure)
                                    MT.Freelance Community Member

                                    I agree with Ken's sentiment for the most part. No argument from me 

                                    againt that ideal at all. Use what is most appropriate for the job.

                                     

                                    That being said, the original post was regarding picas or inches in 

                                    the US. Or

                                     

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