1 2 Previous Next 42 Replies Latest reply on Mar 10, 2011 5:11 PM by Noel Carboni

    Direct access to Camera Raw

    Cherisy

      Hello

      I would lmike to know if it is possibvle to access DIRECTLY Camera  Raw, i;E without going through Photoshop first ?

      Thanks

        • 1. Re: Direct access to Camera Raw
          Yammer Level 4

          Not as far as I know. It's a plug-in only - a single file with an 8bi extension.

          1 person found this helpful
          • 2. Re: Direct access to Camera Raw
            Yammer Level 4

            ... and I should mention that you can access it from Bridge too.

            1 person found this helpful
            • 3. Re: Direct access to Camera Raw
              Curt Y Level 7

              You have to access ACR either through Bridge or Photoshop, as camera raw is not a stand alone product.

               

              If you accesss it through Bridge it is a 32 bit product, in you access in in 64 bit Photoshop it opens in 64 bit mode.

              • 4. Re: Direct access to Camera Raw
                Noel Carboni Level 7

                The Lightroom raw conversion engine shares internals with Camera Raw.

                 

                Perhaps the workflow you're trying to achieve could be accomplished through LightRoom.

                 

                -Noel

                • 5. Re: Direct access to Camera Raw
                  MadManChan2000 Adobe Employee

                  As others have noted, ACR is a plug-in, and therefore requires a host. Two example host applications are Photoshop and Bridge.

                   

                  Lightroom has the same image processing functionality as the ACR plug-in (but does not depend on the plug-in itself).

                  • 6. Re: Direct access to Camera Raw
                    Hudechrome Level 2

                    I've seen the reference before to the 32 bit 64 bit opening, depending on which host one uses. Is there any advantage in ACR, to prefer the 64 bit host? I don't see any problems in 32 bit but I may be missing something.

                     

                    Thanks!

                    • 7. Re: Direct access to Camera Raw
                      Cherisy Level 1

                      Thanks for your help

                      • 8. Re: Direct access to Camera Raw
                        Jeff Schewe Level 5

                        Hudechrome wrote:

                         

                        Is there any advantage in ACR, to prefer the 64 bit host?

                         

                        Yes...speed. At the minimum ACR in 64-bit will be 10-15% faster (so the engineers tell me). But I've seen better slider performance and faster updates when opening really large raw files (such as from a 1Ds MIII or a Phase One 60MP back).

                         

                        If you have lots of spot removals and are using any lens corrections or local adjustments it seems faster than 10% for me when using ACR hosted by Photoshop instead of Bridge...

                        • 9. Re: Direct access to Camera Raw
                          Hudechrome Level 2

                          Ok, thanks. Now does it go to 64 bit when using the Bridge Icon in PS or do you use minibridge or...?

                          • 10. Re: Direct access to Camera Raw
                            Yammer Level 4

                            The 64 bit version comes into its own when using perspective correction and luminance noise reduction.

                             

                            You can only host the 64 bit version in Photoshop 64-bit. You can launch it from Bridge, using Ctrl-O (or double-click, if set to open in Ps), so long as the 32-bit version of Photoshop isn't already running.

                            • 11. Re: Direct access to Camera Raw
                              Hudechrome Level 2

                              Yammer P wrote:

                               

                              The 64 bit version comes into its own when using perspective correction and luminance noise reduction.

                               

                              You can only host the 64 bit version in Photoshop 64-bit. You can launch it from Bridge, using Ctrl-O (or double-click, if set to open in Ps), so long as the 32-bit version of Photoshop isn't already running.

                              Ok, I have 64 bit. PS is not open. I open a RAW using double click or open in ACR. Did it open as 32 or 64, and how do I know? If I right click the image select Open in PS it first runs PS which I can determine which version 32 or 64 is opening, and I assume then that the ACR which follows is running 64 bit.

                               

                              The 64 bit version comes into its own when using perspective correction and luminance noise reduction.

                              and luminance or luminance?

                               

                              I opened a file in ACR by selecting "Open in Camera Raw" without having PS running. I selected the luminance noise reduction and moved the slider. I saw no flicker or any indication that now I am in 64, or was I always in 64?

                               

                              I feel like I am a Beatles song! Does PS luv me or not?

                              • 12. Re: Direct access to Camera Raw
                                Noel Carboni Level 7
                                function(){return A.apply(null,[this].concat($A(arguments)))}

                                Hudechrome wrote:


                                Did it open as 32 or 64, and how do I know?

                                 

                                Watch for process(es) starting in Task Manager.  Each process has an indication of whether it's 32 bit or native 64 bit.

                                 

                                If you're running the plug-in from Bridge, and no new 64 bit process starts, then you're running Camera Raw as part of Bridge, which is only 32 bit.

                                 

                                People sometimes wonder why I prefer to use (64 bit) Explorer as my integrating app, avoiding Bridge entirely. 

                                 

                                -Noel

                                • 13. Re: Direct access to Camera Raw
                                  Hudechrome Level 2

                                  Well, if I open PS in 64 bit first, that guarantees me that I am running 64 bit. That's what I came up with looking around. The Process Explorer is a good suggestion.

                                   

                                  My files are not nearly as large as medium format so I probably won't see much difference, but I want to be sure where I am first.

                                   

                                  Without supplementary viewers, I cannot visually pick the file I want in Explorer.

                                   

                                  It sucks to be hobbled!

                                  • 14. Re: Direct access to Camera Raw
                                    Yammer Level 4

                                    If you go into Bridge's preferences, on the General tab, you see "double-click edits camera raw settings in bridge". If you tick this, double-clicking an image in Bridge will load ACR 32-bit hosted by Bridge - equivalent to typing Ctrl-R. If you clear the tick, double-clicking an image will load it in ACR hosted by Photoshop - equivalent to typing Ctrl-O. Photoshop 64-bit is loaded, unless 32-bit is already open.

                                     

                                    Once edited, if you click "Done" you're either left in Photoshop or Bridge, depending on which application hosts ACR. That's also a good indicator.

                                    • 15. Re: Direct access to Camera Raw
                                      Level 4

                                      Hudechrome wrote:

                                       

                                      …Without supplementary viewers, I cannot visually pick the file I want in Explorer.

                                       

                                      It sucks to be hobbled!

                                       

                                       

                                      Get a Mac already, Larry.   

                                      • 16. Re: Direct access to Camera Raw
                                        Noel Carboni Level 7

                                        Says the guy who can't even run the latest Photoshop. 

                                         

                                        -Noel

                                        • 17. Re: Direct access to Camera Raw
                                          Hudechrome Level 2

                                          My neighbor and photo trip partner, also an engineer (Xerox) just got a Macbook, and let me tell you, it is tempting! But he doen't like the fact that Apple holds a tight leash on messing with it.

                                           

                                          Been thinking about you Ramon. I miss our conversations on music.

                                          • 18. Re: Direct access to Camera Raw
                                            Hudechrome Level 2

                                            Ah, Ramon is a good guy, except when he trashes you!

                                            • 19. Re: Direct access to Camera Raw
                                              Hudechrome Level 2

                                              Nice, Yammer P. I do have that checked in Prefs. I'll check it out.

                                              • 20. Re: Direct access to Camera Raw
                                                Hudechrome Level 2

                                                Works just as you said, Yammer.

                                                 

                                                Guess I don't need Mac after all!

                                                • 21. Re: Direct access to Camera Raw
                                                  Level 4

                                                  Hudechrome wrote:

                                                   

                                                  …a good guy, except when he trashes you!

                                                   

                                                  Larry, some time ago I came to the realization that some folks are already in the trash, so there's no need for me to bother with them.  I just ignore them.

                                                   

                                                  As for Apple, neither the MacBooks nor the iMacs come close to the desktop Mac Pros.  The screens are the deal breakers.  They're just too glossy and oversaturated, very good for watching movies (if you're into that kind of thing—which I'm not) but not really suitable for critical color work.  The desktop Mac Pros coupled with the top-of-the line NEC monitors are a dream come through.

                                                   

                                                  However, there's a very dark cloud rapidly approaching in the Mac world: Lion (OS X 10.7)  .  It makes me doubly glad that I stayed at Tiger 10.4.11, even if it can't run Photoshop 12.x.  If I'm still kicking then, I might consider getting a Windows box if and when Photoshop 13.x is released.

                                                   

                                                   

                                                  ____________

                                                  Wo Tai Lao Le

                                                  我太老了

                                                  • 22. Re: Direct access to Camera Raw
                                                    Level 4

                                                    … the latest Photoshop…

                                                     

                                                    …is hardly worth running—except for ACR.

                                                    • 23. Re: Direct access to Camera Raw
                                                      Yammer Level 4

                                                      Tai Lao wrote:


                                                      Larry, some time ago I came to the realization that some folks are already in the trash, so there's no need for me to bother with them.  I just ignore them.

                                                       

                                                      I was someone who was regularly on the receiving end of that abuse. By your logic, that must mean that I'm "in the trash", which I presume means "worthless" or "rubbish". Naturally, I can't agree with the conclusion. I just thought he was rude.

                                                      • 24. Re: Direct access to Camera Raw
                                                        Hudechrome Level 2

                                                        Interesting comment about the next Mac OS. What's it's problem?

                                                         

                                                        I would not do the MacBook either if I did go that direction. My friend's MacBook simply allowed me to have some hands on experience with the system.

                                                         

                                                        As for CS5, I had no need for it per se, as in I need it because my camera isn't included in the older system, but I got it anyway, partially because of the improved ACR, but also Content Aware. It changed the whole workflow with stitched images.

                                                        • 25. Re: Direct access to Camera Raw
                                                          Noel Carboni Level 7

                                                          Tai Lao wrote:


                                                          ...some folks...

                                                           

                                                          And here all this time I had thought this was a forum for sharing ideas, not jabbing at people.

                                                           

                                                          Tai Lao wrote:


                                                          …is hardly worth running

                                                           

                                                          Now that you've said that, I promise I will think of you, Ramon/Tai, whenever I convert a raw file, I'll pity you when I save a bunch of time using Content Aware Fill, and when I make images look more striking using Image - Adjust - HDR Toning I will think "If only Ramon/Tai could see how great this came out."

                                                           

                                                          I'll even make a puppet in your likeness and warp it if you want...  That would be fun! 

                                                           

                                                          -Noel

                                                          • 26. Re: Direct access to Camera Raw
                                                            Hudechrome Level 2

                                                            I dunno about Puppet Warp. Haven't figured out how and where I could actually use it. I don't do cartoons.

                                                            • 27. Re: Direct access to Camera Raw
                                                              Level 4

                                                              Content Aware Fill is by no means new nor exclusive to Photoshop 12.x.  It has been available for a very long time in Photoshop's earlier versions through the Alien Skin Smart Fill filter, part of Image Doctor.  It works substantially better than Photoshop's newly implemented feature in side-by-side comparison.

                                                               

                                                              It's also available at no cost in the free GIMP.

                                                               

                                                              I cannot conceive of any use I would ever have for Puppet Warp or Puppet Anything.

                                                               

                                                              HDR in all its manifestations makes me physically ill.

                                                               

                                                              So, that leaves just noise handling in ACR as a lone desirable new feature in Ps 12.x, and I suppose that is indeed important for anyone with a Canon or similarly noisy camera, which I don't have.

                                                               

                                                               

                                                               

                                                              ____________

                                                              Wo Tai Lao Le

                                                              我太老了

                                                              • 28. Re: Direct access to Camera Raw
                                                                Level 4

                                                                Hudechrome wrote:

                                                                 

                                                                Interesting comment about the next Mac OS. What's it's problem?…

                                                                 

                                                                Larry, Lion is being dumbed down to match the look and feel of the iPad and the iPhone, to the point that some essential directories are not accessible to the user any longer, such as the User Library, where Photoshop and many other applications store a bunch of user-defined stuff like brushes and the like.  Adobe and other developers are voicing their objections, let's hope that plenty of beta testers also report the real difficulties it's creating for users.

                                                                 

                                                                 

                                                                 

                                                                ____________

                                                                Wo Tai Lao Le

                                                                我太老了

                                                                • 29. Re: Direct access to Camera Raw
                                                                  Noel Carboni Level 7
                                                                  function(){return A.apply(null,[this].concat($A(arguments)))}

                                                                  Tai Lao wrote:


                                                                  Lion is being dumbed down

                                                                   

                                                                  Wow, learn something new every day...  I wouldn't have thought dumbing down a user interface beyond what OSX already provided was even possible.  What's next?  A "one button" keyboard and a "no button" mouse?

                                                                   

                                                                  I hear there's a guy named "Doc Brown" teaching Photoshop for Mac.  Is this him?

                                                                   

                                                                  http://www.criticalgamers.com/archives/pictures/DocBrownB.6.14.06.jpg

                                                                   

                                                                  Just funnin' wif ya. 

                                                                   

                                                                  FYI, in all seriousness I'm going to have a nice Windows workstation for sale soon if you want to step over to the Dark Side.  C'mon over!  We have cookies!

                                                                   

                                                                  -Noel

                                                                  • 30. Re: Direct access to Camera Raw
                                                                    Hudechrome Level 2

                                                                    John my friend also thinks the current version is dumbing down. He will most likely skip the upgrade.

                                                                     

                                                                    As for Content Aware, It works 99% perfect, which is, of course, subjective as to what constitutes 99%! But the times it isn't perfect I use either clone or the healing brush, usually cone is better because it is tighter.

                                                                     

                                                                    NowI use either Nik Dfine for noise or DXO, especially for initial corrections. DXO gets it right one click.

                                                                     

                                                                    A third possibility for Nikon is Capture NX2. It does noise and sharpening as well, single click. I hope they also sharpen and noise control based on actual optical characteristics of the sensors and lenses, as does DXO.

                                                                     

                                                                    Moving a bunch of sliders each and every time I use ACR for noise and sharpening is a gumption destroyer. And sharpening depending on the output of casual, uncontrolled measurements and their environment put me to rout! Then I get to decide, by eye, things like CA, again each and every time.

                                                                     

                                                                    I am evaluating the Nik Silver Efx software. They have some really interesting controls, but this software shows up ANY sharpening applied before their b&w conversion, big time. I thought it was them, but examining critically an sharpened vs unsharpened image showed my that SE2 was simply doing it's job.

                                                                     

                                                                    I believe it also shows up using CS5 b&w conversion but I was not so aware of the reasons for it.

                                                                     

                                                                    In a nutshell, we have a long ways to go.

                                                                    • 31. Re: Direct access to Camera Raw
                                                                      Andrew_Hart Level 2

                                                                      Yammer P wrote:

                                                                       

                                                                      If you go into Bridge's preferences, on the General tab, you see "double-click edits camera raw settings in bridge". If you tick this, double-clicking an image in Bridge will load ACR 32-bit hosted by Bridge - equivalent to typing Ctrl-R. If you clear the tick, double-clicking an image will load it in ACR hosted by Photoshop - equivalent to typing Ctrl-O. Photoshop 64-bit is loaded, unless 32-bit is already open.

                                                                       

                                                                      Once edited, if you click "Done" you're either left in Photoshop or Bridge, depending on which application hosts ACR. That's also a good indicator.

                                                                      One interesting difference is that, after opening a Raw file in ACR hosted by Ps x64, clicking Done, AFTER MAKING NO USER EDITS in ACR, will end with Bridge showing that the file has in fact been edited in ACR (the double up-arrow in a circle icon appears in the top right corner). Same thing happens if you open the Raw file in ACR hosted by 32-bit Ps.

                                                                       

                                                                      If you open a Raw file in ACR hosted by Bridge, however, again having made no user edits, clicking Done does not display the edited in ACR icon.

                                                                       

                                                                      Presumeably, this means that hosting ACR in Ps x64  or Ps x86 applies the the default ACR adjustments whereas hosting ACR in Bridge does not. Or am I missing something?

                                                                       

                                                                      Perhaps it does not matter unless you want to take the apparently ACR edited Raw file into other software which recognizes those edits and thus will not function as expected.

                                                                       

                                                                      Message was edited by: Andrew_Hart

                                                                      • 32. Re: Direct access to Camera Raw
                                                                        Level 4

                                                                        Hudechrome wrote:

                                                                         

                                                                        …In a nutshell, we have a long ways to go.

                                                                         

                                                                         

                                                                        Larry, I couldn't agree with you more.  Hardware —digital cameras and computers— and software may be out of diapers, but they're still using walkers to learn how to get around by themselves. 

                                                                         

                                                                        On the other hand, looking back, we can't deny that we have come a looooong way already. 

                                                                         

                                                                        Re your sharpening woes, I stopped fretting about that in Camera Raw as soon as I decided I was thoroughly convinced that I couldn't match the ease and the consistent quality of results that I get from Pixelgenius' PhotoKit Sharpener.  Additionally, the latest upgrade is simply phenomenal.  I don't doubt that, with a lot of effort and with skills and patience much greater than mine, there may be some folks who can match  and perhaps even surpass the results I get from PK Sharpener, but the effort hardly seems worth it.

                                                                         

                                                                        Hudechrome wrote:

                                                                         

                                                                        …As for Content Aware, It works 99% perfect, which is, of course, subjective as to what constitutes 99%! But the times it isn't perfect I use either clone or the healing brush, usually cone is better because it is tighter…

                                                                         

                                                                        I can honestly say the same thing about Alien Skin's implementation as well as the GIMPs.  No biggie there.

                                                                         

                                                                         

                                                                        Hudechrome wrote:

                                                                         

                                                                        John my friend also thinks the current version is dumbing down. He will most likely skip the upgrade…

                                                                         

                                                                        Well, it won't get any better after Lion.  The current thinking at Apple appears to be that, if it's not iPad-like, it just ain't cool. 

                                                                         

                                                                         

                                                                         

                                                                        ____________

                                                                        Wo Tai Lao Le

                                                                        我太老了

                                                                        • 33. Re: Direct access to Camera Raw
                                                                          Level 4

                                                                          Noel Carboni wrote:

                                                                           

                                                                          …Is this him?…

                                                                           

                                                                          English major?  Who'da thunk it!

                                                                           

                                                                          No, him no be nobody I recognize.

                                                                          • 34. Re: Direct access to Camera Raw
                                                                            Yammer Level 4

                                                                            Andrew_Hart wrote:


                                                                            One interesting difference is that, after opening a Raw file in ACR hosted by Ps x64, clicking Done, AFTER MAKING NO USER EDITS in ACR, will end with Bridge showing that the file has in fact been edited in ACR (the double up-arrow in a circle icon appears in the top right corner). Same thing happens if you open the Raw file in ACR hosted by 32-bit Ps.

                                                                             

                                                                            I never noticed that before, but yes, you are correct.

                                                                             

                                                                            My guess is that hosting ACR in Bridge means that Bridge is fully aware of any changes to settings; whereas hosting ACR in Photoshop means that Bridge is unaware if any settings have been changed, and so has to assume they probably have.

                                                                             

                                                                            I haven't really thought this through, and I'm inclined to think that this is rubbish, because Bridge will generate the image thumbnail and preview when brought to the fore again, so it has ample chance to check for changes. On the other hand, I suspect that this check may be left out for speed/simplicity.

                                                                            • 35. Re: Direct access to Camera Raw
                                                                              Hudechrome Level 2

                                                                              Not exactly sharpening woes, Ramon, sharpening investigations.

                                                                               

                                                                              When Photokit sharpener first came out, I looked at it and it was a step forward, but I didn't use it because it required b&w to be converted to RGB, tripling my storage needs, as at that time my work was derived from b&w film, and storage was not a incidental matter as to costs. Since then I haven't looked again and they are on my list to investigate.

                                                                               

                                                                              So far, I have not found a single sharpener system that does not do it's job without exceeding critical damping or put it another way, whose sharpening function is strictly Gaussian.

                                                                              • 36. Re: Direct access to Camera Raw
                                                                                Hudechrome Level 2

                                                                                I concur. But when opening a RAW image and it's dupe, one using Bridge the other Photoshop, without any changes to the default settings, they are essentially identical.

                                                                                • 37. Re: Direct access to Camera Raw
                                                                                  Jeff Schewe Level 5

                                                                                  Hudechrome wrote:

                                                                                   

                                                                                  When Photokit sharpener first came out, I looked at it and it was a step forward, but I didn't use it because it required b&w to be converted to RGB, tripling my storage needs, as at that time my work was derived from b&w film, and storage was not a incidental matter as to costs. Since then I haven't looked again and they are on my list to investigate.

                                                                                   

                                                                                  PhotoKit Sharpener 2 can now work with either RGB or Grayscale images...no Lab nor CMYK though.

                                                                                  • 38. Re: Direct access to Camera Raw
                                                                                    Hudechrome Level 2

                                                                                    Dead wrong!

                                                                                     

                                                                                    I just D/l the trial and I have to convert to RGB.

                                                                                    • 39. Re: Direct access to Camera Raw
                                                                                      Hudechrome Level 2

                                                                                      Oops! My Bad! I d/l the color kit, not the sharpening. Don't know how that happened, so I'll go back and look.

                                                                                       

                                                                                      The download title says Photokit_129_Installer, which means nothing to me as to figuring out what I actually am installing. Epson is similar, with numbers instead of names Makes it $%^& hard to find what you want in case of re-install.

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