11 Replies Latest reply on Mar 11, 2011 1:00 PM by Jim_Simon

    RAID 0 Striping to improve performance

    mdubuque Level 1

      Good morning,

       

      I have 4 drives on a Mac Pro 2008 without the Mercury playback engine.

       

      A friend recommended that I employ RAID 0 striping to improve my performance, although my performance seems satisfactory and above average.

       

      Is he correct?  Would this mostly be evident by shorter rendering times?

       

      I don't render much, I was told, perhaps incorrectly, that too  much rendering can cause generation loss.

       

      Any thoughts?

       

      Thanks,

       

      matt dubuque 100 trees

        • 1. Re: RAID 0 Striping to improve performance
          the_wine_snob Level 9

          Matt,

           

          I would consider RAID in a 0 configuration for the video media drive, the audio media drive, and probably for the Export destination drive.

           

          I would not consider it for the system drive.

           

          Harm Millaard has a good article on RAID.

           

          Good luck,

           

          Hunt

          • 2. Re: RAID 0 Striping to improve performance
            JaysonM-Y-ONw4w8

            LOL hunt, don't you mean for media you don't mind loosing? Like renders, Page and Cache?

            Two small drives in raid 0 for the os aren't a problem for me bacause the only thing I keep on my C drive is stuff I don't even backup when I feel I wanna reinstall the OS.

            Wait, you're on OSX? didn't see that. I would not recommend putting all the drives in 0. That's like keeping your money in the oven. Sure you know where to find every dollar(at good read and write speeds lol), but when something happens and sets it ablaze, you'll lose everything.

             

            Message was edited by: JaysonM-Y

            • 3. Re: RAID 0 Striping to improve performance
              Jim_Simon Level 9

              I'm not a fan of RAID 0 myself, especially as the world moves to tapeless media, which has no inherent backup on a shelf you can just recapture if one drive fails and you lose everything on both drives.

              • 4. Re: RAID 0 Striping to improve performance
                JCschild Level 3

                thats what a back up drive(s) is for

                 

                DV/HDV does not need raid  AVCHD etc does

                 

                Scott

                ADK

                • 5. Re: RAID 0 Striping to improve performance
                  mdubuque Level 1

                  Perhaps I should add that I am, to my understanding, importing H.264 1920 x 1080 natively, imported from a Canon 5D Mark II.  I don't know if that influences the determination as to whether I should use RAID 0.

                   

                  Matt

                  • 6. Re: RAID 0 Striping to improve performance
                    Jim_Simon Level 9

                    DV/HDV does not need raid  AVCHD etc does

                     

                    Just for reader's clarification, all three have about the same data rate and will perform about the same at the drive level.  Any RAID required for AVCHD is strictly for security reasons, not drive speed, as tapeless media obviously has no tape backup.  (In which case, RAID 3 is the best option.)

                    • 7. Re: RAID 0 Striping to improve performance
                      JCschild Level 3

                      are you about to tell me that raid 0 is not a speed increase for AVCHD? or that its not needed?

                      are you saying my renders will not be faster with raid0?

                       

                      as you would be wrong on all accounts.. DV/HDV has far less drive speed requirements than AVCHD

                      conversely anything past 2 sets 4 drive raid 0 is pointless as well.. (for AVCHD and similar codecs)

                       

                      2 sets of 2 drive raid 0 is a very nice sweet spot for those doing AVCHD unless doing massive layers/effects then 4 drive raid 0..

                       

                      Scott

                      ADK

                      • 8. Re: RAID 0 Striping to improve performance
                        JCschild Level 3

                        i will let Eric set you straight on the raid 3 vs 5,6...

                        as if that hasnt been done to death all ready..

                        • 9. Re: RAID 0 Striping to improve performance
                          Jim_Simon Level 9

                          are you about to tell me that raid 0 is not a speed increase for AVCHD?

                           

                          Of course not.  A RAID 0 will likely always outperform a single drive for throughput speed.  But that is not the only critical factor here.

                           

                           

                          or that its not needed?

                           

                          That part I am saying.  AVCHD, HDV and DV all have pretty much the same data rate, around 25 Mb/s, and will all perform similarly at the drive level.  The far larger difference between the formats is the CPU horsepower required.

                           

                           

                          are you saying my renders will not be faster with raid0?

                           

                          That will depend on whether or not a user's current system can keep the CPU fed.  If it's running at 100% with a single drive, then it's entirely possible a RAID 0 may not help much at all, as the CPU will be the bottleneck.

                           

                           

                          DV/HDV has far less drive speed requirements than AVCHD

                           

                          Actually, DV and HDV have slightly higher bandwidth requirements.  They run at 25 Mb/s, whereas AVCHD at it's best runs at a max of 24, and a nominal of 21.

                           

                           

                          2 sets of 2 drive raid 0 is a very nice sweet spot for those doing AVCHD

                           

                          It'll work, sure.  But I'm just not a proponent of RAID 0, where you have twice the chance of a drive failure and you lose everything if one goes.  I feel a RAID 3 offers the best balance between performance and redundancy for video editing, and does not require the user to remember to back up.  The security is built-in.

                          • 10. Re: RAID 0 Striping to improve performance
                            JCschild Level 3

                            Hey Jim,

                             

                            agree with you on the system needing to be balanced.

                            no point to raid 0 if you have an old or slow CPU.

                            on the other hand anything thats a 760 or higher would not be that.

                             

                            diagree that editing with AVCHD is not harder on the system than DV including the drives.

                            there is more to it than plain bit rate. the compression is higher by far. when you start adding layers/effects the raid drives show better performance vs single drives.

                             

                            while someone can get away with single drives its definately a slower workflow and with drive costs being absurdly cheap makes no sense whatsoever.

                             

                            concerning raid.. or failure theerof.

                            let me ask you this?

                            are you working with single drives?  what happens when that single drive fails? did you have a back up? single or raid you still need a backup of tapeless...

                             

                            same applies for raid 0 you had better have a back up its no different that a single drive. the potential for failure is double? not really.

                            and again your backed up so who cares.. (well drive failures suck period) FYI we have very very few raid 0 failures. we seem to see a drive die in the big arrays more often.

                             

                            is a parity raid better? absolutely! but that requires a good controller  regardless of 3,5, or 6.

                            and this still should have a backup plan.

                            aside from having redundacy most people have no need for large raid arrays

                            the added cost of the controller and the parity drives put this luxury out of manys price range.

                             

                            whilst 2 pair raid 0 is very affordable with onboard controller.  (and a 2TB ext drive for back up)

                             

                            also as mentioned really anything past the 2 sets raid 0 becomes money spent for nothing for avchd, XDcam etc.

                             

                            so for a good majority this is why raid 0 is recommended.  if it were up to me everyone whould have an 8 drive raid 5

                             

                             

                             

                            Scott

                            ADK

                            • 11. Re: RAID 0 Striping to improve performance
                              Jim_Simon Level 9
                              when you start adding layers/effects the raid drives show better performance vs single drives.

                               

                              I'll give you the layers.  But that will apply equally to DV and HDV.  At a certain point, the drive just won't be able to keep up and you'll need more speed.  But with a single drive, there is no issue at all running up to 4 layers for the standard multicam sequence, which is probably sufficient for most users.  Going to 8, 10 or more layers on a regular basis, then you may well need faster drive performance.

                               

                              Effects won't make any difference in the drive throughput.  That's specific to CPU/GPU capabilities.

                               

                              single or raid you still need a backup of tapeless...

                               

                              Agreed.  My point was that with RAID 3 (or even 5 and 6), you get that backup built-in.  No actions required on the part of the editor to ensure data safety.  With 2 RAID 0's, assuming primary and backup, you actually have to remember to back up.  It'll work, but I feel it's more of a hassle than the RAID options with redundancy built-in.

                               

                               

                              the potential for failure is double? not really.

                               

                              No, the potential for data loss is double, because you now have two drives to worry about.  If either fails, you lose everything on both.

                               

                               

                              2 pair raid 0 is very affordable with onboard controller.

                               

                              I'll grant you that one.  But you can get 2TB of fast, RAID 3 protected storage for about $500.  If that's within a user's budget, I still feel it's the preferable solution to 2 RAID 0's.  And for most users, even a single drive will be plenty fast enough for multiple streams.  So if you want to go the manual backup route required by 2 RAID 0's, you can make it even cheaper and simpler by using just two single drives, a primary and a backup.

                               

                              In short, I feel it's a better recommendation for the budget user to have just two single drives, with the next step for power users being a RAID 3.  Skip the RAID 0 step altogether.