10 Replies Latest reply on Mar 23, 2011 9:59 AM by Jay Gladwell

    Is Premiere Pro CS5 Colour Managed?

    nightbreath_

      Hi there,

       

      I'm having troubles with colour management in Premiere Pro on Windows 7 using my wide-gamut display.

       

      You may know that Windows 7 doesn't support wide-gamut displays and colours become over-saturated. I've configured colour correction in my media player using this instruction: http://forums.overclockers.com.au/showthread.php?t=723315, and I use colour aware software (i.e. software that uses colour profiles, such as Photoshop, Firefox, IrfanView, etc.), but Premiere Pro doesn't seem to use my ICC profile for video playback.

       

      When I export the video after editing it looks fine in Media Player Classic.

       

      Is there something I can do to get proper colours in Premiere Pro?

        • 1. Re: Is Premiere Pro CS5 Colour Managed?
          Jay Gladwell Level 1

          Don't have an answer for you, but I'm in the same boat you are.

           

          Just got the Dell U2711--colors are way over saturated, especially the reds. The Spyder3 Pro didn't help much. Yes, I understand this monitor is not for color grading, but some semblance of normal color would be appreciated.

          • 2. Re: Is Premiere Pro CS5 Colour Managed?
            Jim_Simon Level 8

            Is there something I can do to get proper colours in Premiere Pro?

             

            Yes.  Always use a properly calibrated external TV (not a computer monitor).

            • 3. Re: Is Premiere Pro CS5 Colour Managed?
              jkosmicki Level 2

              Premiere is not color managed, but it does not necessarily need to be.

              Windows 7 does support wide-gamut displays.

              If you are going to do serious color work, then you should have use a 3rd party video card like a Black Magic DeckLink and use a broadcast quality monitor separate from your desktop monitors. I use both a Dell U2420 and an HP LP2475w, both great for broadcast.

              Broadcast (TV), DVD and Blu-ray, web is all sRGB and your monitors should be set to that, either in the hardware setup or with an ICC profile. Both of my Dell and HP monitors can quickly switch between sRGB and aRGB (wide gamut) so I can monitor how my output will look on either. 90% of the time my output is targeted to sRGB.

              1 person found this helpful
              • 4. Re: Is Premiere Pro CS5 Colour Managed?
                nightbreath_ Level 1

                >> If you are going to do serious color work, then you should have use a 3rd party video card like a Black Magic DeckLink

                 

                This is just a hobby. I want to push everything I can out from my DSLR camera.

                 

                 

                >> Windows 7 does support wide-gamut displays.

                 

                I could've messed the meaning by saying wrong words. I meant that wide gamut support is not native as it is in MacOS where all programs inherit system colour settings. In Windows I need to use only those programs that use colour profiles.

                 

                Please correct me if I'm wrong.

                 

                 

                >> Both of my Dell and HP monitors can quickly switch between sRGB and aRGB  (wide gamut) so I can monitor how my output will look on either.

                 

                I own HP LP2475w too, but the sRGB mode doesn't seem to change anything. Could you confirm swithing to sRGB mode on HP works for you?

                • 5. Re: Is Premiere Pro CS5 Colour Managed?
                  jkosmicki Level 2

                  From Microsoft:

                  Support for color depths of 30 and 48 bits is included, along with the wide color gamut scRGB (which for HDMI 1.3 can be converted and output as xvYCC). The video modes supported in Windows 7 are 16-bit sRGB, 24-bit sRGB, 30-bit sRGB, 30-bit with extended color gamut sRGB, and 48-bit scRGB.

                   

                  Basically any Windows program can choose to use read a color profile or not, if Premiere does not use the system's ICC profile and displays video at full gamut, then you need to use a third-party output card and dedicated video monitor, or if you don't want to have the added expense and hassle of an add-on card, then use computer monitors that have the good color setup built into the hardware. The LP2475w definitely does, if you have the monitor set to sRGB and the colors are still too saturated, then you probably need to adjust your saturation and contrast settings on the monitor.

                   

                  I can confirm switching between the sRGB setting and the 6500k setting (the monitor's full gamut) does make a noticeable change for me. It's not huge, certainly as not as much as with my Dell U2410 which seems to have a wider gamut, but it is there.

                   

                  Accurate monitor setup is a real pain and there seems to be a lot of gray area when it comes to information. I spend a lot of  time trying to dial in my 2 edit bays.

                  1 person found this helpful
                  • 6. Re: Is Premiere Pro CS5 Colour Managed?
                    color_minded

                    Greetings everyone,  This is quite a topic and I'll try and share my insights.

                     

                    First, I heard someone blabbing about the Dell U2410's sRGB emulation mode.  It's OK, but not really good enough.

                     

                    The biggest problem you will face is your wide gamut color primaries of the display.  Making an .icc profile will not be good enough, unless the program is capable of conforming a high gamut monitor's primaries, into the sRGB ones.  For instance, Media Player Classic Homecinema DOES DO THIS, if the option is enabled + proper gpu + and playback filters.  For instance, using a color calibrator to make an .icc profile, applying that profile to the video card, IS NOT GOOD ENOUGH.  The reason is, again, the color primaries.  When you calibrate your monitor, to, say, "2.2 gamma," you are only conforming the gamma curve of each of the primary colors, and not constricting the wide gamut primaries to sRGB ones.

                     

                    So, say I have a Dell u2410 (of which I own 6, well I don't own them, but I manage the workstations) and create an .icc profile with a colorimeter and apply that profile to my video card (I like using windows 7's built in profile loader, personally), all programs should now be displayed with the gamma corrected gamma curves that my profile loader has loaded into my video card (or monitor, if your monitor is super-pro.)  However, programs that are NOT color aware will NOT conform the wide gamut primaries to sRGB ones.

                     

                    What this means for non-color-aware video editing: If you have loaded the calibrated .icc profile (2.2 gamma) to your video card, you can LOOSELY judge exposure, since your gamma should be properly corrected.  YOU CAN NOT PROPERLY JUDGE COLOR, PERIOD.  However, even judgeing exposure on a 2.2gamma calibrated wide gamut display is wrong in the end, since the color saturation of your wide gamut primaries will effect the "brightness" of the video (greater saturation produces darker colors).

                     

                    Your best solution is this: don't worry about getting a super-duper broadcast monitor and related SDI out card.  Instead take the poor man's route.  Get a monitor like: http://www.tftcentral.co.uk/reviews/nec_ea232wmi.htm

                     

                    Notice in the review how closely the primaries match the sRGB colorspace.  All you basically have to do, at this point, is load a calibrated .icc profile into your video card, and bam, you have a solution which is VERY acceptably close to true reference. 

                     

                    For the person who was lauding the the u2410, take a look at this review, and notice the section about the sRGB emulation mode, you'll see that the red primary is still too saturated, and yes, it is noticeable. http://www.tftcentral.co.uk/reviews/dell_u2410.htm

                     

                    Finally, I'll note that TECHNICALLY, sRGB's defined gamma function is NOT the same as the official rec.709 specification.  What sRGB shares with rec.709 are the color primaries and white point.

                     

                    Much more can be said, but what I outlined above, as a "poor man's color management," will be good for almost anything but the most demanding jobs, or minds.

                     

                    thanks for listening.

                     

                    ps: I expect the pro's to flame and complain, but some of us simply cant afford the real deal.

                    • 7. Re: Is Premiere Pro CS5 Colour Managed?
                      color_minded Level 1

                      Oh yeah, I should add these two, too.

                       

                      For the HP LP2475, its sRGB emulation mode is absolute TRASH, and anyone claming this monitor is good for broadcast must be crazy, unless, again, you can somehow conform its wide gamut primaries.

                       

                      http://www.tftcentral.co.uk/reviews/hp_lp2475w.htm

                       

                      And to the person with the Dell u2711, your sRGB emulation mode is much better, but the u2410's is better.  If you do plan to use these decent sRGB modes of the 2410 or the 2711, make sure create a profile both for the exact mode you're working in.  So, generally, I have a .icc profile for the "standard, high gamut mode", and another one for the sRGB mode.  I switch the .icc profile, along with the corresponding monitor setting, as needed.

                       

                      Here's the calibration report for the 2711: http://www.tftcentral.co.uk/reviews/dell_u2711.htm

                      • 8. Re: Is Premiere Pro CS5 Colour Managed?
                        Jay Gladwell Level 1

                        Thanks for the information, CM, truly appreciated!

                         

                        But I have to ask... Are all U2711s "created equal"? Will the calibration for one work for all?

                        • 9. Re: Is Premiere Pro CS5 Colour Managed?
                          color_minded Level 1

                          Generally not. You'll need to profile each screen separately.

                          • 10. Re: Is Premiere Pro CS5 Colour Managed?
                            Jay Gladwell Level 1

                            That stands to reason.

                             

                            Thanks.