31 Replies Latest reply on Mar 28, 2011 3:13 AM by eVandal

# Strobed H.264 compression via AME. PPro with AE via Dynamic Link.

Help me Adobe wan Kenobi you're my only hope!

Video codec: XDcam MPEG-4 Video, Linear PCM  1440x1080

Sequence settings match above

After Effects: photo animation embedded in Premiere timeline via Dynamic Link

When I render out an H.264 compressed mp4 with AME the video becomes very strobed, dropped frames etc. See video here: http://vimeo.com/20786336

The AE timeline settings are the same as the PP sequence.

The render times are also huge.  I put this down to the photo's being quite large and so have resized them and am currently working on another render.

I've used, in past attempts, Apple's Intermediate codec and have had exactly the same results.  I since learned that Adobe do not support the AIC and so am trying to find a better solution.

When I've exported just the video part of the PP timeline with the same H.264 /MP4 settings the video renders out just fine.  As soon as the animation is included it looks like my subject is having a strobe induced eplieptic fit.

Model Name: Mac Pro

Model Identifier: MacPro4,1

Processor Name: Quad-Core Intel Xeon

Processor Speed: 2.26 GHz

Number Of Processors: 2

Total Number Of Cores: 8

L2 Cache (per core): 256 KB

L3 Cache (per processor): 8 MB

Memory: 12 GB

Processor Interconnect Speed: 5.86 GT/s

Boot ROM Version: MP41.0081.B08

SMC Version (system): 1.39f5

SMC Version (processor tray): 1.39f5

NVIDIA GeForce GT 120:

Chipset Model: NVIDIA GeForce GT 120

Type: GPU

Bus: PCIe

Slot: Slot-1

PCIe Lane Width: x16

VRAM (Total): 512 MB

Vendor: NVIDIA (0x10de)

Device ID: 0x0640

Revision ID: 0x00a1

ROM Revision: 3386

• ###### 1. Re: Strobed H.264 compression via AME. PPro with AE via Dynamic Link.

Welcome to the forum.

I just watched the Vimeo link.  The video is clean and smooth.  The motion of the still image layers is a bit stuttered, but not terrible.  So, IMO, there's nothing to fix in the video portion.  It might be worth trying to smooth out the still image animations.

-Jeff

EDIT: Just to be sure, I watched it again.  There are 2 or 3 places where it looks like you left in a jump cut, but the audio continues uninterrupted.  Is that the issue you're describing?

• ###### 2. Re: Strobed H.264 compression via AME. PPro with AE via Dynamic Link.

Hi Jeff,

Thanks for your prompt response.  I was surprised to see it had smoothed out myself. It is badly out of sync though.  The animation is smooth.  I am currently replacing the video with a screen rec of what I've been seeing so that you can get a proper idea of the problem.

Thanks again for your quick reply the people of Naboo will be pleased.

Eavan

• ###### 3. Re: Strobed H.264 compression via AME. PPro with AE via Dynamic Link.

OK, I see the problem--if you download the original and look at it in QuickTime (I'm assuming that's what you're using for local playback), the playback goes all seizurey (I made that up). Is this what you're seeing?

If I playback the file in another player, like Windows Media Player or Media Player Classic (I'm using Windows), the file looks... "fine." I say "fine," because there is something definitely weird going on.

Your video is exported at 25fps, which makes sense as I assume you're in Europe. However, looking at the cadence of the video, something is very odd--to me, it looks like you shot at 50fps, and then edited or at least exported in 25fps. The result is sort of a stuttered look, even though it's not as weird looking as the QT Player playback.

Can you confirm your shooting and editing frame rates? I suspect the problem lies there...

• ###### 4. Re: Strobed H.264 compression via AME. PPro with AE via Dynamic Link.

Hi Jeff & Colin,

Thanks for your prompt response.  I was surprised to see it had smoothed out myself. It is badly out of sync though.  The animation is smooth.  I am currently replacing the video with a screen rec of what I've been seeing so that you can get a proper idea of the problem. There are a couple of jump cuts in the edit.  It was in sync.  It renders out as an F4V just fine.

It was shot as PAL HD XDCAM 1080i and dropped on a the seq icon to make a seq of the same settings. The AE project comp settings were created in a similar fashion.

The AME export is still going after 3.5 hrs for a 1.5 min edit with 26secs of animated photo's.  This is with the resized images.  As I mentioned in my original post when I render out the video part of the edit with the same mp4 settings there is no problem with either strobing or sync.

I'm uploading the f4v render which rendered no problem and stayed in sync. http://vimeo.com/20788767

Thanks again for your quick reply the people of Naboo will be pleased.

Eavan

• ###### 5. Re: Strobed H.264 compression via AME. PPro with AE via Dynamic Link.

I don't see any problems at all with either version when watched in my browser.  Even the sync is fine on both.

• ###### 6. Re: Strobed H.264 compression via AME. PPro with AE via Dynamic Link.

Hi Jim,

Try downloading it and perhaps you'll see the issue.

Thanks for taking the time to check it out.

For the time being I'm rendering out TIFF sequences instead of using dynamic link.  The export times have improved when I use this on the PP seq and export the video.  I exported just the tiff seq with the same H.264 mp4 settings and it renders out fine.  When I rendered out the complete video I again get the strobing issue.

I checked the strobing video using QT7 and looking at the file info the video is showing a frame rate of 25.01 fps.  I believe this is where the issue is arising from. On checking all the exports that I've done so far all the one's with the strobing have this strange frame rate.  Uploading it to Vimeo seems to conform it to 25fps again.

I don't have Cinema Tools is there another software that will conform frame rates?

Should I file a bug report?

Thanks,

Eavan

• ###### 7. Re: Strobed H.264 compression via AME. PPro with AE via Dynamic Link.

Is there any way to remove the post with my contact information on it?

Thanks

• ###### 8. Re: Strobed H.264 compression via AME. PPro with AE via Dynamic Link.

Done.

• ###### 9. Re: Strobed H.264 compression via AME. PPro with AE via Dynamic Link.

Thanks Jeff!

• ###### 10. Re: Strobed H.264 compression via AME. PPro with AE via Dynamic Link.

Eavan,

I did an experiement with the original MP4 file. I demuxed it into its elementary streams of AVC video and AAC audio, and then remuxed it into a new MP4. The result is a file that plays back perfectly in QuickTime Player (no jittery, stuttering playback). This indicates that the encoding itself is fine--and that there is likely nothing wrong with your project--but something is amiss in the multiplexing of the file.

Try the following: do another export using the same project to the same destination, but click the Metadata button in the Export Settings window and change the Export Options to "None." Right now, the metadata is being embedded in the output file--this includes references to all your project materials (I know the names of some of your media )--and I have a theory that this metadata is corrupting the export. When I remux the file, that metadata isn't included in the new MP4, and as mentioned, it plays back fine. It could also be a bug in the way that Premiere/AME muxes some MP4s; I haven't had any problems (or at least noticed any) with exports like this. Of course, I'm working in NTSC, largely, so there is a possibility that this is a PAL-related issue.

I can upload the fixed file if you'd like to take a look.

EDIT: Here's the link to the file on MediaFire: http://www.mediafire.com/?5wnw55q0h3gzoq7

• ###### 11. Re: Strobed H.264 compression via AME. PPro with AE via Dynamic Link.

Hi Colin,

Thanks a mill for taking the time.  That make's sense.  I found that the file that was taking 4 fours + to render yesterday which I cancelled, the resulting incomplete video (80%) was smooth.  I trust you on the fixed file.

The metadata that you're referring to, is it the metadata that I've added in the Dublin Core Description of the raw mp4's or generated by Adobe?

I'll try your suggestion for my next render this evening.

Is there something in this situation that can be reported to Adobe through some channel?

Thanks again,

Eavan

• ###### 12. Re: Strobed H.264 compression via AME. PPro with AE via Dynamic Link.
I found that the file that was taking 4 fours + to render yesterday which I cancelled, the resulting incomplete video (80%) was smooth.

Interesting; that might explain the following...

I ran the original file through MediaInfo, and then did the same with the "fixed" version I remuxed. Here are the reports from each:

ORIGINAL

General
Complete name                    : C:\Users\Colin\Desktop\original.mp4
Format                           : MPEG-4
Format profile                   : Base Media / Version 2
Codec ID                         : mp42
File size                        : 31.7 MiB
Duration                         : 1mn 28s
Overall bit rate                 : 3 001 Kbps
Encoded date                     : UTC 2011-03-07 15:16:44
Tagged date                      : UTC 2011-03-09 13:46:43
©TIM                             : 00:00:00:00
©TSC                             : 25
©TSZ                             : 1

Video
ID                               : 1
Format                           : AVC
Format/Info                      : Advanced Video Codec
Format profile                   : Main@L3.1
Format settings, CABAC           : Yes
Format settings, ReFrames        : 3 frames
Format settings, GOP             : M=4, N=33
Codec ID                         : avc1
Codec ID/Info                    : Advanced Video Coding
Duration                         : 1mn 28s
Duration_LastFrame               : 47h 43mn
Bit rate mode                    : Variable
Bit rate                         : 2 797 Kbps
Width                            : 640 pixels
Height                           : 360 pixels
Display aspect ratio             : 16:9
Frame rate mode                  : Constant
Frame rate                       : 25.000 fps
Standard                         : PAL
Color space                      : YUV
Chroma subsampling               : 4:2:0
Bit depth                        : 8 bits
Scan type                        : Progressive
Bits/(Pixel*Frame)               : 0.486
Stream size                      : 29.5 MiB (93%)
Language                         : English
Encoded date                     : UTC 2011-03-07 15:16:44
Tagged date                      : UTC 2011-03-07 15:16:44

Audio
ID                               : 2
Format                           : AAC
Format/Info                      : Advanced Audio Codec
Format profile                   : LC
Codec ID                         : 40
Duration                         : 1mn 28s
Bit rate mode                    : Variable
Bit rate                         : 192 Kbps
Maximum bit rate                 : 274 Kbps
Channel(s)                       : 2 channels
Channel positions                : Front: L R
Sampling rate                    : 48.0 KHz
Compression mode                 : Lossy
Stream size                      : 2.00 MiB (6%)
Language                         : English
Encoded date                     : UTC 2011-03-07 15:16:44
Tagged date                      : UTC 2011-03-07 15:16:44


FIXED

General
Complete name                    : C:\Users\Colin\Desktop\fixed.mp4
Format                           : MPEG-4
Format profile                   : Base Media
Codec ID                         : isom
File size                        : 31.6 MiB
Duration                         : 1mn 28s
Overall bit rate                 : 2 989 Kbps
Encoded date                     : UTC 2011-03-08 14:28:27
Tagged date                      : UTC 2011-03-08 14:28:27
Writing application              : My MP4Box GUI 0.5.5.4 <http://my-mp4box-gui.zymichost.com>

Video
ID                               : 1
Format                           : AVC
Format/Info                      : Advanced Video Codec
Format profile                   : Main@L3.1
Format settings, CABAC           : Yes
Format settings, ReFrames        : 3 frames
Format settings, GOP             : M=4, N=33
Codec ID                         : avc1
Codec ID/Info                    : Advanced Video Coding
Duration                         : 1mn 28s
Bit rate mode                    : Variable
Bit rate                         : 2 797 Kbps
Maximum bit rate                 : 6 820 Kbps
Width                            : 640 pixels
Height                           : 360 pixels
Display aspect ratio             : 16:9
Frame rate mode                  : Constant
Frame rate                       : 25.000 fps
Standard                         : PAL
Color space                      : YUV
Chroma subsampling               : 4:2:0
Bit depth                        : 8 bits
Scan type                        : Progressive
Bits/(Pixel*Frame)               : 0.486
Stream size                      : 29.5 MiB (94%)
Title                            : Imported with GPAC 0.4.6-DEV (internal rev. 5)
Encoded date                     : UTC 2011-03-08 14:28:27
Tagged date                      : UTC 2011-03-08 14:28:28

Audio
ID                               : 2
Format                           : AAC
Format/Info                      : Advanced Audio Codec
Format profile                   : LC
Codec ID                         : 40
Duration                         : 1mn 28s
Bit rate mode                    : Variable
Bit rate                         : 192 Kbps
Maximum bit rate                 : 196 Kbps
Channel(s)                       : 2 channels
Channel positions                : Front: L R
Sampling rate                    : 48.0 KHz
Compression mode                 : Lossy
Stream size                      : 2.00 MiB (6%)
Title                            : Imported with GPAC 0.4.6-DEV (internal rev. 5)
Encoded date                     : UTC 2011-03-08 14:28:28
Tagged date                      : UTC 2011-03-08 14:28:28


They're predominantly the same--which makes sense, since the streams themselves are identical. However, there is a very strange anomaly in your original file; it's the line that says:

Duration_LastFrame               : 47h 43mn

The fixed file doesn't have this, and I tried doing a quick export similar to your settings, by my export doesn't have that either. This makes me think that perhaps something is corrupted in your sequence or project file, or you have a gap at the end of your sequence that is "framed" by the work area bar. Can you examine the end of your sequence, and see if you see anything amiss?

Also, try exporting just a short section of your sequence, even a second would be OK. If you can upload it, I'd like to take a peek at it.

• ###### 13. Re: Strobed H.264 compression via AME. PPro with AE via Dynamic Link.

There's one already on my Vimeo account: http://vimeo.com/20789825

• ###### 14. Re: Strobed H.264 compression via AME. PPro with AE via Dynamic Link.

Vimeo re-encodes your material, so that does not give relevant information. Only your export is relevant before Vimeo processing. Everything else is potentially a Vimeo problem.

• ###### 15. Re: Strobed H.264 compression via AME. PPro with AE via Dynamic Link.

Vimeo re-encodes your material, so that does not give relevant information. Only your export is relevant before Vimeo processing. Everything else is potentially a Vimeo problem.

Uhmmm... not quite. Vimeo also preserves the original so that you can download it without it being reencoded.

• ###### 16. Re: Strobed H.264 compression via AME. PPro with AE via Dynamic Link.

Eavan,

Here's the MediaInfo report on the partial clip (which does playback fine in QT Player):

General
Complete name                    : C:\Users\Colin\Desktop\partial.mp4
Format                           : MPEG-4
Format profile                   : Base Media / Version 2
Codec ID                         : mp42
File size                        : 4.96 MiB
Duration                         : 12s 928ms
Overall bit rate                 : 3 217 Kbps
Encoded date                     : UTC 2011-03-07 17:05:55
Tagged date                      : UTC 2011-03-07 17:05:55
©TIM                             : 00:00:09:16
©TSC                             : 25
©TSZ                             : 1

Video
ID                               : 1
Format                           : AVC
Format/Info                      : Advanced Video Codec
Format profile                   : Main@L3.1
Format settings, CABAC           : Yes
Format settings, ReFrames        : 3 frames
Format settings, GOP             : M=4, N=33
Codec ID                         : avc1
Codec ID/Info                    : Advanced Video Coding
Duration                         : 12s 880ms
Bit rate mode                    : Variable
Bit rate                         : 3 020 Kbps
Width                            : 640 pixels
Height                           : 360 pixels
Display aspect ratio             : 16:9
Frame rate mode                  : Constant
Frame rate                       : 25.000 fps
Standard                         : PAL
Color space                      : YUV
Chroma subsampling               : 4:2:0
Bit depth                        : 8 bits
Scan type                        : Progressive
Bits/(Pixel*Frame)               : 0.524
Stream size                      : 4.64 MiB (94%)
Language                         : English
Encoded date                     : UTC 2011-03-07 17:05:55
Tagged date                      : UTC 2011-03-07 17:05:55

Audio
ID                               : 2
Format                           : AAC
Format/Info                      : Advanced Audio Codec
Format profile                   : LC
Codec ID                         : 40
Duration                         : 12s 928ms
Bit rate mode                    : Variable
Bit rate                         : 192 Kbps
Maximum bit rate                 : 274 Kbps
Channel(s)                       : 2 channels
Channel positions                : Front: L R
Sampling rate                    : 48.0 KHz
Compression mode                 : Lossy
Stream size                      : 299 KiB (6%)
Language                         : English
Encoded date                     : UTC 2011-03-07 17:05:55
Tagged date                      : UTC 2011-03-07 17:05:55


That "end frame duration" bit isn't in there, so I suspect that whatever is causing that blob of data is causing the issue. It could be the Dynamic Link comp, or it could be (as I mentioned previously), a hole at the end of the sequence that doesn't have any video in it. I'm doing a test to that effect right now...

1 person found this helpful
• ###### 17. Re: Strobed H.264 compression via AME. PPro with AE via Dynamic Link.

Colin: you're being fantastically helpful.

I've had this issue in other renders that have included animation and either rendered files or Dynamic Links.  My normal method of selecting the render area is to us the "End" key on the keyboard, which is represented on an Apple keyboard as an arrow pointing down and to the right: ↘  I presume this should select the last frame.

• ###### 18. Re: Strobed H.264 compression via AME. PPro with AE via Dynamic Link.

No problem, Eavan--that's what we're here for

OK, so I did a test leaving a gap at the end of a sequence; still encoded fine. Actually, it didn't even let me encode the gap... go figure I'm trying now to put a clip past the end of the sequence, and then leave a gap.

Is the animation at the end of your sequence a DL comp, as well?

• ###### 19. Re: Strobed H.264 compression via AME. PPro with AE via Dynamic Link.

The logo animation is compressed with the Animation codec 1920x1080.

So far the other compression types that I have tried that have been connected with this strobing have been Apple Intermediate Codec and a TIFF.  I don't have the problem when converting these to F4V compressed files.

• ###### 20. Re: Strobed H.264 compression via AME. PPro with AE via Dynamic Link.

So far the other compression types that I have tried that have been connected with this strobing have been Apple Intermediate Codec and a TIFF.  I don't have the problem when converting these to F4V compressed files.

Now, you mean with the photo animation, correct? Sorry, trying to keep this all straight in my mind since I'm not looking at the project file

And, just to clarify: it's only when the export seems to venture into the territory of your sequence that is occupied by the DL comp that you encounter the problem, correct?

Again, my apologies for the questions; I'm just trying to wrap my head around the various permutations here.

• ###### 21. Re: Strobed H.264 compression via AME. PPro with AE via Dynamic Link.
Try downloading it and perhaps you'll see the issue.

Can't, not a member.

• ###### 22. Re: Strobed H.264 compression via AME. PPro with AE via Dynamic Link.

Hi Colin,

This strobing has happened with other projects that have contain animations that have either used DL or had been compressed using AIC.

Would a media managed project file help you out?  Do you reckon the project files work cross platform?  I've had some problems working with PC generated proj files on a mac in the past.

• ###### 23. Re: Strobed H.264 compression via AME. PPro with AE via Dynamic Link.

Would a media managed project file help you out?  Do you reckon the project files work cross platform?  I've had some problems working with PC generated proj files on a mac in the past.

Hi Eavan,

Yes, I'd love to look at a project file--both for Premiere and for AE. No need for media (at least at this point), unless you have a fast FTP where you want to dump them. I'll PM you my email address to send the file; they should zip up quite small.

Premiere Pro CS4 and greater projects from the Mac version should cross platform OK; PC-to-Mac also shouldn't be a problem with the later releases, in my experience. I noticed in the metadata of your export that you've been working in, or files have been sourced from, both platforms and various versions. That *shouldn't* be a problem, but we'll see...

• ###### 24. Re: Strobed H.264 compression via AME. PPro with AE via Dynamic Link.

Hello everyone,

I had a similar problem and I could solve it with Colin's solution !  I removed the metadata and the video became fluid. (ok it still drops 2 frames but better than 300xxx!) also the rendering became faster.

And I didn't see it at first, but the video length was also 47 minutes (but actually it's a 2 min video), there is definitely something wrong here and the problem seems the same.

I thought it was a problem with my video player. ( Media Player Classic / Win 7 64 bits)  'cause the video was not fluid with this video player and it shows 47 min  44 sec video length. But plays well in VLC (shows 2 min length video, fluid).  (I tried in quicktime and the video is even worst than with MPC)

It seems that VLC player is able to handle the "broken thing" while others can't. I don't know what happens with this metadata (And I don't know if I need it anyway so I remove it)

Thank you Colin!

And I hope you will solve it too EavanAiken

• ###### 25. Re: Strobed H.264 compression via AME. PPro with AE via Dynamic Link.

Hi Kev,

Well, that's certainly interesting! This has been sort of a half-baked theory of mine, that I've never been able to definitively prove, but your results are lending it some credence. I've had problems where the H.264 MP4s generated by CS5 have been rejected by broadcast stations using a Telestream FlipFactory, and I've attributed it to the metadata injection, but they've been reluctant to let me test the problem. If this solves Eavan's problem (he hasn't mentioned whether he attempted that or not), this would definitely indicate a bug somewhere in the export process, and should definitely be reported: Adobe Feature Request/Bug Report Form

• ###### 26. Re: Strobed H.264 compression via AME. PPro with AE via Dynamic Link.

Yup it seems to be that the metadata set to 'None' does the trick !

Thanks again

• ###### 27. Re: Strobed H.264 compression via AME. PPro with AE via Dynamic Link.

Dang... that's bad news I mean, it's good that we know how to get around it, but this is a pretty major bug, methinks. When you get the time, please file a bug report (Adobe Feature Request/Bug Report Form), as this isn't an acceptable workaround.

I wish I could replicate this here, as I'd be happy to file it, but without all the component parts, it's sort of a crapshoot. I'd really be curious to know where the issue lies: if it's in the MOVs or the Dynamic Link AE comp, or somewhere in the encoding/muxing itself.

Anyway, glad you can at least get up to speed now

• ###### 28. Re: Strobed H.264 compression via AME. PPro with AE via Dynamic Link.

Hi Colin,

I'll file a bug report and perhaps the other person who had the same issue can too.  Tomorrow I can make a media managed project and send it over to you if you wish?

Thanks for solving it !

• ###### 29. Re: Strobed H.264 compression via AME. PPro with AE via Dynamic Link.

Hi Eavan,

That would be great--that way we could confirm if it was truly the project/media, or some environmental variable. You've got my info...

• ###### 30. Re: Strobed H.264 compression via AME. PPro with AE via Dynamic Link.

I got the same problem ...Quicktimeb playback like shutter problem...not smooth.

How to fix it? or how to remux m4v and acc?

Because I have to output MP4 to my client.

• ###### 31. Re: Strobed H.264 compression via AME. PPro with AE via Dynamic Link.

Did you try the above suggestion to turn off the metadata inclusion?  That has worked for me.