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1. Re: PDF file graphics are poor - AI to Word to Acrobat
Bill@VT Mar 10, 2011 5:43 AM (in response to TCarp)If you go to PNG or TIFF, you no longer have vector graphics. However, PNG, JPeg, and GIF are standard formats for Web pages. I thought WORD had an AI import, try that (Well, I just checked WORD 2007 and they no longer include AI -- probably something they still have against Adobe after the lawsuit). If you want to use the graphic by exporting and retaining the vector nature then it will either need to be EMF or EPS (or the older WMF). Why not just copy and paste through the clipboard? That should get it over there just as well and retain the vector nature.
As for why it does not look great in WORD, I can not say. The key is does it print to PDF well?
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2. Re: PDF file graphics are poor - AI to Word to Acrobat
Daniel Flavin Mar 10, 2011 11:07 AM (in response to TCarp)eps (and maybe other types) will look like crap in Word, but print out perfect, in my experience. Do not judge the on screen appearence.
However, if this will be a distibuted doc, I can understand that the eps preview would be avaoided....
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3. Re: PDF file graphics are poor - AI to Word to Acrobat
TCarp Mar 11, 2011 7:34 AM (in response to Daniel Flavin)Both your post and Bill@VT's tell me preserving vector can help print quality. I'm a bit surprised by the comments about how poor the view quality can be however I assume this means that Word (2007 in my case) doesn't have a built-in print processor for screen view. I'll run tests later today on printing EMF files from Word and then after conversion to PDF.
I went back to bring the vector graphics over via cut/paste EMF (vs insert image). The display in Word looks terrible. Some extra pixels here and there and curved lines are not smooth.
Will post back once I repeat my old tests, this time ignoring the Word or PDF screen display and instead looking at print out. I can probably live with the Word screen stuff, but it won't be as acceptable to do the same with the PDF. Even though the density is set to high quality print the document may never see ink for individual viewers.
Thanks
Tom
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4. Re: PDF file graphics are poor - AI to Word to Acrobat
Daniel Flavin Mar 11, 2011 8:28 AM (in response to TCarp)I would avoid cut and paste at all costs, but I work in InDesign.
Word's lack of eps preview would be reasonable given how much programming efforts make it into any product. eps is a format one would not expect the typical or even advanced Word user to be using, but I have found eps conversion to wmf via Illustrator to be the best chooice. (I haven't had to delve into this for quite some time however)
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5. Re: PDF file graphics are poor - AI to Word to Acrobat
TCarp Mar 11, 2011 10:03 AM (in response to Daniel Flavin)So far I haven't found the way to do the equivalent of Place in ID for Word other than to Paste As.
I too would prefer to work in ID but, unlike many here, I do volunteer work and being able to "share" the Word files in native format opens up a much larger group to adding directly to the document. It's not unusual, for example, to put the document out for mark up. I haven't mastered Acrobat enough to take anywhere near full advantage of it's full document managment capabilities, so for how it's Word.
The Paste As emf shows up well on the screen (in Word) and also displays well in a PDF. I have the print tests going to output now but I expect good images there too.
Again, I suspect it's pretty much technique and the app boundaries between Adobe and MSFT these days.
Tom
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6. Re: PDF file graphics are poor - AI to Word to Acrobat
Daniel Flavin Mar 11, 2011 2:10 PM (in response to TCarp)function(){return A.apply(null,[this].concat($A(arguments)))}
So far I haven't found the way to do the equivalent of Place in ID for Word other than to Paste As.
Insert > Picture
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7. Re: PDF file graphics are poor - AI to Word to Acrobat
Bill@VT Mar 11, 2011 5:53 PM (in response to TCarp)As for the display of EPS files in WORD, they only display if a bitmap is included as part of the EPS file. A lot of EPS files do not have a bitmap included and thus do not display in most word processors. The word processors generally do not process the EPS vector graphic for display, but put on a place holder for the graphic. Often the bitmaps that are included are only for informational purposes and do indeed look terrible. That is primarily because they are low resolution.
I am not sure why the aversion to copy and paste. You can always save the file so that you can get back to it. The copy and paste is basically what one gets with an EMF file. I have done this for years and the results have been excellent. I would be interested in why there is a thought of a down side for using the clipboard.
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8. Re: PDF file graphics are poor - AI to Word to Acrobat
TCarp Mar 12, 2011 6:37 AM (in response to Daniel Flavin)But doesn't insert picture lose vector capabilities?
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9. Re: PDF file graphics are poor - AI to Word to Acrobat
TCarp Mar 12, 2011 6:46 AM (in response to Bill@VT)I'm a little lost in the acronyms. As you can tell from my original post, the world of eps and emf etc. are still a bit unclear.
I'm not sure why I would be using an eps to get graphics from AI to Word to Acrobat. I'll have to do some reading.
My assumption is that for my application (most/all vector graphics) the best thing to do is preserve the vector graphics in Word. That, to my understanding, means an EMF. The only way I know of to get EMF into Word is to Paste Special.
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10. Re: PDF file graphics are poor - AI to Word to Acrobat
Bill@VT Mar 12, 2011 6:12 PM (in response to TCarp)I do not use WORD, but another word processor that allows me to see the format of the graphics as bitmaps or metafiles. The imported vector files are metafiles (this is a form of vector file used in Windows. Imported bitmap files are kept as bitmap files. There are some conversions that depend primarily on the compatibility of the graphic vector form and the windows metafile format. The results are generally excellent for me. What you could do is import in general formats like eps (include a bitmap if you want to see it in word and print to PDF to see the actual vector form), an emf file saved from AI (it should be retained as a vector form), and a bitmap, then also include clipboard versions of the same files from the original vector and bitmap files. You can judge for yourself. I am still interested in the comment from the other individual about not using the clipboard and why.
EPS is a vector graphic format developed by Adobe (as I recall, would have to look at my graphic book to be sure) along with PS files. It allows a bitmap preview file to be included -- what you see on screen in WORD. EMF files should be able to be loaded from the insert pictures menu in WORD (it is there in my WORD 2007 along with EPS and WMF files -- I do not there are any other formats that support vectors there). WMF is the old Windows MetaFile format and EMF is the Enhanced Windows MetaFile format. Actually, EMF and WMF files can include both vector and bitmap formats, similar in a sense to what Adobe can do I guess with PDF. The standard EMF is what is actually used in the clipboard. You can get more info at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Windows_Metafile. A similar discussion of EPS file is at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Encapsulated_PostScript. The main difference between the EMF and clipboard in WORD is that they are scaled differently when inserted. One problem with vector graphics in WORD 2007 and 2010 is that fonts of the text are not embedded. So someone without the fonts and looking at the WORD file would not see the proper text -- this is a MS issue introduced with their XML form of a DOC file. It is even messed up in their DOC compatibility format.
The AI file format is supposed to actually be a variation on the EPS file format from what I have read -- Apparently EPS is an outgrowth of AI?
In any case, the WORD file may not show the EPS file correctly. It appears that WORD 2007 does an attempt at displaying the result, but with errors (I have been looking at some line drawings and the WORD display shows line breaks. I printed the various forms of graphics in WORD to a PDF and the results for the EPS was not good. I think this may be a MS issue, but am not sure. Actually, the WORD converter to PDF even messed it up. That would suggest that at this point, EPS is not a good choice because of the way WORD handles things.
Don't know that my long winded description helps or not.
The EMF file can be inserted with the Insert>Picture menu. If you use the special paste, you can insert either WMF or WMF versions from the clipboard. Generally the results are the same. From my short experiment with EPS and WORD 2007, it looks like the result is a problem. However, that could have been the EPS save of my application, don't know. The best way to see what works for you is to do what I just did and that is create a vector graphic and save it as EMF and EPS. Then clipboard it into work and insert both the EMF and EPS in the picture menu. See what the result looks like and then also print to PDF and see what you get. Then draw your own conclusions rather than depending on someone like me who is just indicating results I have gotten.
Good luck.
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11. Re: PDF file graphics are poor - AI to Word to Acrobat
TCarp Mar 17, 2011 9:43 AM (in response to Bill@VT)Thank you very much for the explanation. I appreciate you taking the time for a thorough post very much.
I've run my tests and they support you comments. The most interesting is the fact that EMF files are larger than the original (about 18%). Not that big a deal if it's all vector but....
The print tests (Word and PDF) all a fine. I actually think the ones that have an EMF come closer to the original graphics.
What I'm beginning to realize is the screen display of the graphics in the documents (Word and PDF) need a bitmap. That, it turns out, was my original question (I was seeing poor graphics when viewing the documents on the screen).
I too am interested in any follow on comments about copy/paste. Since paste special specifically includes formats like EMF it looks like it was designed to be used.
BTW, thanks for the note on insert picture and how it will retain vector attributes for an EMF.
Thanks again
Tom



