9 Replies Latest reply on Mar 20, 2011 10:27 PM by RacerX2oo3

    Re: Cuda Support ("Certified" vs non-certified graphics cards)

    ectobuilder50 Level 1

      I think EVERYONE has this same question on their minds.  So let's ask it here once and for all.

       

      Re: WE ARE ALL CONFUSED ABOUT ADOBE'S PREMIERE PRO CS5's SUPPORT FOR CUDA ENABLED GRAPHICS CARDS.


      BACKGROUND FOR NEWBIES:

      For those not familiar with NVIDIA's graphics cards, here is a simplified primer:  A "Cuda Core" is Nvidia's implementation of Microsoft's DirectX 10's unified shading architecture.  Back in the day, graphics cards had to use fixed function pipelines to break down the work, you can think of this as hiring an accountant to do finance work and hiring a plumber to do plumbing work.  Now with Cuda, you can hire one person to do all the work because it is a unified architecture.  Nvidia graphics cards with this capability are the Geforce 8xxx, Geforce 9xxx, Geforce 2xx, Geforce, 4xx, Geforce 5xx (Notice how NVIDIA went from a four-digit to three-digit model numbering system, therefore the 5xx is more powerful than the 8xxx).  Even though this idea was done in conjuction with Microsoft, this design concept can be utilized by non-Microsoft applications such as Adobe's Premiere Pro CS5!

       

      For the techies out there, a Cuda Core consists of a floating point processor and an integer processor.  You can think of a lfoating point processor as a brain that can do fractional math or decimals (i.e. 1.5 + 0.32) while an integer processor can do whole number math (i.e. 1+2).  Note that this type of "core" is much simpler than a "core" found in say an Intel CPU, however because a Cuda Core are more numerous (i.e. 512 cores in today's Geforce 5xx card vs 6 cores on a high-end Intel CPU} the Cuda core has the potential to be more powerful if used correctly by software.

       

      The main differences between each generation of Cuda enabled graphics cards are numerous but not revolutionary.  For one each generation features progressively more Cuda Cores (i.e. a 5xx card has 512 cores while a 2xx card has 120 cores, obviously the higher number equals more performance).  Other differences include making memory access more efficient as well as power consumption efficiency among other things, but you get the point.

       

      THE QUESTION:

      If all of these cards implement CUDA (Geforce 8xxx, 9xxx, 2xx, 4xx and 5xx) then why are only a few cards being listed as "supported" under the Premiere Pro CS5 specification?  We need clarity on the development process to answer this question, there shouldn't be any reason why my top-of-the-line Geforce 580 won't accelerate CS5 like the certified 470 would.

       

      I think we all agree that we'd all prefer to use a Geforce 5xx for the increased performance and video-ram (it's also cheaper than the more expensive QUADRO and has similar specs).

       

      Thanks!

        • 1. Re: Cuda Support ("Certified" vs non-certified graphics cards)
          Harm Millaard Level 7
          We need clarity on the development process to answer this question, there shouldn't be any reason why my top-of-the-line Geforce 580 won't accelerate CS5 like the certified 470 would.

           

          Those who tell, don't know, Those who kow, don't tell.

           

          What is your point? Your 580 works great, even if it is not on the list of supported cards.

          • 2. Re: Cuda Support ("Certified" vs non-certified graphics cards)
            Todd_Kopriva Level 8

            See the answer to the question "Why are only some video cards supported?" here:

            "CUDA, Mercury Playback Engine, and Adobe Premiere Pro"

            • 3. Re: Cuda Support ("Certified" vs non-certified graphics cards)
              ectobuilder50 Level 1

              Hey Harm,

               

              Are you saying that even they do not list the GTX 580 under the supported graphics cards that Premiere Pro CS5 is actually still using it (where applicable)?

              • 4. Re: Cuda Support ("Certified" vs non-certified graphics cards)
                John T Smith Adobe Community Professional & MVP

                Adobe does a LOT of testing before they certify a card and add it to the official list

                 

                Some other models work by means of changing a text file to make the card work... but those cards are not officially suported by Adobe

                 

                If your card works with the text file change... good for you, but don't expect Adobe support to do anything if you have problems related to that card

                • 5. Re: Cuda Support ("Certified" vs non-certified graphics cards)
                  Harm Millaard Level 7

                  Yes, after applying the 'hack' it works perfectly. See how many have done that and are running that card without problems here: PPBM5 Benchmark

                   

                  There are a number of ideas floating around about the reasons for the limited number of certified cards. One is that it is costly and time consuming to fully test and certify all those cards on the market and the larger the number of certified cards, the more costly the support will be. If you leave this small backdoor (hack) in, people can try and test other cards themselves, without using Adobe resources and lowering the support costs. In this way you create a win-win situation, Adobe need not spend resources and money on certification and support, and the end-user has a very simple solution to choose from many more cards.

                  • 6. Re: Cuda Support ("Certified" vs non-certified graphics cards)
                    ectobuilder50 Level 1

                    Thanks guys,

                     

                    Just found the "hack" on Tomshardware.com entitiled "Adobe CS5: 64-bit, CUDA-Accelerated, And Threaded Performance ".

                     

                    It is indeed a software configuration (i.e. a list within a text file), something I had speculated earlier since all Cuda cards are simply the same Cuda!

                    • 7. Re: Cuda Support ("Certified" vs non-certified graphics cards)
                      ericjwi

                      I wish they just had a check box to enable it and just did not support it if it was not certified.  Its costing them money.  I'm looking for a program that works with a 500 series card and if it does not I'm looking elsewhere.

                       

                      EDIT: Not opposed to editing the config files but for this type of investment people shouldn't have to

                      • 8. Re: Cuda Support ("Certified" vs non-certified graphics cards)
                        Jeff Bellune Level 5
                        I wish they just had a check box to enable it and just did not support it if it was not certified

                        Adobe - Feature Request/Bug Report Form

                        • 9. Re: Cuda Support ("Certified" vs non-certified graphics cards)
                          RacerX2oo3 Level 1

                          It seems that this question pops up pretty regularly.  The question of why is the ratio of supported Quadro cards greater than the that of supported Geforce cards?  As Harm mentioned, the answer really comes down to one of resources.  It is a tremendous effort to continously support hardware, every update of both the software application, and the hardware drivers requires resources to maintain that certified hardware works properly.  To add to the difficulty there is no such thing as an NVIDIA GTX 470 graphics card.  For consumer graphics cards, NVIDIA as a company doesn't manufacture any graphics products, rather it sells GPUs to vendors who build there own graphic solutions. There are easily over a dozen manufacturers of the GTX 470 (eVGA, Zotac, Sparkle, Palit,Gigabyte, Galaxy, Zalman, PNY, ASUS, Acer, MSI, BFG, etc.), and many of these vendors offer several variations of the product using a particular GPU version.  Each company builds their version of the graphics card using whatever components they choose (memory, fans, capacitors, etc.)  Each GPU that's officially certified adds significant complexity to the certification process.  Quadro cards on the other hand are designed and manufactured by NVIDIA, so every Quadro 4000 card that you buy is exactly the same as every other Quadro 4000 ever made, there's no mystery factors.  Each component on the board is designed to professional standards to be high quality and offer long service life.  Additionally NVIDIA's internal QA and certification teams work to perform thousands of hours of additional testing on our Quadro cards specifically  with Premiere Pro to make sure that end users have a solid and stable experience.  This is the same level of professional support that Quadro has brought to professional CAD and DCC users for over a decade and that we are currently committed to bringing to video production and broadcast professionals.  

                           

                          Now whether this additional level of certification and product testing is a significant factor for you as an end user, is something that only you can decide for yourself.  However, I do find it interesting that some rather vocal members of the forum have repeatedly criticized others for purchasing professional Quadro graphics cards while at the same time steering people away from certain high speed hard drives because of long term stability and hardware failures with these products.  I'm personally happy that endusers have a wide variety of graphics products to choose from, and that they are seeing real tangible benefits us using NVIDIA GPU's with the Mercury Playback Engine, and we are working with Adobe to expand the range of available solutions.

                           

                          We are also committed to listening to what our end users have to say and to providing solutions designed to solve the problems they face in their day to day workflows.

                           

                           

                          Sean

                           

                          Sean Kilbride

                          Technical Marketing Manger, NVIDIA