31 Replies Latest reply on Jul 2, 2012 2:19 AM by Mike_Edel

    Zoom Q3HD files

    Flashdharma

      I am a musician.  I use a Zoom Q3HD to record video files.  The output is an MOV file.  In Premiere Pro CS5 the following

      information is displayed:

       

      Movie, 1280 X 720 (. . . 00:03::23:26, 29.97 fps, 44100 Hz - Compres . . .

       

      When I add the MOV file to the time line, the video plays fine, but the audio remains compressed and won't play.  I rebuilt the

      sequence file to match the displayed info, but the only change I can make to the audio is to match the 44100 Hz.

       

      The video and audio play fine in VLC.  When I check the codec information, it tells me that the audio is using:

       

      PCM S24 LE (42ni)

       

      Is there some way I can get Premiere to play these video files properly?

       

      Thanks very much for your help,

      Bill

        • 1. Re: Zoom Q3HD files
          Jim_Simon Level 8

          My guess here is that PP simply can't handle 24 bit audio.

          • 2. Re: Zoom Q3HD files
            Bill_Jensen_987

            I rerecorded the video and made sure that the audio was 16

            bit.  I got the same problem.  The video played, but the

            audio remained compressed and would not play.

             

            The codec being used by VLC is now:

             

            PCM S16 LE (sowt)

             

            Bill

            • 3. Re: Zoom Q3HD files
              Colin Brougham Level 6

              You can use 24-bit audio; I use it all the time, even/especially in QT MOV files. Premiere Pro converts everything internally to 32-bit, so it's not the "bitness" that is the problem.

               

              Could be a codec (more specifically, a decoder) issue. Just to verify: are you working on a PC, and do you have QT Player installed?

              • 4. Re: Zoom Q3HD files
                Jim_Simon Level 8

                Maybe try uploading a short clip for others to test.


                • 5. Re: Zoom Q3HD files
                  Bill_Jensen_987 Level 1

                  I am using a Windows 7 machine.  I have Quicktime installed, and the files run perfectly in QT.

                   

                  The only program that won't run the Zoom Q3HD files is Premiere Pro.

                   

                  Thanks for your help,

                  Bill

                  • 6. Re: Zoom Q3HD files
                    Colin Brougham Level 6

                    As Jim suggests, uploading a test clip would be helpful. I can't find any online.

                    • 7. Re: Zoom Q3HD files
                      Bill_Jensen_987 Level 1

                      I don't see any way to upload a file directly to this thread.

                      I have uploaded a Zoom Q3HD sample file to YouTube

                      to my account and turned off public access.  It is here:

                       

                      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FIzZuUsKQwQ

                       

                      I hope this works and it has not been reformatted

                      as an FLV file.

                       

                      I just downloaded a copy of the file from YouTube and it has been

                      reformatted as an FLV file.  I don't have an FTP site, so I don't know

                      how I can get a sample file into the thread.  If you can help me

                      with this, it would be appreciated.

                       

                       

                      Thanks again for your time and help,

                      Bill

                      • 8. Re: Zoom Q3HD files
                        Colin Brougham Level 6

                        Bill, check your PM; information there for uploading.

                        • 9. Re: Zoom Q3HD files
                          Bill_Jensen_987 Level 1

                          I solved the problem.  I changed the record format from PCM

                          to AAC and Premiere reads the files fine.

                           

                          The PCM format was never an issure before, I don't know what

                          the problem is, but I can play and edit the Zoom AAC files, so

                          I am not going to complain.

                           

                          Thanks everyone for your time and help,

                          Bill

                          • 10. Re: Zoom Q3HD files
                            Colin Brougham Level 6

                            Just remember that AAC is compressed, whereas PCM are raw samples. AAC is a decent audio codec, but if you're interested in the highest quality audio possible, you don't want to start with it.

                            • 11. Re: Zoom Q3HD files
                              zeekgenateer

                              Replying as I also have the same problem, audio does not play back properly on imported clips.  VLC and QuickTime (non pro) play the files, five 30 second clips, properly.

                               

                              VLC Audio Codec info:

                              Codec: PCM S16 LE (sowt)

                              Language: English

                              Channels: Stereo

                              Sample rate: 44100 Hz

                              Bits per sample: 16

                               

                              Premiere Info:
                              Type: MPEG Movie
                              File Size: 72.2 MB
                              Image Size: 1280 x 720
                              Pixel Depth: 32
                              Frame Rate: 23.976
                              Source Audio Format: 44100 Hz - compressed - Stereo
                              Project Audio Format: 44100 Hz - 32 bit floating point - Stereo
                              Total Duration: 00:00:25:00
                              Average Data Rate: 2.9 MB / second
                              Pixel Aspect Ratio: 1.0

                               

                              The playback is garbled at the beginning of the clip and the remainder of it a short bit of sound repeats.  Here is an image of the sound in premiere: link.  And here is the same audio after being extracted using VLC's convert/save function and imported into Premiere: link.  If I recall correctly PCM should be uncompressed Audio, I'm not sure why it would think that the audio was compressed in the source clip.  Is there a way to force Premiere to think the clip's sound was uncompressed?

                               

                              Thanks in advance.

                              • 12. Re: Zoom Q3HD files
                                Bill_Jensen_987 Level 1

                                This fix was sent to me and it worked pefectly on my machine:

                                ____________________________________

                                 

                                 

                                Hi Bill,

                                Interesting indeed. The audio sort of opens, but plays super-fast. Managed to fix it with this workaround (totally lossless):

                                 

                                1. Download MPEG StreamClip for      your operating system; the last beta version is what you want.
                                2. Open an MOV file with MPEG StreamClip (there is no      install necessary).
                                3. Choose File > Save As, and pick a location and name;      you want to save back to MOV
                                4. Once the file is save (should only take a moment), open      the new file in PPro CS5

                                If you have a lot of these, you can open the Batch List (List > Batch List) and open all of the files there. You can pick the same task you just did (save to a new location) and they'll all be processed in short order. The reason appears to be that the MOV containers this camera is recording to is somewhat non-standard; running them through MPEG StreamClip repackages the video and audio without any conversion into fresh containers that work better.

                                Good luck!

                                Colin

                                ____________________________

                                 

                                Hope that help,

                                Bill

                                • 13. Re: Zoom Q3HD files
                                  zeekgenateer Level 1

                                  Thanks! I just hope adobe fixes this.  It seems it doesn't recognize uncompressed audio properly.

                                  • 14. Re: Zoom Q3HD files
                                    Colin Brougham Level 6

                                    It's not really Adobe's problem to fix; the camera is creating some pretty questionable containers.

                                    • 15. Re: Zoom Q3HD files
                                      Bill_Jensen_987 Level 1

                                      Colin,

                                       

                                      You have been very helpful.  I appreciate your time and

                                      knowledge, but I am a little surprised by your curt response

                                      to the request that Adobe address the issue of the Zoom Q3HD

                                      files. After all, it is only in Premiere that they don't read.  They

                                      are fine in VLC, Quicktime Player, Real Player, etc.

                                       

                                      The Zoom Q3HD is the only portable HD video recorder with studio quality

                                      mics.  Becuase of this, it is quickly becoming a primary portable

                                      video recording tool for musicians.  Zoom products have traditionally been

                                      the best, most popular, portable recording tools for musicians.

                                       

                                      It seems to me that it would be in Adobe's interest, and certainly

                                      an act of good will towards the large communtiy of musicians that

                                      use your products, to fix this problem in Premiere.

                                       

                                      Thanks,

                                      Bill

                                      • 16. Re: Zoom Q3HD files
                                        Colin Brougham Level 6

                                        Well, this isn't a professional video camera, and it's not really a mainstream device either. While it may be of interest to musicians, I doubt many video professionals would even look at this thing twice. And since Premiere Pro is a VIDEO editing application, trying to support some device that records good audio but not-even-decent video should be pretty low on the list of priorities.

                                         

                                        All the programs you listed are players--not editors. They don't have to function in even remotely the same way that Premiere does. Using them as a basis for comparison is not an accurate way to assess Premiere's format support.

                                         

                                        I do understand Zoom's reputation in the audio and music industry; they're not a known name in the video industry, though. This isn't a multi-thousand-dollar Panasonic or Sony or Canon video camera that has to function reliably in a video production setting; it's a pocket camera that happens to record decent auido.

                                         

                                        I respect that you want this thing to work out-of-the-box with Premiere; do file a bug report/feature request (Adobe Feature Request/Bug Report Form). However, I maintain that it is the CAMERA at fault here, and not Premiere. As I've demonstrated, rewrapping the file in a new and proper MOV container--with no transcoding whatsoever--results in the file importing properly. I've put dozens of terabytes of video files through Premiere from all sorts of different cameras, with hardly an issue; for the formats that don't work right off the bat, there are workarounds like the one I gave you. In almost all cases, those files have come from niche devices like this--and there are more of them coming out every day. So, no; I don't think this is Adobe's issue to fix. This is an impossible moving target, and there are far more pressing issues that Adobe needs to focus on that benefit many more users.

                                        • 17. Re: Zoom Q3HD files
                                          zeekgenateer Level 1

                                          Colin: I don't even have this camera.  I made my clips using the TF2 Beta Replay system on Maximum quality at 720p.  Basically its a demo conversion process that allows me to do moving camera and multiple takes on multiple clips.

                                           

                                          It's not a camera problem its an import problem.

                                          • 18. Re: Zoom Q3HD files
                                            Jeff Bellune Adobe Community Professional

                                            You responded in the Zoom Q3HD thread.  How was Colin or anyone else supposed to know you didn't have the camera?  And if you'll look closely, you'll see that his detailed response was for another user and not you.

                                             

                                            If you want help with different kinds of files than those from the Q3HD, then start your own topic.

                                             

                                            -Jeff

                                            • 19. Re: Zoom Q3HD files
                                              zeekgenateer Level 1

                                              I replied here because I searched for my issue rather than just make a new thread.  This thread is based on the same issue of importing the aforementioned audio codec.  My last reply was to explain that this isn't just a problem with possibly shoddy camera software or hardware.

                                               

                                              If its preferable to post a new thread for the same issue then I will.

                                              • 20. Re: Zoom Q3HD files
                                                Jeff Bellune Adobe Community Professional

                                                It's preferable.

                                                 

                                                The video source, file format and codec can make a big difference in how Pr handles the data inside the files.  For example, MOD files from a JVC camera are not supported in Pr, and trying to import them results in all kinds of errors.  But if you change the file extension from MOD to MPG, then Pr can usually import and edit them OK.

                                                 

                                                Thanks!

                                                 

                                                -Jeff

                                                • 21. Re: Zoom Q3HD files
                                                  Mike_Edel Level 1

                                                  Hi all,

                                                   

                                                  just to add to this post: we are having the same problem:

                                                  Q3HD recordings with PCM 16 or 24 bit audio, 48kHz, little endian don't play correctly in Premiere Pro CS5 or 5.5

                                                   

                                                  The strange thing: they work perfectly fine in CS4. Audition also has no problem at all. Soundbooth has problems as well.

                                                   

                                                  Having to convert them beforehand is a little out of the question - after all we switched to a tapeless workflow to be able to do things faster.

                                                   

                                                  This is not our main camera and of course it is not a professional camera but it's one of the best ways to provide laymen with a simple camera that takes adequate video and great audio.

                                                  @Adobe: please get this working again - we had to switch back to Final Cut Pro do edit this

                                                   

                                                  According to Media Player Classic there might be a problem with the codec id:
                                                  16bit PCM

                                                  16bit.PNG

                                                  24bit PCM
                                                  24bit.PNG

                                                  If I save a wav file with pcm audio the codec id is different.
                                                  But it's probably way easier to fix the importer than to fix the camera...

                                                   

                                                  Cheers,

                                                   

                                                  Mike

                                                  • 22. Re: Zoom Q3HD files
                                                    abalorios

                                                    Hi, I am using Q3Hd and have the same problem with premiere pro 5, but if I use CS3 I dont have the problem.

                                                    • 23. Re: Zoom Q3HD files
                                                      Trent Happel Adobe Employee

                                                      For the users running into this issue, would it be possible to post some sample Q3HD files that have this problem? Thank you.

                                                      • 24. Re: Zoom Q3HD files
                                                        Mike_Edel Level 1

                                                        Will try to do a small test - can I directly attach it here?

                                                        • 25. Re: Zoom Q3HD files
                                                          abalorios Level 1

                                                          I can send a small file, but how do I attach the file?

                                                          • 27. Re: Zoom Q3HD files
                                                            Trent Happel Adobe Employee

                                                            Mike_Edel wrote:

                                                             

                                                            Will try to do a small test - can I directly attach it here?

                                                            You can try posting to acrobat.com

                                                            http://forums.adobe.com/message/3994281#3994281

                                                            • 28. Re: Zoom Q3HD files
                                                              Trent Happel Adobe Employee

                                                              abalorios wrote:

                                                               

                                                              I put a MOV file in this page

                                                              http://www.abaloriosproducciones.com/ZOOM/ZOOM.html

                                                              Hmmm, I tried this file in CS5.5 and CS6.0.1 on Mac 10.6.8 and Windows 7 sp1 (with QuickTime 7.7.2 installed) and I did not notice any apparent audio issues. Compared it with VLC Player and did not notice any difference in how the two applications played the file. Two things that possibly could be different on your systems:

                                                               

                                                              1) Ensure it's not reading from an old media cache. Make a copy of the file on your hard drive (with a different name) and then import that file in Premiere Pro. Wait for the PEK file to finish and then see if the file now plays the audio correctly. (You could also quit Premiere and delete the files in your media cache, but did not want you risking deletion of other cache files you may want to keep.)

                                                               

                                                              2) By chance do you have any 3rd party codecs installed?  If so, can you move the installed ones out of your Library/Quicktime and retry #1? (by default, the Mac OS should only have AppleMPEG2Codec.component, AppleIntermediateCodec.component in the library/QuickTime folder)

                                                              • 29. Re: Zoom Q3HD files
                                                                Mike_Edel Level 1

                                                                @Trent: could it be that you (Adobe) recently did something that might have fixed this in an update?

                                                                I was testing most of the different sound formats the camera supports on both CS5 and 5.5 (Windows) and none of the PCM variants worked.

                                                                Problems in Soundbooth as well.

                                                                 

                                                                Basically, the sound wouldn't play at all - you just got weird noise.

                                                                 

                                                                Audition was fine but having to convert the Audio in a seperate step isn't really a good workflow.

                                                                My test files from yesterday are looking fine so far in 5.5 and in Soundbooth (CS5 engine?)

                                                                 

                                                                https://acrobat.com/#d=U8IWZE4UwKFQSgHMNSY1PA

                                                                Please drop me a line if I need to explicitely share this file to make it accessible to others...

                                                                 

                                                                Most of the files are in SVGA to make the file size bearable.

                                                                Did a 720p25 version as well for good measure (that one was failing in my first tests back in October).

                                                                One file with AAC for comparison.

                                                                 

                                                                Would appreciate it if you could inquire whether this was actually fixed. I'm quite sure I didn't do any codec updates/installations since then (and certainly no audio codecs).

                                                                 

                                                                Cheers,

                                                                 

                                                                Mike

                                                                • 30. Re: Zoom Q3HD files
                                                                  Trent Happel Adobe Employee

                                                                  Mike,

                                                                   

                                                                  Did you make sure to "Publish it" for the files? When I click on your link, I get "The document can't be found, or you don't have access to it." If you have, then I'm not sure why I can't access your files on Acrobat.com. Following the instruction link I sent, it should just work. If this cannot be resolved, then I can PM you an ftp link if need be.

                                                                   

                                                                  I had tested the file provided by abalorios on CS5.5.0 (not updated) but have yet to try your files, so let me take a look and see if I can reproduce with those files.

                                                                  • 31. Re: Zoom Q3HD files
                                                                    Mike_Edel Level 1

                                                                    Trent,

                                                                     

                                                                    sorry - I was unsure about I have to publish it first.

                                                                    Done so now. Will check as well in CS5.

                                                                     

                                                                    Cheers,

                                                                     

                                                                    Mike

                                                                    • 32. Re: Zoom Q3HD files
                                                                      Trent Happel Adobe Employee

                                                                      Mike,

                                                                       

                                                                      I tried all of your supplied files and they all appeared to be OK on various systems that I tried them on. This included Windows 7 sp1 with QuickTime 7.7.2 installed and Mac 10.6.8 systems with Premiere Pro CS5.5.0 and CS6.0. Audio did not appear to have any issues for any of the files.

                                                                      • 33. Re: Zoom Q3HD files
                                                                        Mike_Edel Level 1

                                                                        Trent,

                                                                         

                                                                        I don't get it why it works now but as long as it stays that way it's fine with me.

                                                                        Maybe it really was a codec issue or something.

                                                                         

                                                                        Many thanks for checking it out.

                                                                         

                                                                        Cheers,

                                                                         

                                                                        Mike