20 Replies Latest reply: Dec 3, 2014 8:50 AM by Clay’s Unique Screen Name RSS

    I HATE FLASH!!!

    poke_it_with_a_stick Community Member
      Until now, for one reason or anther, I have resisted changing from LiveMotion to Flash. Having disliked Macromedia's way of organising the page and working - Freehand never being a patch on Illustrator for example, Adobe was the way to go! However, they killed off LiveMotion and it isn't coming back. So, the time has come. I can put it off no longer.

      Although prodominatly a graphic designer I like to think I can turn out a reasonible Flash website, but having just spent a couple of days trying to get to grips with CS3 I'm ready to throw the computer out of the window. I hate it!

      For example, the timeline in LiveMotion was a work of art compared to CS3. From day one it was easy to understand and manipulate. Applying code or events to buttons or timelines was sooooooo blatently obvious and easy to perform yet with CS3 is seems a complete nightmare. I can't work out the logic of it.

      For example, I have just created an animation but what happens when I scrub through it half way, stop and return to Scene 1? It disappears!!! What is that all about? Why should it do that? What if I wanted the animation to stay where I left the playhead so I could make adjustments on another level elsewhere? Can one do such a thing?

      LiveMotion made sense but I have to say CS3 is just confussing the hell out of me.

      How can I possibly learn this program without pulling all my hair out, slashing my wrists and my girlfriend walking out on me? If anyone can help or happens to share simular opinions I'd love to hear from you.


        • 1. Re: I HATE FLASH!!!
          Newsgroup_User Community Member
          I'd love to help because I think once you have that Flash "moment of clarity" - you will love it -
          and I can understand your frustration.
          LM had an After Effects style timeline right? I never used it but saw some video tutorials with it.
          At any rate - visit my flash blog/resource/community over at:
          www.keyframer.com
          Specifically these links:
          http://www.adobe.com/designcenter/video_workshop/
          http://adobe.breezecentral.com/p46515568/
          http://adobe.breezecentral.com/p12081524/?launcher=false&skip-survey=true
          http://adobe.breezecentral.com/p48069653/?launcher=false&skip-survey=true
          http://adobe.breezecentral.com/p83971896/?launcher=false&skip-survey=true
          http://www.macromedia.com/devnet/flash/articles/design_character.html
          http://www.adobe.com/devnet/flash/articles/flash8_bestpractices.html
          http://www.macromedia.com/devnet/flash/articles/intro_flash_print.html

          As for the scrubbing issue you are having - are you using Movie Clips? You may want to use Graphic
          symbols - but it helps to know or see exactly what you are trying to achieve - remember, flash can
          do a myriad things from cel style animation to cut out style animation to website design to rich
          internet applications to progressively streaming video (FLV) to Flash Lite content to....the list
          goes on.

          -chris

          Chris Georgenes / mudbubble.com / keyframer.com / Adobe Community Expert


          poke it with a stick wrote:
          > Until now, for one reason or anther, I have resisted changing from LiveMotion
          > to Flash. Having disliked Macromedia's way of organising the page and working
          > - Freehand never being a patch on Illustrator for example, Adobe was the way to
          > go! However, they killed off LiveMotion and it isn't coming back. So, the
          > time has come. I can put it off no longer.
          >
          > Although prodominatly a graphic designer I like to think I can turn out a
          > reasonible Flash website, but having just spent a couple of days trying to get
          > to grips with CS3 I'm ready to throw the computer out of the window. I hate it!
          >
          > For example, the timeline in LiveMotion was a work of art compared to CS3.
          > From day one it was easy to understand and manipulate. Applying code or events
          > to buttons or timelines was sooooooo blatently obvious and easy to perform yet
          > with CS3 is seems a complete nightmare. I can't work out the logic of it.
          >
          > For example, I have just created an animation but what happens when I scrub
          > through it half way, stop and return to Scene 1? It disappears!!! What is
          > that all about? Why should it do that? What if I wanted the animation to stay
          > where I left the playhead so I could make adjustments on another level
          > elsewhere? Can one do such a thing?
          >
          > LiveMotion made sense but I have to say CS3 is just confussing the hell out of
          > me.
          >
          > How can I possibly learn this program without pulling all my hair out,
          > slashing my wrists and my girlfriend walking out on me? If anyone can help or
          > happens to share simular opinions I'd love to hear from you.
          >
          >
          >
          >
          • 2. Re: I HATE FLASH!!!
            Newsgroup_User Community Member
            > How can I possibly learn this program without pulling all
            > my hair out, slashing my wrists and my girlfriend walking
            > out on me?

            Ummmm.

            > If anyone can help or happens to share simular opinions I'd
            > love to hear from you.

            Well, first off, I'm sorry to hear you're having such difficulties
            Sounds like culture shock, and I'm not sure what (if anything) can be done
            about that. Some people love Photoshop and hate GIMP; for others, it's the
            other way around. Some people prefer Freehand over Illustrator, and of
            course there's the opposite camp. Some folks say to-may-to, some to-mah-to.

            Since you've only "spent a couple days," I'd say you should take a
            breather -- get outside for a moment, walk around the block, grab a
            Slurpee -- then start fresh. Take baby steps. You may be a proficient
            LiveMotion designer, but this isn't LiveMotion, and there's really no reason
            to expect either program to act like the other.

            > Applying code or events to buttons or timelines was sooooooo
            > blatently obvious and easy to perform yet with CS3 is seems a
            > complete nightmare

            ActionScript 3.0 doesn't support code attached to objects, so if you
            want that sort of functionality, you'll have to set your publish settings to
            ActionScript 2.0 or lower. That'll enable the Behaviors panel, too.

            > I can't work out the logic of it.

            You give your objects instance names (see the Property inspector), then
            call those objects by name and tell them what to do. How do you know which
            object does what? You look up its class entry in the ActionScript 3.0 (or
            2.0) Language Reference. Classes define objects ... you'll usually see up
            to three categories: properties (characteristics the object has), methods
            (things the object can do), and events (things the object can react to).
            The MovieClip class pertains to movie clips, the SimpleButton class pertains
            to buttons in AS2 (it's the Button class in AS2), the TextField class
            pertains to dynamic and input text fields ... the list goes on.

            > For example, I have just created an animation but what happens
            > when I scrub through it half way, stop and return to Scene 1? It
            > disappears!!!

            Sounds like you were in the timeline of a symbol, then returned to the
            main timeline. Look your Library, double click on the asset you were
            editing, and its timeline will show again.

            > LiveMotion made sense but I have to say CS3 is just confussing
            > the hell out of me.

            Well, don't jump out the window just yet. ;) Have you looked through
            the documentation yet? Have you perused any tech books yet? I realize
            there aren't many on the shelves yet for Flash CS3, but give it just a bit
            more time ... I can think of a few that are coming out in July and August.

            In the mean time, seriously ... break up the IDE into bite-sized chunks.
            Start with the drawing tools. Choose each, in turn, and look at the options
            that appear along the bottom of the Tools panel as you do. Experiment with
            what you've got. Think of it like sushi rather than a mondo burger ...
            small, unique delicacies to be tasted gingerly (yeah, it's a sushi pun ...
            ginger ... [sound of crickets]). Work your way through. Draw something and
            convert it to a graphic symbol (Modify > Convert to Symbol) ... see the
            difference between that and a movie clip, and a button. For example,
            buttons have only four frames, and those four correspond to four states (Up,
            Over, Down, and Hit, the last of which defines which part of the button is
            clickable). Graphic symbols' timelines are synchronized with the timeline
            that contains them (though, even so, you'll see looping choices in the
            Property inspector). Movie clips' timelines run independently of the
            timeline that contains them. Movie clips' timelines can contain
            ActionScript and sound ... etc., etc. All of these details eventually gel
            into a solid understanding, but you can't stuff the whole buffet past your
            teeth at the first sitting.


            David Stiller
            Adobe Community Expert
            Dev blog, http://www.quip.net/blog/
            "Luck is the residue of good design."


            • 3. Re: I HATE FLASH!!!
              poke_it_with_a_stick Community Member
              Hello,

              I appreciate that I won't be able to run a marathon at only two days old but hell bells!!! At least with liveMotion I could look through the code and the workings of the program from day one and work out what was going on. This is just blowing my mind.

              Day one - first hour was spent playing with shapes and tweening them from one form to another. Then I played with the timeline further trying to work out the buttons and how to assign commands to them but just kept banging my head against the wall. So, with the idea of getting to know Flash, before jumping into Actionscript 3, I reverted back to Actionscript 2 in the hope that it would be more like LiveMotion to get my head around. Wrong!

              I'm sure I'll get used to it but I can't help thinking, whatever anyone says, the time line in LM was sooooooooooooooooooo much nicer to use than the Flash version. Even reading what people say about it within this forum leads me to believe I'm not alone.

              What I'm finding really frustrating is that I'm having to learn everything again - and its hard. Especially as I work alone and don't have anyone to shout 'help!' to across the room.

              Baby steps, eh? I'll be a whipering baby before the night is out.

              • 4. Re: I HATE FLASH!!!
                poke_it_with_a_stick Community Member
                Chris, You're completely right about the scrubbing problem I was having. Its all too much for my brain to work out :)

                Thank you for the links too. I'm sure there'll be something in there that will help this masive learning curve I have before me.

                Dave, You're right. Its is a massive culture shock. I can essentially work out how to aminmate something but its how one formulates that into a website that seems a million miles away. How to get buttons to appear, disappear, animations to float in and loading movies into a level. I know... baby steps. I just want to know it now!!!

                Looks like many late nights are in store for me over the coming months.
                • 5. Re: I HATE FLASH!!!
                  Newsgroup_User Community Member
                  LM did die for a reason though - it may have had some good features but overall it lacked some
                  features as well - i remember trying the trial version and couldn't believe some of the areas it was
                  lacking in.
                  Anyway - LM was years ago - flash is amuch more robust program - can not compare the learning curve
                  between what has flourished for 10 years to something that lasted a fraction of that duration.
                  Not flaming LM here - i am all for more tools, but flash is flash for a reason and I dont see
                  timeline bashing in this forum and I am here everyday for years. In fact - i hear the opposite -
                  many users love the simple cel style timeline that flash offers.
                  Anyway - I have offered help and it's up to you to decide if you want to pursure flash or just vent
                  about your 2-day old frustrations - i say you can do it - just take baby steps as david pointed out
                  - we have all been there.
                  I tried Maya and was very frustrated the first few days with it because I wasn't making anything
                  cool in the first few hours - i recognize that the program is deeper than most and i need to roll up
                  my sleeves and start small and build upon my own learning.
                  Flash is the same. Trust me once you get it, it will be awesome - but if you give up now, then
                  that's your decision. We're here to help - so specific questions are best and easies to answer.

                  You say AS2 was not easier - but you never mention what kind of code you are having issues with -
                  paste it here - the nature of the forum is for you to provide the issue - we provide solution - you
                  learn from it :)

                  Chris Georgenes / mudbubble.com / keyframer.com / Adobe Community Expert


                  poke it with a stick wrote:
                  > Hello,
                  >
                  > I appreciate that I won't be able to run a marathon at only two days old but
                  > hell bells!!! At least with liveMotion I could look through the code and the
                  > workings of the program from day one and work out what was going on. This is
                  > just blowing my mind.
                  >
                  > Day one - first hour was spent playing with shapes and tweening them from one
                  > form to another. Then I played with the timeline further trying to work out
                  > the buttons and how to assign commands to them but just kept banging my head
                  > against the wall. So, with the idea of getting to know Flash, before jumping
                  > into Actionscript 3, I reverted back to Actionscript 2 in the hope that it
                  > would be more like LiveMotion to get my head around. Wrong!
                  >
                  > I'm sure I'll get used to it but I can't help thinking, whatever anyone says,
                  > the time line in LM was sooooooooooooooooooo much nicer to use than the Flash
                  > version. Even reading what people say about it within this forum leads me to
                  > believe I'm not alone.
                  >
                  > What I'm finding really frustrating is that I'm having to learn everything
                  > again - and its hard. Especially as I work alone and don't have anyone to
                  > shout 'help!' to across the room.
                  >
                  > Baby steps, eh? I'll be a whipering baby before the night is out.
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  • 6. Re: I HATE FLASH!!!
                    Newsgroup_User Community Member
                    poke,

                    > I appreciate that I won't be able to run a marathon at
                    > only two days old but hell bells!!!

                    Well, bring the Gatorade and keep your chin up. :)

                    > LliveMotion I could look through the code and the
                    > workings of the program from day one and work out
                    > what was going on. This is just blowing my mind.

                    If I remember right (and I may not), the last version of LiveMotion
                    approximately compares to Flash 5. In multimedia years, that's a long time
                    ago. Flash 5 was a lot easier to use then, too -- but it wasn't nearly as
                    powerful.

                    > I'm sure I'll get used to it but I can't help thinking, whatever
                    > anyone says, the time line in LM was sooooooooooooooooooo
                    > much nicer to use than the Flash version.

                    The funny thing is, I can't stand the timeline in After Effects. Go
                    figure! But it takes all kinds, right? Just give it some time.

                    > Even reading what people say about it within this forum
                    > leads me to believe I'm not alone.

                    Of course not! :) Flash is a challenging application. In a sense, I'm
                    glad it is, because if it wasn't, shoooot ... every kid on the block could
                    spin out cool-*** Flash animations, websites, Web apps, games, TV series, on
                    and on. Most of my income derives from Flash development, tutoring, and
                    consulting, so I'm glad this stuff isn't *too* easy. ;) For what it's
                    worth, I learned Flash the same way you're doing it ... by pulling my hair
                    out and playing playing playing until I got it.

                    > Especially as I work alone and don't have anyone to shout 'help!'
                    > to across the room.

                    That's what the keyboard is for. ;)


                    David Stiller
                    Adobe Community Expert
                    Dev blog, http://www.quip.net/blog/
                    "Luck is the residue of good design."


                    • 7. Re: I HATE FLASH!!!
                      Newsgroup_User Community Member
                      This thread will help clarify the Movie Clip/Graphic issue:

                      http://keyframer.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=914&highlight=difference+graphic+movie+clip

                      Chris Georgenes / mudbubble.com / keyframer.com / Adobe Community Expert


                      poke it with a stick wrote:
                      > Chris, You're completely right about the scrubbing problem I was having. Its
                      > all too much for my brain to work out :)
                      >
                      > Thank you for the links too. I'm sure there'll be something in there that
                      > will help this masive learning curve I have before me.
                      >
                      > Dave, You're right. Its is a massive culture shock. I can essentially work
                      > out how to aminmate something but its how one formulates that into a website
                      > that seems a million miles away. How to get buttons to appear, disappear,
                      > animations to float in and loading movies into a level. I know... baby steps.
                      > I just want to know it now!!!
                      >
                      > Looks like many late nights are in store for me over the coming months.
                      >
                      • 8. Re: I HATE FLASH!!!
                        Newsgroup_User Community Member
                        I should add - there are some things about flash that promote some horrible practices when it comes
                        to animaton - you should never be allowed to apply a motion tween to a raw onbject - but flash
                        allows this to happen and auto-generates generic symbols in the library anyway - this is an awful
                        "feature" because it makes 2 symbols out of one object and that is counter-productive.
                        I made a quick and dirty tutorial for someone on the keyframer.com forum last night - it might help
                        but you may be beyond it at this point:

                        http://keyframer.com/tutorials/tween.html

                        Chris Georgenes / mudbubble.com / keyframer.com / Adobe Community Expert


                        poke it with a stick wrote:
                        > Chris, You're completely right about the scrubbing problem I was having. Its
                        > all too much for my brain to work out :)
                        >
                        > Thank you for the links too. I'm sure there'll be something in there that
                        > will help this masive learning curve I have before me.
                        >
                        > Dave, You're right. Its is a massive culture shock. I can essentially work
                        > out how to aminmate something but its how one formulates that into a website
                        > that seems a million miles away. How to get buttons to appear, disappear,
                        > animations to float in and loading movies into a level. I know... baby steps.
                        > I just want to know it now!!!
                        >
                        > Looks like many late nights are in store for me over the coming months.
                        >
                        • 9. Re: I HATE FLASH!!!
                          Newsgroup_User Community Member
                          Oops - that came out all wrong - i didnt mean you were beyond help - i meant you may be above this
                          basic level of animation in flash :) sorry.

                          Chris Georgenes wrote:

                          "...it might help but you may be beyond it at this point..."
                          • 10. Re: I HATE FLASH!!!
                            poke_it_with_a_stick Community Member
                            Sorry if I sound like this is a major vent and annoyance over the demise of something I know has long gone. Its not meant to be. I'm very, very gratful for your help here and such speedy replies to my ramblings. Its true, I don't know the full workings of Flash or a mere percentage of what this program has to offer or, more to the point, how to do any of it - apart from tweening something that is :) You must read this and smile - knowing the hassles I'm going to have with getting up to speed with all this. And you're right, if it was that easy everyone would be doing it.

                            i think once I have my head around the workings of the timeline and how that would translate into a website structure - controlling independent timelines etc then I'll be away. Just got to get the LM way of doing things out of my head first.

                            I've always known it was the way o go its just making that jump. Hell, I've jumped out of planes with less fear than making this leap into Flash - what is the matter with me?!!!

                            Thank you :)
                            • 11. Re: I HATE FLASH!!!
                              poke_it_with_a_stick Community Member
                              HA! You might have hit the nail on the head, Chris. Perhaps I am beyond help :)
                              • 12. Re: I HATE FLASH!!!
                                Newsgroup_User Community Member
                                I jumped once too - from a plane - a perfectly good one at that - from 11,000 feet - free fell to
                                4500 and pulled the rip cord - of course we know it opened or i wouldn't be typing this :)

                                how high was your jump?

                                Chris Georgenes / mudbubble.com / keyframer.com / Adobe Community Expert


                                poke it with a stick wrote:
                                > Sorry if I sound like this is a major vent and annoyance over the demise of
                                > something I know has long gone. Its not meant to be. I'm very, very gratful
                                > for your help here and such speedy replies to my ramblings. Its true, I don't
                                > know the full workings of Flash or a mere percentage of what this program has
                                > to offer or, more to the point, how to do any of it - apart from tweening
                                > something that is :) You must read this and smile - knowing the hassles I'm
                                > going to have with getting up to speed with all this. And you're right, if it
                                > was that easy everyone would be doing it.
                                >
                                > i think once I have my head around the workings of the timeline and how that
                                > would translate into a website structure - controlling independent timelines
                                > etc then I'll be away. Just got to get the LM way of doing things out of my
                                > head first.
                                >
                                > I've always known it was the way o go its just making that jump. Hell, I've
                                > jumped out of planes with less fear than making this leap into Flash - what is
                                > the matter with me?!!!
                                >
                                > Thank you :)
                                >
                                • 13. Re: I HATE FLASH!!!
                                  poke_it_with_a_stick Community Member
                                  14,500 feet - pulled at 5,000. I'm hooked though. Been meaning to do it for years. Accelerated Freefall Course takes 3-4 days and then you can jump anywhere :) So , thats on the cards at some point later in the year - however the UK is hardly the best place for it as it seems to constantly rain these days. Off to Spain later in the year hopefuly. If I ever get my head around this Flash :)

                                  Would you do it again?
                                  • 14. Re: I HATE FLASH!!!
                                    Newsgroup_User Community Member
                                    3-4 days? wow - I jumped the same day! Same accelerated freefall class started around 8am - i was
                                    ready to jump at 4pm but it was too windy - luckily the wind died down around 6pm and the sun was
                                    setting - one of the coolest experiences I have ever had.
                                    I would do it again but now i am married with 3 kids - like insurance companies tend to frown upon
                                    these kinds of hobbies :)

                                    so you must have freefalled for over a full minute eh? wowza!

                                    Chris Georgenes / mudbubble.com / keyframer.com / Adobe Community Expert


                                    poke it with a stick wrote:
                                    > 14,500 feet - pulled at 5,000. I'm hooked though. Been meaning to do it for
                                    > years. Accelerated Freefall Course takes 3-4 days and then you can jump
                                    > anywhere :) So , thats on the cards at some point later in the year - however
                                    > the UK is hardly the best place for it as it seems to constantly rain these
                                    > days. Off to Spain later in the year hopefuly. If I ever get my head around
                                    > this Flash :)
                                    >
                                    > Would you do it again?
                                    >
                                    • 15. Re: I HATE FLASH!!!
                                      poke_it_with_a_stick Community Member
                                      The AFF course, once qualified, allows one to jump anywhere solo. You're first jump is a tamdem, if you haven't done one with the preveious 12 months, and then you jump with two instructors for a few jumps, then one, then solo. You have to do about 14 jumps or more to become qualified.

                                      An old friend of mine who I climb with does a lot of base jumping and has recently taken up wing suits - now that is cool!

                                      Kids and parachuting doesn't mix though somehow, eh? Mortgage companies don't like it much either. Everyone should at least do it once though. Its the most amazing experience I think. All that space to play in. Awesome!

                                      There is a great piece of footage on YouTube of two (four) poeple jumping tandem from high altertude thats worth checking out. The freefall is about four or five minutes long. Now that is 'wowza!'

                                      I've given the Flash a rest for a while. A strong cup of coffee and a clear head might help - I think. I hope! I'm deterined to get this licked. If I could just replicate my website (www.smudge-uk.com) I'd be well on my way. Early days :)

                                      • 16. Re: I HATE FLASH!!!
                                        Newsgroup_User Community Member
                                        My first jump wan't tandem - i wasn't attached to anybody :)
                                        Thinking now that skydiving company may have since changed their rules :)

                                        Chris Georgenes / mudbubble.com / keyframer.com / Adobe Community Expert


                                        poke it with a stick wrote:
                                        > The AFF course, once qualified, allows one to jump anywhere solo. You're first
                                        > jump is a tamdem, if you haven't done one with the preveious 12 months, and
                                        > then you jump with two instructors for a few jumps, then one, then solo. You
                                        > have to do about 14 jumps or more to become qualified.
                                        >
                                        > An old friend of mine who I climb with does a lot of base jumping and has
                                        > recently taken up wing suits - now that is cool!
                                        >
                                        > Kids and parachuting doesn't mix though somehow, eh? Mortgage companies don't
                                        > like it much either. Everyone should at least do it once though. Its the most
                                        > amazing experience I think. All that space to play in. Awesome!
                                        >
                                        > There is a great piece of footage on YouTube of two (four) poeple jumping
                                        > tandem from high altertude thats worth checking out. The freefall is about
                                        > four or five minutes long. Now that is 'wowza!'
                                        >
                                        > I've given the Flash a rest for a while. A strong cup of coffee and a clear
                                        > head might help - I think. I hope! I'm deterined to get this licked. If I
                                        > could just replicate my website (www.smudge-uk.com) I'd be well on my way.
                                        > Early days :)
                                        >
                                        >
                                        >
                                        • 17. Re: I HATE FLASH!!!
                                          skiddy23 Community Member
                                          I have a lot of experience using Flash and LiveMotion. They both have their strengths. Flash 9 is much better handling video, but LiveMotion 2 is more organized, easer to animate with and has better intergrades with PhotoShop. The bottom line is if I don’t have to use video in my Flash project I use LiveMotion. It’s a shame that Adobe can’t combine Flash with LiveMotion.
                                          • 18. Re: I HATE FLASH!!!
                                            John_C_Taylor Community Member
                                            LOL I thought it there were funny posts in this one guys!

                                            Hey poke if you’re having a hard time with Flash make sure there aren’t any guns in the house if you ever have to learn After Effects.

                                            Try

                                            www.Flashkit.com

                                            There is a host of helpful people (I mean a wonderful forum way more actively patrolled that Flash Exchange) and great tutorials to look over there. I sound 2 me like all that’s need here is a fresh start and a little bit of time and patience and you will be a flash addict in no time.

                                            PS: the standard key board short cuts in flash are horablly thought out (as with all Adobe packages) take the time if you find your self using a tool alot to reassign it to a hot key that you use often.
                                            • 19. Re: I HATE FLASH!!!
                                              Marcos-Brazil435373 Community Member

                                              I also hate Flash.
                                              It's a program that is counter intuitive to everything one has learned in all the other Adobe software.

                                              • 20. Re: I HATE FLASH!!!
                                                Clay’s Unique Screen Name Community Member


                                                So you're saying that Flash is intuitive software.

                                                 

                                                *badum-tsh*