16 Replies Latest reply on May 11, 2011 8:53 PM by mikeklar Branched to a new discussion.

    Premiere CS5 post alt-tab freeze

    ossvale65

      Hi all

      I have this problem with Premiere CS5 (but I had it with ALL previous versions...)

      If I import a lot of clips (let's say 100, a normal amount for a normal edit) - in this case P2 clips, but images or other format is the same, everything works fine.

      Whenever I try to switch back and forth from/to PPRO CS5 using ALT-TAB or mouse click on windows app bar, Premiere "freezes" for many seconds, sometimes MINUTES, I would say in proportion with the number of clips in my project. It seems like every time I switch back to Premiere, it loads all the clips again, or check them or something like that.

      Since going to Photoshop or another app is very frequent during editing, this is really frustrating.

      I tried on many different machines, all Quad cores with 8 gigs of RAM, so in general powerful systems, but the problem remains.

      It is not a disk read problem because Premiere SHOULD NOT READ anything switching back to it, and anyway I have fast disks and a 100 MB/S NAS.

      Something I am missing? Some hidden switch...?

      Or a terrible BUG, that continues from the beginning of the creation of Premiere?

      By the way, Windows system, at the moment Win 7 64bits, but this bug was there with Vista, XP32... etc.

       

      Thanks

       

      Valerio Oss

      PIXEL CARTOON

        • 1. Re: Premiere CS5 post alt-tab freeze
          Harm Millaard Level 7

          This has all the marks of:

           

          1. Not updated to 5.03

          2. Improper tuning of the system

          3. Lacking hardware resources

          4. Background processes and services

           

          To assist you, we need much more details, but basically it is OE.

          • 2. Re: Premiere CS5 post alt-tab freeze
            ossvale65 Level 1

            1. Yes it's 5.03

            2. I tried with different machines, and this happens always with different projects

            3. good system, quad core, 8gig RAM, fast HD, only Premiere running

            4. possible, usual Norton Antivirus and some services and/or small apps (skype, dropbox, vray service, deadline renderfarm manager

             

            but strange thing is it happens with many different machines and projects

             

            Did it never happen to you?

            What do you mean by OE?

            • 3. Re: Premiere CS5 post alt-tab freeze
              ossvale65 Level 1

              ...and I forgot...

              I have a Blackmagic Design Multibridge Eclipse Card, but only on my personal machine, not on the others...

              • 4. Re: Premiere CS5 post alt-tab freeze
                Harm Millaard Level 7
                1. Yes it's 5.03

                 

                Great. That rules one out.

                 

                2. I tried with different machines, and this happens always with different projects

                 

                That is not very informative. It lacks details on those machines.

                 

                3. good system, quad core, 8gig RAM, fast HD, only Premiere running

                 

                Quad core by itself means absolutely nothing. I have seen systems with dual quad cores more than 125 times slower than a fast machine. 8 GB is around bare minimum without multi-tasking, but a severe handicap with multi-tasking and just not enough. Fast HD is singular. If you are indeed talking about a single disk, that is below minimum requirements for single task use of PR, let alone for multi-tasking. To see what I mean, look here: PPBM5 Benchmark

                 

                4. possible, usual Norton Antivirus and some services and/or small apps (skype, dropbox, vray service, deadline renderfarm manager

                 

                Check with Process Explorer how many processes are running. If more than 40 - 50 it is time for serious tuning.

                 

                OE means Operator Error. It happens when the Operator uses ill-configured hardware, does not tune his system, runs background services and processes that impact negatively on performance, uses ill-suited source material, etc.

                • 5. Re: Premiere CS5 post alt-tab freeze
                  Todd_Kopriva Level 8

                  When Harm refers to other applications and processes running in the background that may cause this problem, he is in part referring to security/anti-virus software. See this thread for some discussion of how disabling such software eliminated the delay for several folks:

                  http://forums.adobe.com/message/3104305#3104305

                  • 6. Re: Premiere CS5 post alt-tab freeze
                    ossvale65 Level 1

                    Thanks for your answers Harm, but I think the point is another one: Premiere works PERFECTLY on all these machines, smoothly, imports clips fast, I can edit in realtime with 4 HD tracks (P2), render ok etc.

                    No problems at all, so the system in general is well tuned and gives me no issues.

                    BUT

                    when I switch from Premiere to another program, let's say photoshop or anyway also a simple text editor and return back to Premiere... it says NOT RESPONDING for many seconds, sometimes more... and then it returns to work properly and fast as ever.

                    It seems as everytime I return to Premiere (after only putting the window to the background) it tries to reload all the clips, or check for their inegrity or something.

                    Thank is the problem the is really frustrating.

                    And it is proportional to the number of clips/files in project

                    Here is some tests I did now:

                     

                    1) Create new HD project

                    2) Import 100 P2 clips

                    3) Nothing is in the timeline

                    4) Try to switch to another app

                    5) Back to Premiere, I wait 30" before Premiere responds

                     

                    same as before, but adding 120 more clips (total 220 clips)

                    5) Back to Premiere, I wait 1'30" before Premiere responds

                     

                    same as before but with only 20 clips

                    5) Premiere responds in about 5"

                     

                    I think this is a Premiere problem, not a system problem (or of course a mix of the two). This because I use these machines for other tasks, and they are all smooth and fast: I use Maya, 3dsmax, I do compositing in Nuke (that is really a resource eater): all of them run well (as Premiere) but when I pass from an application to another, it takes a couple of seconds max to respond, to 2 minutes like when I pass to Premiere and that is my question:

                     

                    what does Premiere do in those two minutes?

                     

                     

                    thx

                     

                    Valerio

                    • 7. Re: Premiere CS5 post alt-tab freeze
                      Harm Millaard Level 7

                      Valerio,

                       

                      I agree it is a combination of hardware and PR. You have to take into consideration the memory management in a 64 bit environment and its effects on performance when multitasking, while keeping use of the pagefile to a minimum.

                       

                      In a single tasking situation PR uses whatever it can get in terms of memory, and use the pagefile as few times as possible. Now when you start another application, PR needs to release that memory for the other application to run, that data in use need to be written to disk to free it for the other application. That takes time and on a less than stellar disk I/O system it takes longer than with large and fast disk arrays or when there is more memory available. All these activities go on, while the OS is doing its regular housekeeping, background processes require attention and resources, etc.

                       

                      The Not responding message is a Windows message, not a PR message and it means that your system is busy with housekeeping. I have a decently fast middle-of-the-road system and when I have 5 relatively large webpages (each around 1.6 MB of HTML code open) plus a number of other applications open at the same time, modify each of those 5 pages and use Refresh in DW, I get the same Not responding message, especially with Live View for some time. Accept it or upgrade to better hardware. This is not a PR problem, but a hardware/system problem.

                      • 8. Re: Premiere CS5 post alt-tab freeze
                        nfact

                        I just want to chime in and share my findings:

                         

                        IT IS A PREMIERE PROBLEM!

                         

                        I'm editing on Avid MC5, Final Cut and PR. And this behaviour only happens with Premiere CS5.

                         

                        I'm editing a documentary with lots of P2 footage. In fact I have about 1000 clips in my bins. If I switch to another programm and switch back to Premiere it takes !!!!19!!!! minutes to get back to a responding system. I have an Intel i7 960 with 4TB Raid5 and 24GB of RAM. So please don't tell me it is because of poor system power.

                         

                        It only happens with premiere. Premiere tries to update every single clip when switching to another programm and back. Please Adobe give us the option to switch that off!!! It is absolutely NOT POSSIBLE to edit with Premiere that way! I know that Premiere tries to examine if some files have changed (like editing an JPG in Photoshop). But we need an option to switch that behaviour off to edit large projects. The "feature" is somewhat senseless anyway because it is always possible to reload any footage that has changed.

                         

                        Is there some ini tweaking where we can switch off this behaviour? Otherwise Premiere is not a professional editing app to me as I have to wait 19 minutes if I want to to a quick export (via Media Encoder) or edit a single JPG in Photoshop.

                         

                        And BTW:

                        Premiere is NOT fetching any data to the pagefile during this behaviour there is no access to the system HD.

                         

                         

                        Regards

                        • 9. Re: Premiere CS5 post alt-tab freeze
                          sacha_G Level 1

                          I agree, still not fixed in 5.0.3:

                           

                          Other threads on this issue:

                           

                          http://forums.adobe.com/message/3104305#3104305

                          http://forums.adobe.com/thread/639220?start=50&tstart=0

                          http://forums.adobe.com/thread/634734

                           

                          And all using P2.

                           

                          Can anyone with 5.5 report any improvement in this behaviour?

                          • 10. Re: Premiere CS5 post alt-tab freeze
                            sacha_G Level 1

                            Well knock me down with a feather I think I've only just gone and found a fix - out of idle curiosity I re-wrapped 10 x P2 MXF clips content into DVCPROHD Quicktime and then imported them into a new project, and created a parallel project with the same clips for comparison, only this time the native MXF's, my not entirely scientific results are thus:

                             

                            Importing:

                            MXF - 10 seconds

                            MOV - 5 seconds

                             

                            Switching focus

                            MXF - 15 seconds

                            MOV *0* seconds*!!!

                             

                            And everything else with the MOV's is *SO MUCH FASTER*, the project loads quicker, is more responsive when dropped to the timeline, etc.etc.etc.

                             

                            Only issues I guess are whether this solution scales to 200+clip sized projects and how to handle the 4 channel audio but so far this is looking *veryveryvery* promising..

                             

                            Happy happy joy joy, etc, will report back with further findings....

                             

                            Sacha.

                            • 11. Re: Premiere CS5 post alt-tab freeze
                              SteveHoeg Adobe Employee

                              This issue should be resolved in CS5.5. If you would like you can grab the trial to verify.

                              • 12. Re: Premiere CS5 post alt-tab freeze
                                nfact Level 1

                                Steve, does that mean that all CS5 owners have to live with that bug? No update?

                                 

                                @Sasha

                                Just curious: How did you rewrap the P2 files? What software do you use for that? That could be a solution to that bug.

                                I just ended the project mentioned above. It was an absolute nightmare. I spent a whole day to export several timelines. Everytime I clicked "export" I had to wait 19 minutes to get back to a working and responding Premiere. A whole day for a few exports - that is rediculous!

                                 

                                Regards

                                • 13. Re: Premiere CS5 post alt-tab freeze
                                  MYX Level 1

                                  We too are having this problem. Our station has gone to most MXF 1080 100Mbit and some Grass Valley Intra100 stuff. We have dual quads (2.66) with 16G RAM. We were sold on speedy opperation (which in fact it is). But for folks who hop between apps (which most of us do), this is a real drag. The other side of this is, yes, we could convert everything to movs, but that's Apples bag. They want everything encoded to ProRes. We have both Premiere and FCP. The beauty of Premiere is that it will (should) take near any type of clip so all you have to worry about is telling a story. But constant stops when switching apps pulls the creativity out of it and makes it downright laborious.

                                   

                                  I would love to upgrade to CS5.5, but it took nearly a year to get 5 and all machines finally have this. It took an act of congress just to be able to purchase this one since they want FCP Studio on all machines (which I have fought tooth and nail to avoid). With the new FCP coming out it will be a near impossible sell if I have to tell them I have to update the software yet again to solve a problem that could be solved in an update. I love premiere because it lets me just edit without having to think about all the extraneous stuff. I can just focus on what I am doing. If we have to keep stopping and waiting, it kills the flow.

                                   

                                  Please fix this in the version that we already purchased. Don't make me upgrade something that should be working as it was sold.

                                   

                                  Thanks.

                                  • 14. Re: Premiere CS5 post alt-tab freeze
                                    sacha_G Level 1

                                    @nfact - initally AME - does the video fine, completely lossless rewrap but for some inexplicable reason converts the four channel audio to mono in a stereo pair.

                                     

                                    I also tried this:http://www.focusinfo.com/solutions/catalog.asp?id=213 - which did the audio fine but mucked up the output framerate and kept ditching the last frame of every exported clip (possibly causing the frame rate miscalculation)

                                     

                                    So I was just about to crack open ffmpeg/ffmbc (which does great MOV to MXF rewraps, great for FCP sourced XDCAM or HDV footage, and the inspiration for 'What happens then if you try it the other way round given CS5 is happy with P2 MOV's') when Steve posted his message.

                                     

                                    @Steve, I can't grab the trial as it doesn't seem to be available yet??

                                     

                                    Fingers crossed I really hope it does work, we were promised a fix before so forgive me if I don't break open the bubbly yet ;-)

                                     

                                    Sacha.

                                    • 15. Re: Premiere CS5 post alt-tab freeze
                                      sacha_G Level 1

                                      I am happy to confirm that *FINALLY* this bug appears to have been well and truely squished this time in 5.5 - tried a couple of my meatier P2 projects and flipping in and out is now sweet as a nut, in fact if anything it's a bit more responsive, certainly play off the space bar is noticeably quicker, even from the NAS.

                                       

                                      Thanks guys and gals for this, you've just increased my productivity muchly - a little bittersweet though given I now have to upgrade to get it.

                                       

                                      Sacha.

                                      • 16. Re: Premiere CS5 post alt-tab freeze
                                        mikeklar Level 1

                                        Add my name to the list of having the "Not Responding" message come up every time I click anywhere outside Premier Pro.  It takes 10 seconds (sometimes longer) before Premier Pro CS5 becomes available again and attempting to work before this delay is completed causes the screen to become a white tranlucent which will change back to normal after the 10 second delay.  The Not Responding message is displayed after about 5 seconds

                                        The computer in question is Win7 x64 with an i950 processor, 24 GB of ram and a four drive RAID 5 configuration.

                                         

                                        On the good side, from what has been written here it looks like in PP CS5.5 this issue is resolved. 

                                        This makes having acquired PP CS5.5 a little easier to swallow.  Now if only Adobe would deliver the DVDs... Yes I know it can be downloaded, but I really don't want to download the Master Suite trial version this time while I'm waiting for the DVDs

                                        Cheers,

                                        Michael

                                         

                                        Ps. when editing with a file from an external RAID volume, connected via Silicon Image Sil 3132 SATALink Controller, the "Not Responding" message takes more than 13 seconds to get back to normal.