9 Replies Latest reply on Apr 7, 2011 9:07 AM by AtonMusic

    Codec Question

    Lukabrazzi Level 1

      I've been exporting some MPG2 files, which I thought was a pretty universal format these days, but not everyone in my office can open them.  Windows Media Player tells them that they're missing a codec.  The export settings list the codec as "MainConcept MPEG Video".  My question is, are there many MPG codecs, or is this THE MPG codec?  If one downloads the latest WMP updates, shouldn't it be able to run an MPG?  My version even runs AVCHD files, so I wonder why MPG should be a problem even for slightly older versions.  Of course, my ignorance can be breathtaking at times.  Anyway, is the problem in what I'm exporting or is the problem with what they're running, which I think is WMP version 10 on Win XP?  For what it's worth, I'm running Windows 7 64bit with WMP 12.

       

      <rant> As an aside, why so many codecs anyway?  Couldn't we just have 3 - 5 file formats and codecs to cover everything?  I mean, the only delivery mechanisms in general use at this point are DVD, BluRay, web, and smart phones, right?  Seems like one format should be ideal for each application, at which point were just talking about tweaking compression settings.  It seems like this topic doesn't need to be as confusing as it is. </rant>

       

      Whew.  Got that out of my system.  Thanks in advance for any insight, folks.

        • 1. Re: Codec Question
          Mylenium Most Valuable Participant

          I've been exporting some MPG2 files, which I thought was a pretty universal format these days

           

          It is.

           

          but not everyone in my office can open them.

           

          Yes, they don't have a suitable CoDec. Traditionally, Windows XP relies on third-party CoDecs due to licensing cost associated with using it - just like the AE trial cannot produce it for same reason.

           

          If one downloads the latest WMP updates, shouldn't it be able to run an MPG?

           

          No. See previous comment. Your fix is not Microsoft, it's a DVD player software or an app like VLC or ffmpeg that use their own decoders.

           

          Mylenium

          • 2. Re: Codec Question
            Dave LaRonde Level 6

            Lukabrazzi wrote:

            As an aside, why so many codecs anyway?  Couldn't we just have 3 - 5 file formats and codecs to cover everything?  I mean, the only delivery mechanisms in general use at this point are DVD, BluRay, web, and smart phones, right?

             

            If that were true, no one would be using AE to do work on Hollywood movies, independent films, for delivery to broadcasters using any number of different nonlinear editing systems, for playback on laptop computers at trade shows, for multiscreen presentations at corporate meetings, for animated billboards....

             

            ....you get the idea. 

             

            AE is used by far more different types of multimedia producers than you've been exposed to so far, and they all have their specific needs and requirements.  Hence, a wide diversity of codecs.

            • 3. Re: Codec Question
              AtonMusic Level 2

              Dave LaRonde wrote:

               

              Lukabrazzi wrote:

              As an aside, why so many codecs anyway?  Couldn't we just have 3 - 5 file formats and codecs to cover everything?  I mean, the only delivery mechanisms in general use at this point are DVD, BluRay, web, and smart phones, right?

               

              If that were true, no one would be using AE to do work on Hollywood movies, independent films, for delivery to broadcasters using any number of different nonlinear editing systems, for playback on laptop computers at trade shows, for multiscreen presentations at corporate meetings, for animated billboards....

               

              ....you get the idea. 

               

              AE is used by far more different types of multimedia producers than you've been exposed to so far, and they all have their specific needs and requirements.  Hence, a wide diversity of codecs.

              Hi,

               

              I stem from the pro audio industry. Over there, the manufacturers seem to be a little more organized.

              We've got 3 'Codecs' that we use. AIFF - WAVE - MP3

               

               

              In the video industry there are a million codecs around and they are ALL poorly documented and most are crappy as H***.

               

              OK... Video is more Processor intensive than audio... Get over it. Build your hardware so it matches that of a generally accepted codec.

              Many Camera producers like ARRI are finally getting the idea. They are building cameras recording directly to ProRes 4444.

               

              Imagine the audio industry being as ignorant as the video industry. We'd have every little manufacturer running around building his own audio codec,

              persisting that HIS codec is BEEEETTER than all the rest. I think the video industry heard Tina Turner's 'Simply The Best' once too MANY.

               

              Here in the VID ind. you have a bunch of small time companies releasing PAID codecs luring the unknown into thinking that THIS will give him better quality and performance. BS...

               

              I could NOT give a flying F*** about the brand or NAME of the codec I use... It is a CODEC for petes sake. And as of NOW... All those codex are doing are GETTING IN THE WAY OF CREATIVITY. Then you have THAT great codec for your NLE of choice.. And you are a happy camper... UUUUntil you enter After Effects and find out that its render engine has HUGE trouble with ProRes 4444... Now what do I do... Should I dump my NLE so that I can work in AE or should I look for an alt. to AE... OK... I am going to dump my NLE and find another that jails nicely with AE... Oh... There ARE none... What do I do now... OK ... Let's look for another codec that  works with both.. GREAT... I found one.. Costs $799 but what the heck they promise that it works. Then you download the trial and find out that it doesn't...

               

              There is CHAOS at best in the Film/Video industry. But that is changing slowly...

               

              I am a perfectionist and I can find a HUGE scratch in a freshly un-wrapped iPad display, where there is none. The only lossy codec out there today with archive-grade-quality after 8 generations of encoding is.... Drum Whirl...... ProRes. Great in performance and looks like the ORIGINAL source without that Mosquito SWARM of noise that all the others are producing (AVIDs DNxHD is also fantastic)..... But thats it...

               

              So there you go. TWO intermiate/archival codecs and they ALREADY exist. Throw in H264 and you have your AIF, WAV & MP3 of the Audio Industry.

              All the industry has got to do is accept that and move on... Because today I feel like the codec war is getting in MY way of being creative. And in the way of great creative and intuitive software like PPRO and AE.

               

               

              Just my 1000,0000 cents... but this here topic is getting on my beeber...

              • 4. Re: Codec Question
                Mylenium Most Valuable Participant

                ...but then again, none of your points regarding ProRes make any sense as long as Apple refuses to support it on any platform and companies reverse-engineer things to make it work in their apps, which from where I stand is just as evil as any custom CoDec - you cannot rely on ProRes out of app A being the same as ProRes out of app B and ProRes isn't even working consistently on Mac...

                 

                Mylenium

                • 5. Re: Codec Question
                  AtonMusic Level 2

                  Mylenium wrote:

                   

                  ...but then again, none of your points regarding ProRes make any sense as long as Apple refuses to support it on any platform and companies reverse-engineer things to make it work in their apps, which from where I stand is just as evil as any custom CoDec - you cannot rely on ProRes out of app A being the same as ProRes out of app B and ProRes isn't even working consistently on Mac...

                   

                  Mylenium

                  Ehmmmm... The essence of my post was CLEARLY not about the ProRes Codec..... It was about the Vid Industry and their 'stubborness' in hindering progress.......

                   

                   

                   

                  To ProRes

                   

                  ProRes IS working consistently on Mac. When used with Compressor and FCP.

                   

                  There are two solutions here:

                   

                  1) Blame it all on the other guys and KEEP your clients unhappy

                   

                  2) Disregard Apple and quit relying on the other guy to fix the problem and come up with a useful solution to the problem and keep your customers HAPPY

                   

                   

                  Or bite the bullet and face the consequences of voiding a codec all together. Perhaps like apple did when excluding Flash from their iOS....

                  Many were sour at apple for doing this but in the end Flash IS a total resource "eater" and in the end I have not missed Flash one bit. So one could say, they made the right decision.

                   

                  ONE thing is for sure... If you support SOMETHING (Quicktime) then do it 100% or NOT AT ALL.


                  THAT is what makes out a PROFESSIONAL solution. Not the Fancy name 'PRO' nor the icons disguising the app.

                  • 6. Re: Codec Question
                    Rick Gerard Adobe Community Professional & MVP

                    There have been and continue to be gamma problems between acquisition codecs, production codecs, and delivery codec in FCP and Apple Compressor. This is not a problem unique to Adobe. There are work arounds, but when Apple cut back on their support and development of QuickTime Pro (the paid upgrade) and bundled some of the capabilities inside the QT supplied with Show Leopard, these problems started to crop up. Could there be better integration? Sure! Is  Adobe the only bad guy in this puzzle? Nope.

                    • 7. Re: Codec Question
                      AtonMusic Level 2

                      Rick Gerard wrote:

                      Could there be better integration? Sure! Is  Adobe the only bad guy in this puzzle? Nope.

                      Agreed 100%....

                       

                      I think adobes products are superior to Apples - especially regarding the intuitiveness of their app. FCP (IMO) behaves like a dinosaur compare to premiere pro. And after effects... Well we all know this app is photoshop for video.

                       

                      What I am trying to say is;

                       

                      If apple is causing trouble for adobe and that adobe cannot provide pristine support for quicktime because of apples negligence... Then, regardless of how painful and the consequences.... It is time to move on and leave the dead fish in the water.

                       

                      Dump Quicktime. Come up with something new. The market WILL adapt and that faster than one'd think. Best example was iPhone not utilizing flash.

                      What happened was that everyone thought it would be a draw-back in the fist months it was. But this development has furthered the implementation of JAVA scripting. And that globally. 4 years ago whenever you saw a great menu on a website chances were 1000000 to 1 that it was flash. Today, chances are 100000 to 1 that is is JAVA Script. And that has lots to do with Apple saying NO to flash on the iOS.

                       

                      Is quicktime a bugger... Y E S... A big one. But if NO ONE does anything about it - things will get a lot worse. Adobe is great and a huge player in the industry.

                      If they were to develop something new and totally dump quicktime support... THAT Would set a corner-stone in the industry and I bet that LOTS (Most are developers HATE QT) would follow suit. Because ONE giant made the first move. That would apply pressure on Apple... LOTS...

                       

                       

                      But as of now, adobe is 'supporting' quicktime with all its caveats. And instead of being proactive about it they just blame apple (which they can) and the end result is that WE the USERS are having problems.... OK... Blame Apple but ask yourself - IS THAT GOING TO CHANGE ANYTHING... Likely NOT...

                      So do you wanna get busy blaming or busy SOLVING.....

                       

                      One thing that has serve me well in my life... DONT sit around blaming others for your own misfortune... Disregard what doesn't work and find ways that do.....

                      • 8. Re: Codec Question
                        Dave LaRonde Level 6

                        AtonMusic wrote:

                        ut as of now, adobe is 'supporting' quicktime with all its caveats. And instead of being proactive about it they just blame apple (which they can) and the end result is that WE the USERS are having problems.... OK... Blame Apple but ask yourself - IS THAT GOING TO CHANGE ANYTHING... Likely NOT...

                        So do you wanna get busy blaming or busy SOLVING.....

                         

                        Yeah, yeah, yeah.  You want to tilt at windmills?  Knock yourself out, pal.  It's been this way for YEARS, just with different codecs.  The circus is always the same; only the clowns change.  It just so happens that at this moment, you happen to like ProRes The Clown. 

                        Oh, but wait: there's this different circus in town with it's own teriffic clown: they call him DNxHD.

                         

                        Unless you come up with a way to impose unequivocal, arbitrary rules on companies currently engaged in free trade, things ain't changing... and isn't that what dictators are known for doing, anyway?

                         

                        And multimedia isn't the only industry to suffer from this lack of universality.  There are about eight different gauges for rails on railroads around the world -- dumb, it hinders international trade.  Some countries drive on the left side of the road, some on the right -- dumb, why can they just pick one and be done with it?

                         

                        Things aren't going to change in the proprietary codec arena until companies' customers get sick of the situation, and the companies see a downturn in business.  So I urge you to keep on complaining, and vote for the companies you like with your pocketbook.

                        • 9. Re: Codec Question
                          AtonMusic Level 2

                          Dave LaRonde wrote:

                           

                          Things aren't going to change in the proprietary codec arena until companies' customers get sick of the situation, and the companies see a downturn in business.  So I urge you to keep on complaining, and vote for the companies you like with your pocketbook.

                          Dave,

                           

                          where are you living.... Customers ARE sick of the situation. Dog Sick.

                           

                           

                          your attitude isn't ever going to change anything nor will it EVER spark the BRAIN that WILL change things.

                           

                           

                          Rather than applying your wisdom (I mean that - been reading MANY of your postings) to the analyzation of the situation your could be utilizing your knowledge

                          and wisdom in a creative way (Coming up with a solution) rather than being part of the problem...

                           

                          Alsways like this in this world.... WE CAN ALL SPOT THE PROBLEM but we aint willing to contribute with a solution. PAL.....