9 Replies Latest reply: Apr 8, 2011 5:44 PM by Sharingene RSS

    Help - Help!  With color issues!

    Sharingene Community Member

      Let me start by saying I calibrate my monitor with an X-Rite eye-one display 2.  I also soft proof my images with the output color profile.  But I will admit to being fairly new to printing and wonder if I am missing some basic step in the process that is resulting in the awful print I just received from an online canvas printing company.

       

      Here's what happened.  I downloaded the color profile for this company and soft proofed using their profile.  When viewing my image with their profile--some of the colors looked horrible--the tropical greens and yellows look horrendous compared to how the image normally looks on my monitor.  I realize a monitor produces more colors than printed material so I expected some color shifts, but this is pretty dramatic.  It completely reminded me of CMYK issues I've dealt with when producing color brochures, but in the end, I've always been able to compensate for these color shifts with some adjustments.  Typically, I make some selective color and levels adjustments to these specific areas.  With this company's particular color profile, it was difficult to get the colors closer to the original image, but still, I felt fairly satisfied with my attempt.  After making adjustments, I converted the image to their color profile and saved this copy to upload to their service. 

       

      I received my 30 x 45 canvas yesterday and--ugh--what an utter waste of money!  Immediately, I pulled the image back into PS to see if what I'd sent them could have looked as awful as what I received.  But here's the really weird part that totally confounds me...  I saved one version of the image without the color conversion, and one with the color conversion. When the "Open" dialogue box in Photoshop came up, I could see these two thumbnails side by side.  The one with the color conversion definitely looked odd and in fact it pretty much resembled the ugly result they to sent me, BUT after clicking on it and opening it in Photoshop--it looked different.  The strange color cast I could see in the small thumbnail (and on the huge canvas print) were not apparent.  I am completely mystified as to what is going on here.  When I first saw that thumbnail looking just like the ugly print, I felt at fault.  Yet once the image opened in PS it didn't look that way anymore.  I am at an utter, frustated loss!  What I DO know is I can't afford another trial-and-error result like this again on large canvas!  I'm wondering if I'd be better off not using their profile at all, doing no conversions, and no color adjustments.

       

      Can anyone see where I might be going wrong in the soft-proofing/ conversion process?  And secondly--why in the world would the thumbnail in the open dialogue box be showing an exact replica of the ugly canvas I received, but once fully open in Photoshop this color cast disappears?  PLEASE HELP!!!  Any insights would be so very appreciated!

        • 1. Re: Help - Help!  With color issues!
          Noel Carboni Community Member

          Does the print house say anything about what color space you should send the images to them with?

           

          Many places expect an sRGB document.

           

          Don't count on the people working in a print shop knowing even as much about color profiles as you do!

           

          -Noel

          • 2. Re: Help - Help!  With color issues!
            Donald Reese Community Member

            Try mpix and checkmark- do not color correct when you order. their work is outstanding and always matches my files exactly when i follow that procedure. just a suggestion and i have no affiliation with them.

            • 3. Re: Help - Help!  With color issues!
              Sharingene Community Member

              My understanding is that you should convert to their color profile.  However this company also does a lot of printing for the general public, so I am wondering if it's possible their software may not recognize that my image has already been converted to their profile and is possbibly converting it again? -- I have no idea! When I send them questions their replies are very short and general--I get the feeling that the person on the other end is not particularly techincally oriented in terms of color management.  Their website just provides basic info on how to submit images. 

              • 4. Re: Help - Help!  With color issues!
                emil emil Community Member

                edited: I removed my original reply as it may confuse you the way I put it,

                 

                basically to say it in other words, make sure that when you are custom soft proofing "Preserve Numbers" is not checked, otherwise soft proofing is the same as assigning profile and not converting to it.

                 

                I would also recommend to avoid soft proofing and just use convert to profile and then if necessary make color corrections.

                • 5. Re: Help - Help!  With color issues!
                  Noel Carboni Community Member

                  Sharingene wrote:

                   

                   

                  why in the world would the thumbnail in the open dialogue box be showing an exact replica of the ugly canvas I received, but once fully open in Photoshop this color cast disappears?

                   

                  That sounds suspiciously like the RGB values are being sent without color-management to your monitor, which may be similar to sRGB.  If the print shop [mis]interpreted the image you sent as sRGB, it could look similar.

                   

                  -Noel

                  • 6. Re: Help - Help!  With color issues!
                    emil emil Community Member

                    I just checked that the the thumbnails in the Photoshop dialogue box are not color managed.

                    If the native space of the monitor Sharingene is using is close to sRGB this means that athe printer was interpreting the values not according to the profile attached but assuming the values as sRGB. If that's the case Sharingene should convert the image to sRGB color space for printing. But first try to confirm that with the printing place.

                    • 7. Re: Help - Help!  With color issues!
                      Sharingene Community Member

                      Hi Noel,

                       

                      Thank you for noticing that part of my question--because it is that particular detail has me baffled.  However, I'm not sure if I'm quite following your explanation as to the cause.  Is there some kind of setting I should be checking on my set up?  Wouldn't calibrating my monitor ensure that everything is communicating properly?  I just don't understand why that little thumbnail looks so odd (though just like the canvas I received).  Yet when I click on it to select it and open it, the thumbnail then shows up at the bottom of the open dialogue box looking normal, and once completely opened in Photoshop it also looks normal.

                       

                      Here's another potential clue.  I worked with this company on one other occasion and their system had real problems using Internet Explorer (IE8). In fact they had to re-do the first images I uploaded, not only were there color issues but the images were also distorted vertically.  When they re-did these prints for me the second time, instead of having me upload through their website they had me send them directly to their company through a link at You-Send it.  These second prints came back great without distortion and were a very close color match to the soft-proofed version.

                       

                      When I asked them if they knew what the issue was (so I could have confidence placing future orders) they said to use Chrome or Firefox for uploading to their website (and now have even added this suggestion to their website).  So on this latest go-around I used Chrome and everything seemed to work much better (it was quite obvious with IE8 that something was wrong).  Yet now I have these funny looking color casts again like on the first order (though no vertical distortion).

                       

                      Now I'm beginning to wonder if when uploading to their website, maybe I shouldn't be converting my image to their color profile--maybe there IS a glitch in their uploading system and it is not recognizing the attached color profile--and as Emil said in the last post, instead it's assuming the values as sRGB. 

                       

                      Please share your thoughts!  I think we may be getting somewhere--thank you!  At least on Monday I will be able to more clearly explain to them what I think is going on--and I'm starting to think this issue isn't totally my fault.   ????

                      • 8. Re: Help - Help!  With color issues!
                        emil emil Community Member

                        How are you sending the file? I doubt browsers can modify files unless you are uploading as an image which would be weird.

                         

                        Try this with your image, open the file that you sent to print and Edit > Assign sRGB profile to it. If the image looks the same (bad) as the print, this means that they printed it by assuming it is sRGB and not what the profile says.

                        • 9. Re: Help - Help!  With color issues!
                          Sharingene Community Member

                          Hi emil,

                          Between your and Noel's replies, and thinking about my last go around with this company, I think the problem IS that their system is not reading the embedded profile and IS assuming it is in sRGB.  Which then tells me I should not be converting to their color profile when I upload to their site.  Instead I should be soft proofing to their profile, but leaving it in sRGB  (except that my default color space is Adobe RGB)!  So maybe I should convert to sRGB, soft proof and adjust to their profile, then leave as is.....?!?!

                           

                          Somehow I think their system, as you mentioned, is not recognizing the embedded profile and is instead seeing all uploads as sRGB files.  I will see if I can get a confirmation on this on Monday from them.  As mentioned earlier, when I sent the file directly to a person (instead of uploading through their website) these prints turned out great--someone on the other end was able to see they were already converted, whereas the automated system did not. --Just guessing, but I think we're on to something!

                           

                          I tried your experiment, but because Photoshop is recognizing the embedded profile as a CMYK profile, it is not allowing me to assign it to sRGB--it's not an option.  I thought maybe I could do basically do the same thing by going to "View" and changing the proof set up to sRGB, but this seemed to have no effect on color.

                           

                          Thank you so much for your ideas, time and thoughts!  I know I am much closer to figuring out what went wrong!

                           

                          Oh, as to your question about sending the file, their website has an automated system for uploading your image--this is where the whole IE8 thing came up last time.  Now on their site, they even have a notice that reads, "If you're an Internet Explorer user and having trouble uploading your image to our site, try using Chrome or Firefox instead."  So when I had problems last time, instead of having me upload through their site, they had me send it directly to a person using "You Send It" services.  Thanks again!