21 Replies Latest reply on Apr 15, 2011 8:23 AM by reteb

    Too slow PPBM5 time line  rendering times ( CUDA and software )

    reteb

      My system (*) shows a problem in the Time Line rendering time(s), in software as well as in MPE-CUDA. ( however, the other three PPBM5 tests are very acceptable, see underneath ).

       

      I tried all possible 1, 2 , 3 , 4, 5  disk configurations ( as per Harm's Disk Setup Guide )  but in none of them I got an acceptable result for the Time Line rendering time.
      I have been experimenting with this problem for many days now and I am about to give up.

       

      In " PPBM(5) benchmark.pr " the Disk I/O , the MPEG2.DVD and the H.264 time are quite acceptable, i.e. at best  resp. 73, 30 and 78 sec
      However, the Time Line render times are very disappointing, i.e. at best 120 sec SW and with CUDA 40 sec.
      Most peculiar is that, after slowing down the CPU from 4,2 GHz to ~3 GHz, the software time line rendering time increases obviously considerably but the CUDA rendering time maintains its low 3:1 ratio, while with a lower software rendering time, rendering with CUDA should produce a better ratio than the said 3:1 .
      Obviously, in my system, something is wrong with the GTX 40 CUDA performance, but also with the software time line rendering time.

       

      As said above, I emphasize, in contrast to this, the other three PPBM5 test results are fair enough ( at least for my system ).

       

      I must assume the PCI-e highway CPU-GPU and vice versa is OK.
      MY PCI-e GPU card GTX 460 @ 960 MHz ( 1GB ) ranks very high within the 460 benchmark class of the PassMark en Furmark GPU tests ( I reproduced these tests several times ).

       

      Also my CPU I7 950 @ 4,2 GHz ranks high ( highest but one in the PassMark test ) within the i7 950 benchmarks class.

       

      The 24 GB memory speed also tested very well in the real time benchmarks.

       

      So, I wonder, if the CPU and the GPU and the PCI-e as well as the 24Gb RAM all work OK , what else could be the reason for the slow Time Line CUDA render times  ( having configured the various disks cf Harm's Guide ).

       

      Obviously, my GTX 460's CUDA does do something, but no better than 3 times the ( slow ) software rendering time.
      And even the software rendering time itself is also slow ( at best 125 sec in PPBM5 Benchmark.pr ).

       

      If necessary I am ready to replace another GX 460 or even to build a new system with another mobo, but I am afraid, with respect to the abovesaid, this will not cure the problem and I would regret to waste unnecessary money and time.

       

      So, what else could I investigate to improve the Time Line rendering performance.
      Although Premiere ( and AE as well ) runs very nice compared to my old system, I definitely do need a better CUDA timeline rendering ( CUDA was the main reason for me to buy my  present system ).
      Comparing to the PPBM5 Benchmark results list,  my system's Time Line MPE-CUDA rendering should be in the 7 sec. range ( such as several i7 950/GTX460 systems on the PPBM5 Benchmark list show ) instead of my 40 sec now.

       

      Any help would be greatly appreciated.

       

      (*)
      - W7 ultimate
      - CS5 Premiere 5.0.3
      -  i7 950 @ 4,2 GHz ( 21 x 200 ), 24/7 stable,
      - GTX 460 @ 960 MHz ( MSI Hawk ), 24/7 stable,
      - 24 GB RAM Kingston 1600
      - 3 x Raptor 300 GB in RAID 0
      - 2 x 1 TB disks
      - mobo ASROCK X58 Extreme 6
      - Cooler Master Silent Pro 1000 W

        • 1. Re: Too slow PPBM5 time line  rendering times ( CUDA and software )
          ECBowen Most Valuable Participant

          What Nvidia driver version are you running and did you upgrade from a previous driver or clean install?

           

          Eric

          ADK

          • 2. Re: Too slow PPBM5 time line  rendering times ( CUDA and software )
            JEShort01 Level 4

            Retab,

             

            Sounds curious indeed!

             

            How exactly have you set up all your drives and where are you assigning EVERYTHING when your run PPBM5?

             

            For example:

            c: (1TB WD Black 7200 on Intel onboard port): OS, Programs

            d: (3x300GB Velociraptors - 300GB Raptor??? using Intel Matrix RAID configured as RAID0: single partition, 4k cluster size, indexing turned off, Win7 buffer caching ON, write flushing OFF, etc.): project, CS5 media cache, CS5 media cache DB, all 4 Project setting scratch settings

            e: (1TB WD Black 7200 on Intel onboard port): OS swapfile

             

            Also, have you benched your individual drive arrays; HD tune Pro is pretty good (set to 2MB size for read test)

             

            Jim

            • 3. Re: Too slow PPBM5 time line  rendering times ( CUDA and software )
              reteb Level 1

              At first driver 259.22.

              Afterwards installed new OS > clean install driver 261.

              • 4. Re: Too slow PPBM5 time line  rendering times ( CUDA and software )
                ECBowen Most Valuable Participant

                Uninstall that driver completely and then restart. Make sure it loads the standard VGA driver after restart. If it doesn't, then uninstall the next Nvidia driver it loads and then restart again. Once you have the standard VGA driver installed then install the Nvidia 266.58 version from their website.

                 

                Eric

                ADK

                • 5. Re: Too slow PPBM5 time line  rendering times ( CUDA and software )
                  JEShort01 Level 4

                  Agree w/ Eric's suggestion to use 266.58, however I would comment too that I achieved a 5 sec. MPE timeline render time on:

                  GTX Hawk at 850MHz (same card, slower than yours)

                  i7-860 at 4GHz (slower processor, bus than yours)

                  16GB RAM (less than your 24GB and also at 1600MHz)

                   

                  and that was using the Nvidia 259.22 (early special Hawk release to all for full use of MSI Afterburner tuning application.

                   

                  Unless the driver installation was corrupt, and that is a possibility for sure, your result should not be so slow!

                   

                  Jim

                  • 6. Re: Too slow PPBM5 time line  rendering times ( CUDA and software )
                    reteb Level 1

                    After deinstalling driver 261 and installing 266 the MPE enabled time line render time remains about the same and shows now 43 sec......

                     

                    I tried ( multiple times ) three different NVIDIA drivers ( and the HAWK's Afterburner dedicated 259 ) now and I guess I must rule out the possibility of an improper or corrupt driver.

                     

                    At this moment I have no clue as where to look further...

                     

                    I'll  have a look into my notes about my various disk config installations, but as I recall by heart already now all of those various disk configs were properly done and produced all of them this weird long Time Line rendering time, whereas the other  three PPBM benchmark results were always very acceptable ( somewhat depending upon the disk config used ) as stated in my original posting.

                     

                    I am pretty confused about this MPE issue since the PPBM's Disk I/O, the MPEG.DVD and the H.264 tests are so satisfying ( relatively to my systems specs ).

                     

                    Meanwhile I am open to any  more comments.

                    I must resolve the problem since I had this computer assembled for the only purpose of the MPE-CUDA time line rendering speed which I now lack so,sadly.

                    • 7. Re: Too slow PPBM5 time line  rendering times ( CUDA and software )
                      JEShort01 Level 4
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                      JEShort01 wrote:

                       

                      Retab,

                       

                      Sounds curious indeed!

                       

                      How exactly have you set up all your drives and where are you assigning EVERYTHING when your run PPBM5?

                       

                      For example:

                      c: (1TB WD Black 7200 on Intel onboard port): OS, Programs

                      d: (3x300GB Velociraptors - 300GB Raptor??? using Intel Matrix RAID configured as RAID0: single partition, 4k cluster size, indexing turned off, Win7 buffer caching ON, write flushing OFF, etc.): project, CS5 media cache, CS5 media cache DB, all 4 Project setting scratch settings

                      e: (1TB WD Black 7200 on Intel onboard port): OS swapfile

                       

                      Also, have you benched your individual drive arrays; HD tune Pro is pretty good (set to 2MB size for read test)

                       

                      Jim

                       

                      Retab,

                       

                      I would genuinely like to try and help you out, please answer the previous query regarding your drive setup and configuration details.

                       

                      Thanks,

                       

                      Jim

                      • 8. Re: Too slow PPBM5 time line  rendering times ( CUDA and software )
                        reteb Level 1

                        Jim,

                         

                        Thanks,

                         

                        I intended already to dig up my ( many ) disk config installation notes in order to reconstruct things.

                        I revert after dinner here.

                         

                        Peter.

                        • 9. Re: Too slow PPBM5 time line  rendering times ( CUDA and software )
                          reteb Level 1

                          Jim, This is what I did. I use 6 ( and 3 spare ones ) backplane frontloading HDD bays and I can quickly add/delete/swap disks up to 6 ( or 9 ) pcs. My mobo offers 6 SATAII ports and 6 more SATA3 ports, 2 of them Marvell 9128 RAID ports and 4 more SATA3 Marvell 9120 non RAID ports. Up to now I used only the SATAII ports (*) No hardware RAID controller used ( for speed I use RAID 0 only and backup separately ). Conform Harms " Generic Guideline for Disk Usage " I tried his disk configs ## 1,2,3,4. For the 4-disk setup I tried C-(D+F)-E as well as C-(D+F)-E I assumed in Harms disk configs the semantics are : ( but I got no confirmation about this  ) : OS                  : WIN 7 64 Ultimate Programs          : here I installed CS5 Pagefile            : the recommended 36 GB ( per relevant disk )  in Windows manual Page File Management Media              : whatever I should have to import as MPEG2, H.264, MP3 etc., do I use this in PPBM5 ?  I did not since I assume the PPBM5's media are situated in " Trimmed Benchmark " Media Cache    : edit>preferences>Media Cache Files and Media Cache Data Base : Exports            : the AME rendered MPEG2 , H. 264 etc files Projects          : PPBM directory Previews          : as prescribed in PPBM5's Readme : default " same as Projects " in Projects>Project Settings>General " though I am puzzled about this since the Disk Setup Guidelines prescribes " Previews " to non programs disks and that seems to be to me contradictory, please explain where I think obviously wrongly. I think,  but am not sure, that these semantic allocations are in accordance with the intention of Harm's Guidelines. Here I skip my other disk set ups ( they did not offer a better MPE render time ) and I confine to the two configs which offered the best results ( in PPBM5 seconds : 73 OK , 30 OK , 78 OK, 40 ( faulty ), 120-140 ( faulty ). a. OS on 1x HDD 7200 and all the rest on 3x 300 GB Velociraptor 10 K in RAid 0 AT 3 sataII Intel RAID ports ( single partition , 128k clusters , indexing off, W7 buffer cache ON , write flushing etc. unknown, if necessary I will find ) b. everything on only 1 VD : 3 x 300 GB Raptor 10k SATAII Intell RAID 0 If an unlikely hardware flaw would be the culprit of my MPE issue, it will be hard to convince the computer seller to swap under warranty one or more components, since I have no clue of evidence or suspection which component(s) would be at stake. The computer and all of its components are brand new under 12-36 months warranty. Hope I didn't oversee any relevant detail. Thanks for your time. Peter. (*) BTW : I tried also a 5 disk set up with 2 separate RAID 0 arrays, the second one on two SATA3  Marvell 9128 RAID ports but I renounced midway since I wanted to see the MPE time line render time  acceptable at first in one of the other set ups before any further experimentation to decrease the  MPE time line render time.

                          • 10. Re: Too slow PPBM5 time line  rendering times ( CUDA and software )
                            reteb Level 1

                            Sorry Jim,.

                             

                            Something went wrong with the editor.

                            Pity there is no preview facility on this forum.

                             

                            Hope you can read it otherwise I will rewrite properly on Wednesday ( it's 01.45 lt here in Amsterdam and I am invited urgently to go to bed now ).`

                             

                            I forgot : the separate disks I/O speeds are ( contiguously in Crystal disk benchmark ) for the 2 identical 7200 disks ~ 80 MBs and for the 300 GB 3R0 10k Raptors ~ 360 MBs. 

                             

                            Peter.

                             

                            Message was edited by: reteb

                            • 11. Re: Too slow PPBM5 time line  rendering times ( CUDA and software )
                              Bill Gehrke Adobe Community Professional & MVP

                              Peter,

                               

                              1.  I doubt it could have anything with your disk system as your disk intensive AVI Encoding score of 73 is in the top 10% of the returns posted.  Since Render Timeline is the first test that is run I have seen on a virgin disk drive one or two occasions a score that rather than my normal 4-5 seconds (4.2 GHz i7-980X with a really big RAID) I have seen as high as 10 seconds.

                               

                              2.  I have gone over my own several hundred PPBM5 runs to see what might affect the Render Timeline with hardware acceleration score and found only two factors that have hurt my RT scores.

                               

                              2.1  First, when I tested six different CUDA/MPE boards and the score for RT with a 1GB 9500 GT went from a minimum of 4-5 seconds to 18 seconds (4.2 GHz i7-980X), I also tested with an ATI and that score was of course the same 84 seconds that I got with every MPE software only test (266.58 driver on the CUDA boards).  Conclusion a really defective board could possibly cause a 40 seconds score.

                               

                              2.2  Second,when you lower the clock rate it of course raises the Render Timeline with MPE ON score.  But this also is a secondary issue as my high speed scores of 4-5 seconds only going to 14-15 seconds when the clock rate dropped to 2.4 GHz, so this is also insignificant.

                               

                              3.  I have gone over the 320 plus scores that have been submitted and looked for any common element with the other scores where the Render Timeline (with hardware acceleration) were abnormally high and could come to no commonality among those systems.

                               

                              Unfortunately I do not have a good answer for you.  What I would do is try to get your hands on another CUDA 1GB graphics card, any older card would be fine to just borrow plug it in and see if your score changes.

                              • 12. Re: Too slow PPBM5 time line  rendering times ( CUDA and software )
                                JEShort01 Level 4

                                Peter,

                                 

                                1) Have you tried with Hawk timings and voltages set to defaults? If not, try that first.

                                 

                                2) The standard PPBM5 MPE test is executed by hitting the Enter key, which is the same as Sequence/Render Effects in Work Area. Run the test instead from the menu and selecting the "Render Entire Work Area" instead and report how many seconds that takes on your system. Coincidently, this takes around 40 seconds on my rig, so it would be nice indeed if you have been running the test incorrectly all along!

                                 

                                Jim

                                • 13. Re: Too slow PPBM5 time line  rendering times ( CUDA and software )
                                  reteb Level 1

                                  Jim,

                                   

                                  Hit Enter ( MPE on : PPBM render timne line  " render effects in work area " ) give 40 secs, while " render entire work area " shows 65 secs.

                                  Unfortunately I did the RT " hit enter " test right.

                                   

                                  Yes, I also tested the PPBM RT ( hit enter ) with the GTX 460 Hawk in default settings @ 780 MHz ( no OC GPU speed and none of the three Afterburner extra voltages ).

                                  In these Hawk default settings the RT time is 42 secs ( MPE ) on instead of 40 secss, peculiar enough only a minor ( 5% ) increase compared to the Hawk's OC 960 MHz

                                   

                                  After having tweaked all possible settings cf the various forum advices, I fear I have to effect Bill's advice and to try another CUDA card.

                                  If that's not the culprit, I will have to rebuild quite a new system with another mobo.

                                  So sad.

                                   

                                  Anyway thanks so much for your effort.

                                   

                                  Peter.

                                  • 14. Re: Too slow PPBM5 time line  rendering times ( CUDA and software )
                                    Bill Gehrke Adobe Community Professional & MVP

                                    Peter, it is amazing what you can sometimes do by "sleeping" on a problem.  Download GPU-Z or maybe your board has a diagnostics program and monitor your 12 volts during the H.264 run.  If your 12 volts to the card drops more than a about 0.05 volt your power supply is either hooked up wrong or it is in-adequate.

                                     

                                    Just checked and your 1000 watt PS should be fine.  But still check the voltage under load.

                                    • 15. Re: Too slow PPBM5 time line  rendering times ( CUDA and software )
                                      reteb Level 1

                                      Bill,

                                       

                                      Thanks for your extensive and clear insights.

                                       

                                      My GPU-Z does not sense the 12 v line(s) but a dedicated mobo tool does.

                                      Running the H264, the 12.830 v drops to 12.778 v, no problem I guess.

                                       

                                      I consider to follow your advice and try to replace the GTX460 at first and see what  happens .

                                      Though it's enigmatic why this card performs ( non CUDA ) so well.

                                      It's a pity seller won''t replace the card since I cannot file any well founded claim against the card, I have to buy another one.

                                      If I would know for sure that this card is faulty, I could buy a 480 instead of the 460, but for now I don''t dare to do so.

                                       

                                      If another CUDA card will not cure the problem, I will build a new system with another mobo though there is no particular suspection against this mobo at present : the other three PPBM (CPU) tests perform very well ( at least for my system ) , the memory bench marks are also outstanding, the PCI-e communication seems OK as well, and all other ( non CS5 ) tests and bench marks I tried for this present system perform very well.

                                      I am puzzled.

                                       

                                      Thanks for your appreciated response.

                                       

                                      I will report what and why will happen.

                                       

                                      Peter.

                                      • 16. Re: Too slow PPBM5 time line  rendering times ( CUDA and software )
                                        Bill Gehrke Adobe Community Professional & MVP

                                        Peter, do you by any chance have any other cards installed beside your graphic card?

                                        • 17. Re: Too slow PPBM5 time line  rendering times ( CUDA and software )
                                          reteb Level 1

                                          Bill,

                                           

                                          Not in a PCI-e slot.

                                           

                                          For testing I had some National Instrument cards installed in the PCI slots ( amongst my mobo's seven PCI(e) slots I preferred also to have 2 oldschool PCI slots especially for my National Instrument cards, which slots/cards worked flawlessly )  and I removed them to another computer.

                                          So, the 460 is the only PCI(e) based card in use at present ( and six empty slots ).

                                           

                                          I may swap the 460 to another PCI-e slot ( I have three PCI-e x16 of them ) , of course this is not supposed to cure the issue ( the days of PCI interrupt problems are over ) but one never knows.

                                          At present the 460 card fits the first physical slot and touches somewhat against one of the HDD backplane bays.

                                          I recall that the guy who assembled the computer cf my detailed indications was reluctant at first to use this slot because of the backplanes until I ordered him to.

                                           

                                          Though, I have not really good hope ...

                                           

                                          Peter.

                                          • 18. Re: Too slow PPBM5 time line  rendering times ( CUDA and software )
                                            JEShort01 Level 4

                                            reteb wrote:

                                             

                                            Hit Enter ( MPE on : PPBM render timne line  " render effects in work area " ) give 40 secs, while " render entire work area " shows 65 secs.

                                             

                                            Peter,

                                             

                                            Based on this test result that you shared, I don't think that there is anything wrong at all with your video card!

                                             

                                            Here's how I'm coming up with this...

                                             

                                            On my system, when I do the PPBM5 MPE test, it runs in 4 seconds. Then, when I render the entire work area, it takes 43 seconds which is almost 11 times slower. Since when you rendered the whole timeline in only 65 seconds, which seems very in line with your other PPBM5 results, this would indicate that your hardware is good for about a 6 second render time (for the PPBM5 MPE assisted benchmark).

                                             

                                            So, what could be causing this descrepancy? I'm not completely sure, but it could be:

                                            1) Something wrong with your PPBM5 project; try downloading it again. Note that the only parts of the timeline that should show red prior to running the MPE render test are:

                                            from 23;09 -> 24;04

                                            from 25;05 -> 26;00

                                            from 49;09 -> 50;04

                                            and

                                            from 51;05 -> 52;00

                                             

                                            2) Something set very strange in Premiere that is causing your system to do more work than is intended by the benchmark MPE render test; maybe your could try resetting all of your settings to the default settings

                                             

                                            3) Your system is infected with the new virus -- the deadly K3B-909 strain -- that makes your PC do really random things; just kidding about this one, but what you are experiencing is quite strange

                                             

                                            Jim

                                            • 19. Re: Too slow PPBM5 time line  rendering times ( CUDA and software )
                                              Bill Gehrke Adobe Community Professional & MVP

                                              Jim/Peter

                                               

                                              Jim, thanks that is a good possibility.

                                               

                                              Peter here is a picture of what JIm is talking about, notice only four short segments should be red and need to be rendered

                                               

                                              PPBM5-Timeline.jpg

                                              • 20. Re: Too slow PPBM5 time line  rendering times ( CUDA and software )
                                                reteb Level 1

                                                Bill and Jim,

                                                 

                                                Thanks for your continued efforts to resolve the mystery.

                                                 

                                                Yes, I knew the red segments in the H.264 time line though mine are a bit different i.e.  ( frame exact ) 22.00-24.10  25.05-26.00  48.00-50.10  51.05-52.00.

                                                If you have also frame exact segments I wonder why mine ar diverging.

                                                 

                                                The most interesting finding of Jim ( if his time line rendering of the entire work area is 43 secs and mine is 66 secs ) makes me think indeed my 460 MPE-CUDA ON must perform relatively well , at least in de entire work area time line rendering ( but not in de effects rendering only ).

                                                Conform Jim's math my Hit Enter should show ~6 secs instead of my - many times reproduced - 40-42 secs.

                                                Mysterious.

                                                 

                                                I have been working with Premiere for years and I checked and rechecked all settings.

                                                I also reinstalled CS5 a couple of times, though Premiere behaves - exept the MPE - absolutely flawlessly.

                                                I also downloaded and (re)installed PPBM5 several times.

                                                In order to be sure I even reinstalled  Win7 a few times.

                                                Neither of those could be corrupt I assume.

                                                During a couple of days I have also been testing an retesting my system as a whole and I cannot find any flaw.

                                                The disks, especially the 3R0 10k array, is fast enough.

                                                 

                                                My Premiere ( updated and non updated ) - besides the MPE flaw - also works OK in all respects I have tested.

                                                { BTW : AE as well : even with four heavy effect - i.e. Bend It , Blobbylize a.o. - AE preview runs the effects in real time, or near real time, I never saw this before }.

                                                I even downloaded a Premiere Trial in order to see if the trial should show the same MPE issue, it does...

                                                This rule out a hidden corruption wthin my Premiere.

                                                 

                                                I also tested the GPU burden while rendering the PPBM Timeline and I see :

                                                - rendering the entire time line : max GPU usage 77% , on the average 28 %

                                                - rendering the effects only  : max 33% , on the average 15 %

                                                 

                                                Combining the various figures I guess we can conclude that my GTX460 GPU does perform the MPE-CUDA PPBM task, at least relatively for my system, absolutely well, but lacks this normal performance heavily in rendering the effects only.

                                                 

                                                I really stay puzzled what's going on and don't know what to investigate further ...

                                                 

                                                If the OS, CS5, PPBM, the disks, the GPUcard, the PSU power lines, etc., if all of them are checked OK, what could remain as a culprit candidate ?

                                                The mobo ? Not very likely since all other test are OK ( I have been testing during nearly a week ).

                                                 

                                                Though contrecoeur ( it cannot really be the culprit, does it ? ) I still consider to buy another 460 to see what happens.

                                                A reason for the flaw must be found and I must do something.

                                                 

                                                Peter.

                                                • 21. Re: Too slow PPBM5 time line  rendering times ( CUDA and software )
                                                  reteb Level 1

                                                  I forgot, in order to exclude a RAM flaw I am testing the 24 GB RAM again with Memtest86.

                                                   

                                                  Peter.