16 Replies Latest reply on Apr 15, 2011 9:00 AM by Jim_Simon

    Subclips are way off!

    AdvanceHD Level 1

      I've never been able to use these in Premiere... I don't know why. They work perfectly in Avid Media Composer but in CS5... (or 4 for that matter) they never work for me. I needed to locate various people from within a long clip (~ 60 minutes) and I subclipped about 5 clips (around 10 seconds each) for 4 different people - 20 sublclips total.

       

      When I drag them into a new timeline they point to totally useless frames that are nowhere near the timecodes they should be. WHY?

       

      I keep believing that Premiere is ready for the big boys, but with this type of behavior I'll be surprised if they can truly win over people that need to rely on their tools - not hope and pray they MIGHT work.  What a waste of time this was for me as now I have to go back and try and find these clips again and forget about the subclip idea.

       

      Does anyone have any ideas as to what the heck is going on here?

       

      Notes:

      Captured HDCam using AJA LHi Card from within Premieres Capture window.

      Subclips were done in the Source Monitor

      Timeline was created by selecting the first subclip and dragging to the New Item button, thereby creating a timeline with the correct specs.

      When I double click the subclip it appears correct in the source monitor but when draggin to timeline it goes to some crazy nosensical location on the original file. Plus the little icon shows what seems like the right footage...

       

      ???

        • 1. Re: Subclips are way off!
          Jim_Simon Level 8

          Maybe try the process without using AJA.  See if that works.

          • 2. Re: Subclips are way off!
            the_wine_snob Level 9

            I'm with Jim on that test. I have used Sub-Clips in PrPro for some time, without the issues that you have encountered. Each was perfect, when used in a new Sequence. Until about CS3, Sub-Clips really taxed a system, and resulted in very sluggish performance, even on a stout workstation of the day. I shyed away from using them often, up through PrPro 2.0, due to the sluggish performance - but they were exactly what I needed, and perfect in every respect.

             

            Good luck, and please update the thread with your test results.

             

            Hunt

            • 3. Re: Subclips are way off!
              AdvanceHD Level 1

              Thanks Gents... Jim, if I can't capture the footage (using the AJA) then what would be the point? I am not using the AJA in terms of editing (the MPE is way too awesome!) but the clip was captured with the AJA card... unless I missunderstood what you are suggesting. Maybe I could try usings an AJA sequence instead?

               

              What currently shows up in my subclips that are on the timeline are shots from the beginning of the original file, even tho the timecodes come from throughout the entire clip. However, the thumbnails look correct and the source monitor seems to show it correctly...

               

              Will report back...

              • 4. Re: Subclips are way off!
                Colin Brougham Level 6

                What happens if you don't do this:

                Timeline was created by selecting the first subclip and dragging to the New Item button, thereby creating a timeline with the correct specs.

                 

                Does it work as you expect if you create a sequence manually, and then add the subs to the sequence directly? The method of ingesting here--and the footage for that matter--shouldn't make a difference.

                 

                FWIW, I never use subclips in Premiere. To put it simply: they suck. They are NOT implemented correctly, in my opinion, but I came from Media Composer as well, where subclips work correctly and are indeed useful. My general workflow with Premiere is to use scratch sequences that are sort of like clip bins, where I rough cut the bites I want; then I can copy/paste or drag them from that sequence to my working sequence.

                • 5. Re: Subclips are way off!
                  Colin Brougham Level 6

                  OK, I'll answer my own question: for me, at least, it works as expected even when dragging a subclip to the New Item button.

                   

                  So, let's step back a lil' bit further... how are you creating subclips? What is the step-by-step process you're following, from the moment of ingest to when you add them to the sequence? I've tried six ways from Sunday to make this misbehave (granted, without the exact type of footage you're working with, but that really shouldn't matter), and it works every time. On that note, do you get the same behavior with a totally different media source?

                  • 6. Re: Subclips are way off!
                    AdvanceHD Level 1

                    thanks Colin... I did try and create a new sequence instead and I still suffer the same fate.  It seems to me like there's a timecode reading issue and it could be coming from the AJA captured clip somehow... back when I had a blackmagic card I suffered the same... I'll try a different encoded file and see how that works...

                    • 7. Re: Subclips are way off!
                      Jim_Simon Level 8
                      then what would be the point?

                       

                      Just a test to eliminate the possibility of improper third-party behavior.  Most people don't use AJA hardware.  Most people don't have a problem with subclips.  Let's see if there's a connection somehow by eliminating AJA from the equation.

                      • 8. Re: Subclips are way off!
                        Colin Brougham Level 6

                        It seems to me like there's a timecode reading issue and it could be coming from the AJA captured clip somehow... back when I had a blackmagic card I suffered the same...

                         

                        Hmm... that very well could be. It's possible that Premiere isn't reading the actual timecode--I'm assuming these clips were captured with timecode sourced from the tape. Are these AVIs or MOVs?

                        • 9. Re: Subclips are way off!
                          AdvanceHD Level 1

                          So I've tried a new sequence based on AJA sequence settings and the problem is the same.

                           

                          I've noted that each subclip is identical on the time line and it is the first x seconds of the original clip, each one exactly the same video.

                           

                          However I am exporting each clip and this seems to work... much more time consuming and tedious.

                          • 10. Re: Subclips are way off!
                            AdvanceHD Level 1

                            Thanks Jim, I didn't mean to sound snarky there... I still need to capture video now and again so I need someway of getting the material digitised. I will experiment with P2 clips (my shooting format) as well as I'll try some different clips.

                             

                            thanks again for your assistance

                            • 11. Re: Subclips are way off!
                              AdvanceHD Level 1

                              Thanks Colin... I've tried both in the past... in this case they are MOV.


                              • 12. Re: Subclips are way off!
                                Colin Brougham Level 6

                                I've noted that each subclip is identical on the time line and it is the first x seconds of the original clip, each one exactly the same video.

                                 

                                That says to me that these clips don't have running timecode, then; in other words, each frame of the clip has the exact same timecode value.

                                 

                                Can you post a screenshot of your Project panel expanded enough to see the Media Start/End/Duration and Video In/Out/Duration columns, with a few subclips and the master clip in view?

                                • 13. Re: Subclips are way off!
                                  AdvanceHD Level 1

                                  ScreenGrab1.jpg

                                  ScreenGrab3.jpg

                                  ScreenGrab2.jpg

                                  ScreenGrab4.jpg

                                   

                                  So even tho the source mnonitor shows the correct image, and even the thumbnail indicates the correct image what I see on each clip in the timeline is exacly the same footage from the beginning of the clip:

                                  ScreenGrab5.jpg

                                   

                                  All the subclips are athletes playing basketball, yet the image that shows up is the picture of the basketball which is at the front of the footage, and each of the five clips are exactly the same (other then the length which matches the length of the subclip)

                                   

                                  The individually EXPORTED clips are correct...!!!

                                   

                                  All this footage was captured with 422 timecode from an HDCAM deck using the AJA cards (I also had this exact same problem with the Blackmagic card I used to have).

                                   

                                  My next test will be with p2 clips

                                  • 14. Re: Subclips are way off!
                                    AdvanceHD Level 1

                                    BTW I create the subclip by right-clicking the source monitor and choosing 'make subclip'.

                                    • 15. Re: Subclips are way off!
                                      Colin Brougham Level 6

                                      I'd say you've uncovered a bug, at least when working with that sort of material. It's hard to say where the bug actually is, because it almost works My guess is that once the subclips get added to the sequence, they become disconnected from the source timecode, and then just default to the first frame as their start point. Could be in the capture (e.g. AJA), or could be in Premiere.

                                       

                                      Try this: instead of making subclips, mark your clip as usual, and then drag from the Source Monitor the Project Panel, without holding down Control (which would ordinarily create a subclip). This will create a new master clip with your in and out point preserved. Continue as you did with subclipping, and then see if you can replicate this behavior. If you can, I'd suspect the AJA capture as the problem--the files themselves are borked somehow. If you can't, that suggests a bug in Premiere's editing of subclips into a sequence, at least with this sort of media.

                                       

                                      You might also try running one of your MOVs through MPEG StreamClip before adding it to Premiere. Just open one of the MOVs and select Save As; leave the type as MOV, and save a new version. This will basically just copy the video and audio and any metadata into a fresh MOV container. If that works, I'd again suspect the AJA; if it doesn't, Premiere is being naughty.

                                      • 16. Re: Subclips are way off!
                                        Jim_Simon Level 8
                                        I will experiment with P2 clips

                                         

                                        How did that go?