10 Replies Latest reply on Aug 2, 2011 1:26 AM by 2011tlnick

    Translation

    sarasota lad

      Hard to believe but when I search on "translation" in the forums nothing comes up, so .....

       

      Our Russian dealer wants to translate our Help into Russian. It's unclear at this point if they plan on doing it on their own (ughh) or outsource to an actual translation company.

       

      I checked with the translation company that did a translation for me at my last job (where the source project was in Flare).

       

      He said that they have had lots of trouble translating RoboHelp projects and basically don't do them. I don't know if that is a specific issue with the translation database they use or if it is a universal problem.

       

      Does anyone have any experience going through a translator wth RoboHelp ? Good ? Bad ? Issues ?

       

      Does RoboHelp have a translation add-on to assist translators like Flare does (Lingo) ?

       

      I have a feeling this is going to be a nightmare.

       

      Any input appreciated.

       

      John in sunny Sarasota

        • 1. Re: Translation
          RoboColum(n) Level 5

          Hi John.

           

          Robohelp does not have a Lingo style add on but translation need not be a headache because of this. It should be a case of just providing the source files to the translation agency.

           

          Colum

          From an equally sunny but slightly less deadly UK


            The RoboColum(n)   @robocolumn   Colum McAndrew
          • 2. Re: Translation
            sarasota lad Level 1

            i'm an anglophile and i've been to the UK many times, but I wouldn't be walking around in a dodgy neighborhood

            at 3 AM there either

            • 3. Re: Translation
              Peter Grainge Adobe Community Professional (Moderator)

              There are many translation agencies who specialise in RoboHelp project translation so don't be put off by one who doesn't.

               

              I wonder if this link is of help. http://www.adobe.com/devnet-archive/robohelp/articles/localized_projects.html

               


              See www.grainge.org for RoboHelp and Authoring tips

               

              @petergrainge

              • 4. Re: Translation
                453digvtm

                I found CatsCradle which lets the translator type target text without being bothered by htm code. This shareware allows to build memory files which find and replace sentences and expressions over a batch of htm files.

                 

                CatsCradle seems a cheap and friendly solution to manage translation issues.

                 

                1. Send only htm source files to translate using CatsCradle.
                2. The translator mails back translated files you will import into the matching project.
                3. Compile. That's it!
                • 5. Re: Translation
                  2011tlnick

                  Hello,

                   

                  I would like to pick this up as my employer, a software company, wants to update the application help and also add a web help to our support web site.

                   

                  Obviously, the big alternative is Flare and Lingo.

                   

                  I am puzzled why Colum, Adobe expert, refers to translation agencies, because Adobe recommends overwriting (see Peter's link and mine).

                   

                  I have done some research and SDL.com states their localisation software Passolo offer direct support for RH.

                  The only other product web site I have found is atril.com with dejavu translation software, probably the most popular one at the moment, together with kilgray.com memoQ. With popular I mean among translators. If you talk about usage, it will have to Trados.

                   

                  Peter, thanks for the link in your post. It shows that you simply overwrite the English content in another language, but refers to RH8.

                   

                  I have also bookmarked this Adobe web page.

                   

                  What I am missing is any reference to what happens about version control. This is crucial.

                   

                  From a translation perspective, I would not mind simply overwriting the native English text. If you work with projects, context is clear. There is also a dictionary and basic grammar available. Search function in RH 2002 is good: case-sensitive, decide on replacing on a case-by-case basis because you can see the paths. The only nag is the dialog window size, too small and not resizeable. But I'm talking of RH 2002.

                   

                  However, if I cannot easily detect what has been modified, I would have to recommend the Flare Lingo combination. The latter works like Beyond Compare, detects if a file has been modified, and you can find out rather quickly the sentence(s) requiring translation. I have tested it, and the linguistic capacities could be better, but to my mind detecting modifications is absolutely essential.

                   

                  For the record, we used RH2002 and Trados the last time around.

                   

                  Hope this is helpful and feedback appreciated.

                   

                  UPDATE

                  Peter's linked content refers to the workflow when content is modified on the final p.7, valid for RH8:

                  E.g. export English files for translation, translator/agency translates, import translated content.

                  Only then can the original English project be modified.
                  You keep track with RH's to-do list feature.
                  Comment: The translator can use beyond compare, to see which files have changed, but authors not being able to continue working is a killer fact.

                   

                  "In this case, do not make changes to the original project before receiving a batch of translations back. In other words, make a set of changes, submit them, get them back, and work them in to the project before making other changes to the topics in the original language. This will help you keep straight what has been translated and what hasn't. Otherwise, you'll create a mess for yourself. I recommend using RoboHelp 8's configurable To-Do List feature to manage which files have had changes, need to be translated, have been translated but need to be reviewed, and so on."

                  • 6. Re: Translation
                    Peter Grainge Adobe Community Professional (Moderator)

                    I don't think there is any fundamental difference between what is in Ben's article and what Colum has said.

                     

                    The basic workflow as I understand it is create the project in your native language and I will assume that is in English. Then create a copy for each language you are going to need, for now let's just assume you need a French version.

                     

                    You send the English and French copy (still in English at this stage) of the project to an agency to translate or you do it yourself if you have the skills within your company.

                     

                    So far nice and simple.

                     

                    Now we come to making changes to the core language version. You send the updated copy of the English version to the agency and they use specialist software that does not just identify the changes as would be the case with Beyond Compare. I believe it also identifies common phrases so that they only need to be translated once. This of course is only the case if you go to an agency specialising in translating help rather than a general translation agency. I know nothing about how Lingo fits in there.

                     

                    Agencies working with Trados who also specialise with help translation will be familiar with upgrading albeit upgrading from RH2002 is a pretty big jump. I assume you will be upgrading to deal with browser compatibility issues that you might hit regardless of language.

                     

                    The fact that you have used Trados in house does of course mean you likely will not have that same experience of handling upgraded projects and issues unique to that.

                     


                    See www.grainge.org for RoboHelp and Authoring tips

                     

                    @petergrainge

                    • 7. Re: Translation
                      Peter Grainge Adobe Community Professional (Moderator)

                      A point re changing to Flare or any other HAT. You will need to convert each language project to that HAT and you need to factor in any issues you may encounter with that work.

                       

                      I know Flare can handle converting projects but check it will handle projects from as far back as RH2002.

                       


                      See www.grainge.org for RoboHelp and Authoring tips

                       

                      @petergrainge

                      • 8. Re: Translation
                        2011tlnick Level 1

                        Hi Pete,

                         

                        Thanks for your feedback. No, we do not want to reuse the old projects unless copy and paste. We want to do something new.

                         

                        I can provide the following update.

                         

                        There is another company website stating support for RH8 in 2009, multilizer.com.

                         

                        No, we are not outsourcing anything, though we do want to think of possible future off-site translators.

                         

                        I really think RH offers a bonus with its elaborate authoring functionalities. A user guide will not be updated on a monthly basis, but would still like to see something like saving a project under a different name and then overwriting the native text in another language. It cannot be that bad having to rewrite in one language using the same application as the original author.

                         

                        I wish Adobe also had something like a contributor edition, at least for off-site authors.

                         

                        The sole problem is how to keep track of updates when overwriting the original version. Spreadsheet?

                         

                        Alternatives
                        1 A localisation software where all the strings are listed in alphabetical order. Modifications show up as new strings, current translated strings are not lost, but you do not see the context.

                        2 A translation software that is file-based, like we proceeded around 5 years ago. I would now use Beyond Compare to filter the updated HTML files. The disadvantage is that I would still need to run a file through the memory until I hit a new or modified sentence. And this is not always smooth (words not saved to memory because you do not want them, problems with tags, two spaces after full stop).

                         

                        We have now decided to go with another product that combines a tool that allows you check for modifications and offers a preview. It also has a contributor version for authoring. It does not match RH's authoring functionality, but the modification check probably clinched it and some testers found the layout and panes easier to deal with.

                         

                        Hope this is useful to anyone facing a similar situation for finding the most suitable solution to their circumstances.

                        • 9. Re: Translation
                          Peter Grainge Adobe Community Professional (Moderator)

                          You say "The sole problem is how to keep track of updates when overwriting the original version."

                           

                          My understanding is that when agencies work with Trados they feed the new version in and that tells them what has changed. You are using Trados yourselves but should be able to use it the same way.

                           


                          See www.grainge.org for RoboHelp and Authoring tips

                           

                          @petergrainge

                          • 10. Re: Translation
                            2011tlnick Level 1

                            Sorry, Pete, but there is a misunderstanding. In contrast to the two options under "Alternatives", the first option presented was one NOT using a translation or localisation software but simply creating a duplicate project and then overwrite it in an authoring software is an option if the functionalities are there. The only problem you then have is to track modifications in the original project, e.g. by using a spreadsheet or by defining a suitable status.

                             

                            Hope this helps