30 Replies Latest reply on Apr 26, 2011 1:16 PM by digitlman

    Should we Avoid QuickTime at all Costs?

    mdubuque Level 1

      Hello, an established and distinguished member of this forum recently said:

       

      "Don't use QuickTime...for anything.  Seriously, just completely uninstall it from your rig."

       

      What is some of the thinking behind this view?  I know others have also expressed very strong reservations about it as well.

       

      I don't want to start a big controversy or anything, but I would like to get up to speed on this essential issue.

       

      Thanks so much!

       

      Matt

      PS: I have a Canon 5D Mark II and shoot in H.264.... Quicktime seems to be intimately involved in my workflow somehow.....

        • 1. Re: Should we Avoid QuickTime at all Costs?
          Harm Millaard Level 7

          Matt,

           

          QT is 32 bit, so it effectively destroys the 64 bit nature of PR. There  are but a few mov wrapped files that do not require the QT32Server, the  majority cripples your PR to 32 bit.

          • 2. Re: Should we Avoid QuickTime at all Costs?
            Jim_Simon Level 8

            In addition, QuickTime has been the cause of some bugs in the past, both with performance and quality.

             

            Some people will need it installed because of the media they need to edit.  They'll have no choice but to put up with it.  But if you don't actually need it, then it may be best to simply not even install it.

            • 3. Re: Should we Avoid QuickTime at all Costs?
              mdubuque Level 1

              Thanks fellas!  Very concise and helpful.

               

              Jim, any chance you could share just a hilite or two of the bugs QT has been shown to cause?

               

              Matt

              • 4. Re: Should we Avoid QuickTime at all Costs?
                the_wine_snob Level 9

                Matt,

                 

                I have had QT Pro for decades now, and have had no issues with it coexisting on my computers. Now, I seldom use it for much, other than converting some MOV material to DV-AVI, which the Pro version does pretty well.

                 

                I work with a lot of MOV Animation Clips, from others, and they work perfectly on my PC. However, I am very seldom going the other way, unless I need to send a reference file to a Mac-only animation artist, or client.

                 

                I am also not working in HD, so only have to ingest, then convert H.264 material from others.

                 

                I have one standing rule - I never update QT, until enough reports have come it, that version ____ is stable. I had 7.5.5 on both computers for a very, very long time, and still use that on the workstation. Apple seems to love to issue updates, that kill all things Adobe. I have managed to avoid all bad versions. Those bad versions, and there have been a bunch, give QT a very bad reputation around here, and it is deserved. I just keep away from those. QT is not allowed ot auto update.

                 

                The fact that PrPro CS5 is 64-bit, and Apple still 32-bit is a reason to keep it out of your workflow, except when absolutely necessary. I almost shudder at how badly QT 64-bit will play with Adobe, when it comes about. I imagine all sorts of issues, but then I am paranoid.

                 

                Just some observations,

                 

                Hunt

                • 5. Re: Should we Avoid QuickTime at all Costs?
                  Alan Craven Level 4

                  Hunt,

                   

                  Just because you are paranoid does not mean that they are not out to get you!

                  • 6. Re: Should we Avoid QuickTime at all Costs?
                    Jim_Simon Level 8

                    I don't recall the exact issues others have experienced.  But I do recall reading that the solution seemed to be installing a version of QuickTime different than that already installed.  (And the latest is not always the best.)  Or, of course, simply uninstalling QuickTime completely and telling those Mac fanboys they need to adapt to the other 90% of the planet and give you an AVI file instead.

                     

                    The quality issue has something to do with QuickTime's mishandling of gamma.  Though as I don't need or use it at all, I am not overly familiar with the specifics.

                    • 7. Re: Should we Avoid QuickTime at all Costs?
                      John T Smith Adobe Community Professional & MVP

                      Sort'a like Torx... if you never touch a Torx head screw, don't buy a Torx screwdriver

                       

                      For my (limited to what I film) hobbyist work, CS5 by itself does everything I need... no Mov files of any kind, so no need for QT

                      • 8. Re: Should we Avoid QuickTime at all Costs?
                        the_wine_snob Level 9

                        Alan,

                         

                        I agree completely, and sometimes with Apple programs on my PC, really DO feel that they ARE out to get me. That's why I let the early-adopters go first, and when things work for them, slowly upgrade, test and monitor, with the old version close by.

                         

                        Hunt

                        • 9. Re: Should we Avoid QuickTime at all Costs?
                          the_wine_snob Level 9

                          Going back a bit, there were issues with two versions of 7.5.x (7.5.3 & 7.5.3, IIRC), but then 7.5.5 was released, and it always played well with my Adobe programs. That one was kept for maybe two years. When 7.6.x hit, again there were two versions that just did NOT play nice. Do not recall their . numbers, but it seems that 7.6.9 is working fine.

                           

                          If one has no real use for QT Player, or QT Pro, then there is no reason for installing them. I believe that all CODEC's that they install are available elsewhere, without the need to install the players.

                           

                          As many have found, QT Player is not the best player to test in. Also, some have experienced OOS issues, when using the Apple H.264 CODEC, and in most cases, either using Lead's, or MainConcept's version, did a much better job.

                           

                          Hunt

                          • 10. Re: Should we Avoid QuickTime at all Costs?
                            shooternz Level 6

                            How do you intend to edit footage from your Canon without QT?

                             

                            I have QT and QT Pro installed in my systems because I need them to accomodate  cross platform as well as cross facilty workflows.

                             

                            It is seemless and trouble free. ( Notwithstanding the known gamma issue)

                             

                            BTW: The 32 /64bit  "point" is some kind of scaremongering that has no real world editing  implication for you or anyone.  ie. It will not cripple or hobble your system.

                             

                            Premiere is so amazing with native footage...that one can simply dump anything into any timeline and  maintain the playback advantages of MPE / CUDA with it all. eg. One of my last weeks exercises involved footage from my AF102 ( AVCHD) and footage from a clients Canon 5D.  I would not have touched that job if I was required to transcode anything (9 gbs of Canon footage) .

                             

                            Do not be put off QT by anyone. Especially those that do not use it professionally or otherwise.

                            • 11. Re: Should we Avoid QuickTime at all Costs?
                              JKad Level 1

                              I have a Canon 7D, have just started shooting video with it and bought Production Premium CS5 specifically for that purpose.  I had Photoshop CS4 and it worked just fine for my purposes but when I needed to edit video, it just made sense to get Production Premium.  Luckily I bought it just before they announced 5.5 and am supposed to get a free upgrade.  I am not a professional photographer but I am an enthusiast as to pictures and am beginning a real interest in video.  I will be upgrading my hardware because it is time and my two dual core E8500 computers (that I built) just do not give me the overall performance I would like with Photoshop and PPro. 

                              So much for the background.  I have to use QT because the camera outputs MOV files.  I do not have QT pro.  Should I get QT pro?  What would I gain if I did?  What is the recommended workflow with MOV files?  I've heard that with other programs, its best to convert to avi first and then do all editing in avi.  Is this necessary/advisable with PPro?  Once I get all my edits done, what do you suggest as the output type and codec?  If H.264 and not QT, where does one get another version of this codec?

                              Sorry for all the questions, but a lot of this is totally new to me and any suggestions would be appreciated.

                              • 12. Re: Should we Avoid QuickTime at all Costs?
                                the_wine_snob Level 9

                                About the only advantage that I know of with Pro is the ability to simple joining and some very light editing, and then the ability to Export. I seldom touch those rudimentary editing functions, but do use Pro as a conversion program. As a player, I lump it in with WMP, and usually use VLC, or MediaPlayer Classic HC. Still, I have the Pro license for all computers, and have for a very long time.

                                 

                                I do not think that there are any additional CODEC's, that get "unlocked" by Pro, but perhaps Craig (ShooterNZ) can tell me that.

                                 

                                For US $29, the Export/conversion part of Pro is worth the $'s. If you do not need that, not sure there would be a reason to upgrade - unless one does get a few more useful CODEC's?

                                 

                                Good luck,

                                 

                                Hunt

                                 

                                PS - glad that you bought in the window, and can get CS5.5.

                                • 13. Re: Should we Avoid QuickTime at all Costs?
                                  Jeff Bellune Adobe Community Professional

                                  Four years ago, I had to deliver a project on DVD and also for mobile devices.  Like it or not, iPods are ubiquitous and iPod-friendly videos cannot be ignored.  At the time, MainConcept's H.264 encoder was having bit rate issues at I-frames, which affected both Sorenson Squeeze and Premiere Pro CSx.  I couldn't get acceptable output from either one.  Sometimes not syncing with all iPods was another issue that affected Squeeze at the time; it may have been an issue with Pr as well.  Quicktime Pro saved my bacon.  I sent a lossless MOV file from Pr to QT Pro and tweaked the H.264 settings to get a good quality video file that synced perfectly with any generation of iPod.

                                   

                                  So is Quicktime necessary?  Probably not.  Is it evil, like all things Apple? No.  Is it just another tool for the toolbox?  You bet.

                                   

                                  -Jeff

                                  1 person found this helpful
                                  • 14. Re: Should we Avoid QuickTime at all Costs?
                                    Colin Brougham Level 6
                                    PS: I have a Canon 5D Mark II and shoot in H.264.... Quicktime seems to be intimately involved in my workflow somehow.....

                                     

                                    Premiere natively handles the MOVs from the Canon HDSLRs--meaning that you don't need to have QuickTime installed in order to work with these files.

                                     

                                    That said, you're on a Mac; removing QuickTime is probably about as easy as removing Internet Explorer from Windows used to be. Of course, QuickTime 7 is a completely different animal than QuickTime X, and I don't think that Premiere leverages QuickTime X at all.

                                     

                                    Basically, if you need QuickTime, you need it; if you don't, you don't. If it's part of your workflow, you just use it and get on with it.

                                    1 person found this helpful
                                    • 15. Re: Should we Avoid QuickTime at all Costs?
                                      Todd_Kopriva Level 8

                                      Having QuickTime installed won't hurt anything if you don't choose to use it.

                                       

                                      Having QuickTime installed is necessary to import several kinds of .mov files (though Premiere Pro can handle some natively, as in the example that Colin gave)---so, if you are going to use .mov files as source media, you need QuickTime installed.

                                       

                                      Exporting to QuickTime is sometimes required by some clients. Though you may try to dissuade them, the client is (usually) the boss.

                                       

                                      If you have a choice, and you care about color fidelity, don't export to QuickTime. QuickTime has a jumbled, half-implemented way of kinda-sorta doing color management. This method doesn't even work reliably within Apple software, meaning that people can't roundtrip media just within Apple applications with consistent color in some circumstances. This absolutely bedevils us, as we keep trying to hit this moving target. Any time someone tells me that our color management system isn't working, I _know_ (well, strongly suspect, anyway, with a very high rate of being right) that they're using QuickTime media.

                                       

                                      Because QuickTime is a 32-bit software component, we had to create our own intermediate process (QT32 Server) to communicate between QuickTime and the 64-bit Adobe video applications. This component can diminish performance but, more to the point, it can be the source of some other problems. The one that springs immediately to mind is the fact that aggressive firewall programs seem to hate QT32 Server, as described here:

                                      http://blogs.adobe.com/toddkopriva/2011/02/troubleshooting-quicktime-errors-with-after-eff ects.html

                                      • 16. Re: Should we Avoid QuickTime at all Costs?
                                        the_wine_snob Level 9

                                        Todd,

                                         

                                        Thank you for that background. Here, we usually see the "end results," the manifestation, and seldom know the details behind it.

                                         

                                        Appreciated,

                                         

                                        Hunt

                                        • 17. Re: Should we Avoid QuickTime at all Costs?
                                          joe bloe premiere Level 5

                                          Just to cloud the issue a bit, about 4-5 weeks ago I started getting

                                          these very intermittent error messages on two different systems,

                                          and always on launch of either Pr or En, never in Ae.

                                           

                                          There seems to be no rhyme or reason to the timing of when the

                                          error messages will appear, nor does there seem to be any detrimental

                                          effect within either program.  Oddly enough, when the error appears at

                                          program launch it always takes clicking "ok" six times to clear.

                                           

                                          The error always appears at "Loading ExporterQuickTimeHost.prm".

                                           

                                          One system has QuickTime7.6.9, the other 7.6.6.

                                           

                                          Any insights?

                                           

                                          Pr_loaderror.png

                                          En_loaderror.png

                                          • 18. Re: Should we Avoid QuickTime at all Costs?
                                            mdubuque Level 1

                                            Thanks for the brillian exposition on this topic everyone.  Extremely thorough and professional.  Now I am competently informed on the subject and I DO appreciate that very much!

                                             

                                            Joe, for me the ".dll" file extension appended to the end of each filename at issue provides one clue about what is going on.

                                             

                                            ".dll" is a file extension uniquely used by Microsoft, standing for "dynamic link library".

                                             

                                            Dynamic link libraries are strings of code that help different applications "talk" to each other, i.e. dynamically "link" them.

                                             

                                            The point of the foregoing is that somehow, in some way, the Windows operating is ALSO participating in creation of this issue you have presented us.

                                             

                                             

                                            Matt

                                            • 19. Re: Should we Avoid QuickTime at all Costs?
                                              Todd_Kopriva Level 8

                                              joe,

                                               

                                              Any time that I see a problem with QT32 Server (which is mentioned in that error message), my first suggestion is to turn off you anti-virus/security software and then try again. (Of course, don't do this while connected to the Internet.) Some aggressive firewall software inserts itself into the communication between QT32 Server and other components, as I describe in my previous post and the page that it links to.

                                               

                                              If it turns out that the anti-virus software is the culprit, then you can set it to allow QT32 Server to communicate. The exact steps differ for each anti-virus program.

                                              • 20. Re: Should we Avoid QuickTime at all Costs?
                                                joe bloe premiere Level 5

                                                Todd

                                                Thanks for the reply.

                                                 

                                                I have all OS firewall disabled, and no security apps installed.

                                                My ip is:

                                                 

                                                Next time it comes up, I'll make note of all running processes

                                                and maybe have more information to report.

                                                • 21. Re: Should we Avoid QuickTime at all Costs?
                                                  JKad Level 1

                                                  Thanks for the feedback.  I am trying to read and watch all of the relevant posts and training I can find time to absorb.  Your post and the ones that follow have been helpful.  Also the information here has given me ideas for searching related topics and am getting a better understanding of formats.  I'm in this to learn and put that into practice.

                                                  • 22. Re: Should we Avoid QuickTime at all Costs?
                                                    Averdahl Level 3

                                                    If you have a choice, and you care about color fidelity, don't export to QuickTime.

                                                     

                                                    Todd , in what way are the color fidelity affected?

                                                     

                                                    I used to arcivhe footage to the CineForm codec (AVI) but use Avid DNxHD today only because there is a sligth color shift in CineForm exports while the colors are identical to the footage on the Timeline when i use the Avid DNxHD codec when exporting. I used the CineForm AVI exporter in the Export Settings dialog. I use the QuickTime exporter today for the DNxHD codec.

                                                     

                                                    To test, i export the Timeline and import the exported footage and place it abowe the original footage on the Timeline and turn the output off/on to do an A/B comparison.

                                                     

                                                    /Roger

                                                    • 23. Re: Should we Avoid QuickTime at all Costs?
                                                      Todd_Kopriva Level 8

                                                      > Todd , in what way are the color fidelity affected?

                                                       

                                                      Depending on which codec, which version of QuickTime, and even what frame size (!) you're using, QuickTime may or may not introduce a gamma shift. It's a convoluted mess, but Dan Ramirez does a good job of laying out some of the details and testing results in this post:

                                                      http://forums.adobe.com/message/3357918#3357918

                                                      • 24. Re: Should we Avoid QuickTime at all Costs?
                                                        Averdahl Level 3

                                                        O.k, thanks for the answer and link. I will download and test it later today.

                                                         

                                                        I am on Windows 7 and do not see any color or gamma isues when i export from Pr to DNxHD. Thats why i moved to DNxHD.

                                                         

                                                        I do however see gamma issues if i export the DNxHD file from QT Pro to H.264, or from ProCoder 3 to MPEG2, but *not* when i export from AME. (I exported to 720p50.)

                                                        • 25. Re: Should we Avoid QuickTime at all Costs?
                                                          Averdahl Level 3

                                                          Todd,

                                                           

                                                          I have been spending some time this day to compare codecs and did a test with five solids on the Timeline; Red, Green, Blue, White and Black. I could see and measure in AE that especially the red and blue shifted in the DNxHD codec. Blacks and whites where unaffected.

                                                           

                                                          I do however see that when rendering video, a rock concert, i cannot see the diffrences by eye, but can measure a slight difference in AE. All codecs i have tested are slightly off in the colors compared to the original, some are better than others.

                                                           

                                                          The mystery of QT...

                                                           

                                                          /Roger

                                                          • 26. Re: Should we Avoid QuickTime at all Costs?
                                                            dMarks9 Level 1

                                                            I've had a similar issue with QuickTime in both CS4 and CS5 that hasn't been mentioned here. When I export to H.264 using the NTSC DV High Quality preset with the field option set to None (progressive) the resulting mp4 file plays great in Windows media player but the audio is way out of sync in QuickTime.  My customers prefer mp4 to other formats for digital download.  I like the fact that mp4 files can also be played in QuickTime.  This is convenient for Apple users.  However, the audio is so out of sync in QuickTime that it's useless.

                                                            • 27. Re: Should we Avoid QuickTime at all Costs?
                                                              the_wine_snob Level 9

                                                              Some users have also reported OOS issues, when using the Apple H.264 CODEC. For many, going with another H.264, like Lead's, or MainConcept's, has fixed the OOS problems.

                                                               

                                                              Good luck,

                                                               

                                                              Hunt

                                                              • 28. Re: Should we Avoid QuickTime at all Costs?
                                                                dMarks9 Level 1

                                                                I'm doing this within CS5 so the only option I'm aware of (within Premiere) is mainconcept.  I just played the file with "out of sync" audio on a Mac and the audio was perfectly in sync.  So, the problem appears to be the Windows version of QuickTime.  That's a problem I can live with because Windows users can use Windows Media Player and Mac users can use QuickTime.

                                                                • 29. Re: Should we Avoid QuickTime at all Costs?
                                                                  the_wine_snob Level 9

                                                                  That is good news. QT Player is, well not much better than WMP on a PC. I avoid it, if possible.

                                                                   

                                                                  Good luck,

                                                                   

                                                                  Hunt

                                                                  • 30. Re: Should we Avoid QuickTime at all Costs?
                                                                    digitlman Level 1

                                                                    so with all this being said (and debated for years actually)  what would your opinions be of having your entire production house full of premiere cs5 editing systems be changed to now edit nothing but quicktime .mov files 100% of the time.

                                                                     

                                                                    How do you think this would effect speed of editing and rendering as well as reliability and stability?