27 Replies Latest reply on Apr 28, 2011 5:04 PM by MobyTrix

    Render Issue - Skips, Stalls, Jerky MPEG2

    Dragan5269

      Folks I am trying to export from .mts and .avchd files into MPEG2 and the result I am getting is a skips in usually two areas of the rendered video.  This is a frame skip or stall and with each render it is in a different place.  At first I thought it might have been the machine.  So I went and I purchased a new one.  The results I get are the same.  The video skips frames in usually two places.  It is always in different places and not where there is a cut.

       

      The machine I have is

       

      ASUS I7 2630qm second gen processor

      8gb of ram 1333mhz, 750gb (7200) rpm hard drive.

       

      I am confident that the issue is not with the machine as this one is a week old and I have tried it with my older machine and got the same results.  I tried a variety of things.  The latest being export to Microsoft AVI and then render to MPEG2 and the result is the same.   I have tried with Max bit Depth, Render Quality and Frame blending, and without.  Same results.

       

      I have tried with a couple of different footages and format options and same results.  I have tried Exporting from Premiere and queing and rendeing from Adobe Media Encoder.  Tried Exporting in HD and SD, the problem does not go away.  

       

      I am starting to think that there is a bug with Premiere CS5. Any thoughts anyone.

       

      I almost forgot the most important thing.  The issues are happening when played back in Windows Media Player. I need to have it play back correctly.. 

       

      Thanks

        • 1. Re: Render Issue - Skips, Stalls, Jerky MPEG2
          shooternz Level 6

          Are you saying you have only one hard drive in this system?

          • 2. Re: Render Issue - Skips, Stalls, Jerky MPEG2
            Jim_Simon Level 8

            What is the ultimate destination of the export?  Web?  DVD?  Blu-ray?  Other?

            • 3. Re: Render Issue - Skips, Stalls, Jerky MPEG2
              John T Smith Adobe Community Professional & MVP

              My 3 hard drives are configured as... (WD = Western Digital)


              1 - 320G WD Win7 64bit Pro and all programs
              2 - 320G WD Win7 swap file and video projects
              3 - 1T WD all video files... read and write
              .
              Trying to use only ONE Hard Drive for Video Editing
              .
              You are a music conductor, with a baton that you use to point to various parts of the orchestra... this is like Windows pointing to various parts of the hard drive to do Windows housekeeping or to load program segments for various functions
              .
              Now, at the same time and with the same hand... while still using the baton to conduct the orchestra... pick up a bow and play a fiddle... this would be doing something with your video file at the same time as all the other work
              .
              You as a person cannot do both at the same time with the same hand
              .
              A computer is a LITTLE better, in that it can switch from one kind of task to another very quickly... but not quickly enough for easy video editing
              .
              One hard drive is not as good as two which is not as good as three
              • 5. Re: Render Issue - Skips, Stalls, Jerky MPEG2
                Dragan5269 Level 1

                Yes I only have one hard drive on this system.

                • 6. Re: Render Issue - Skips, Stalls, Jerky MPEG2
                  Dragan5269 Level 1

                  It is ultimately going to end up in SD MPEG2 format and it will air over a television station in Europe.  They require it to be in MPEG2 and they play it back through Windows Media Player.

                  • 7. Re: Render Issue - Skips, Stalls, Jerky MPEG2
                    Dragan5269 Level 1

                    Thank you very much for the relply and I appologize to everyone for the delayed responses.

                     

                    I took your advice and I rendered to an external WD Mybook hard drive.  Unfortunatelly, I have the same issue going on. That video stalls for a fraction of the second, the audio is fine, but the video stalls and jumps to another frame.

                    • 8. Re: Render Issue - Skips, Stalls, Jerky MPEG2
                      Dragan5269 Level 1

                      Thanks for your response and sorry about the wait.  5.0.3 is installed.  I tried now exporting to another hard drive and the same issue is happening again.

                      • 9. Re: Render Issue - Skips, Stalls, Jerky MPEG2
                        the_wine_snob Level 9

                        What is the speed of the WD? Should be 7200 RPM.

                         

                        What is the connection of the WD?

                         

                        Good luck,

                         

                        Hunt

                        • 10. Re: Render Issue - Skips, Stalls, Jerky MPEG2
                          Dragan5269 Level 1

                          The speed is 7200rpm.  I am connecting via USB 2.0 to this drive.  I know that is not the best connection, but I have to say that it is interesting that I am getting the same results whether I render to the internal drive or the external USB drive.  The video will stall for a fraction of the second, but it is always in a different spot with each render:-)))

                          • 11. Re: Render Issue - Skips, Stalls, Jerky MPEG2
                            John T Smith Adobe Community Professional & MVP

                            Only one hard drive is below specification for PPro... you must have AT LEAST two hard drives... one for OS and all software, and a dedicated 7200rpm drive for video files

                             

                            USB is not suitable for video editing, only for SLOW backup files

                             

                            For external, you need eSata or Firewire 800... eSata is more common

                             

                            Read what I posted before about trying to edit with only one drive... you are simply trying to have your computer do something it can't do because of your single hard drive

                             

                            You need to add another internal hard drive... or an eSata external

                            • 12. Re: Render Issue - Skips, Stalls, Jerky MPEG2
                              Jim_Simon Level 8

                              As a test, burn out a DVD and watch it on a DVD player and television.  Do you still see anything wrong?

                              • 13. Re: Render Issue - Skips, Stalls, Jerky MPEG2
                                Dragan5269 Level 1

                                When I burn the DVD and watch it on television it plays fine.  The problem happens when you play it on Windows Media Player.  However, it needs to play fine on WMP.

                                • 14. Re: Render Issue - Skips, Stalls, Jerky MPEG2
                                  Dragan5269 Level 1

                                  Let me clarify, I had the raw video files residing on the drive where the OS system was installed (internal) and I was just rendering the Western Digital USB 2.0 .  Let me ask you, I noticed that I have a USB 3.0 port as well.  If I render to the USB 3.0 port from the internal drive, will that be sufficient.  If so, I will go by one now and test.  Thanks for your response.

                                  • 15. Re: Render Issue - Skips, Stalls, Jerky MPEG2
                                    the_wine_snob Level 9

                                    Well, playing a DVD through WMP might be a hit-n-miss proposition. Sometime back, MS removed DVD playback from WMP. A cottage industry sprung up for DVD player plug-ins for it. As time passed, there were many far better DVD software players released. MS relented, but decided that all burned DVD's were pirated, so set up WMP to play commercial DVD's, but if the disc was burned it was touch and go - maybe, but maybe not. Depending on just which version of WMP one has, it might play your dsc, but many versions will not. You will need to talk to MS about how to make sure that every version of WMP can play burned DVD's in your company, or your clientbase.

                                     

                                    I use either CyberLink's PowerDVD (one version commonly included with one's multi-drive), or MediaPlayer Classic HD (freeware), and both are far better, IMO, that any version of WMP.

                                     

                                    Good luck,

                                     

                                    Hunt

                                    • 16. Re: Render Issue - Skips, Stalls, Jerky MPEG2
                                      Dragan5269 Level 1

                                      Thanks for all the feedback.  Let me clarify please.  I need to play the MPEG2 file correctly from WMP, becuase this is what the TV station requires.  I burned a DVD just to test and that was ok.  However, since they are in Europe and I am here, I send them an MPEG2 and they play it through the media player...

                                       

                                      Also, I just purchased a USB 3.0 drive and rendered the video.  Unfortunately got the same results on that one as well.  Please help.

                                      • 17. Re: Render Issue - Skips, Stalls, Jerky MPEG2
                                        the_wine_snob Level 9

                                        OK, that is different. The MPEG-2's should play fine in WMP, of almost all versions.

                                         

                                        Good luck,

                                         

                                        Hunt

                                        • 18. Re: Render Issue - Skips, Stalls, Jerky MPEG2
                                          Dragan5269 Level 1

                                          I agree.  What is more interesting to me.  CS3 used to render this MPEG2's with no problem on much slower machines, yet CS5 has issues.  I feel like I am alone on an island right now:-((  However, I know it is not my machine as I bought a new one and I am having the same problem with an older machine.

                                           

                                          I am curious if anyone else out there has experienced the same issue.  I know folks have on other forums and the issue remains at large.

                                           

                                          I appreciate everyones input.

                                           

                                          Thank you.

                                          • 19. Re: Render Issue - Skips, Stalls, Jerky MPEG2
                                            Jim_Simon Level 8

                                            OK.

                                             

                                            With the burned disk, we know the skips are occurring during playback, and are not in the file itself.

                                             

                                            On that note, I'd just send off the file and ask your client to test it.  Chances are, it will play fine for them.  If not, then you will know there is something else that needs addressing.  (But, until you know the client has an issue, you're kind of chasing your tail on this one.)

                                            • 20. Re: Render Issue - Skips, Stalls, Jerky MPEG2
                                              MobyTrix

                                              Dragan5269 wrote:

                                               

                                              It is ultimately going to end up in SD MPEG2 format and it will air over a television station in Europe.  They require it to be in MPEG2 and they play it back through Windows Media Player.

                                               

                                              I'm surprised nobody caught this -- If your source footage/project is NTSC and the European station is PAL (very likely) then any transcode between the formats will definitely have strong frame judder, because you're going from 29.97fps to 25fps.

                                               

                                              What source format is your footage?

                                              What format is your project set to?

                                              What format is the european station asking for?

                                              • 21. Re: Render Issue - Skips, Stalls, Jerky MPEG2
                                                Jim_Simon Level 8
                                                I'm surprised nobody caught this

                                                 

                                                Nobody caught it because NTSC was never specified.  I assumed since it was PAL delivery, it was PAL original.  I would hope anyone delivering for broadcast would not be ignorant of such details.

                                                • 22. Re: Render Issue - Skips, Stalls, Jerky MPEG2
                                                  MobyTrix Level 1

                                                  JSS1138 wrote:

                                                   

                                                  I'm surprised nobody caught this

                                                   

                                                  Nobody caught it because NTSC was never specified.  I assumed since it was PAL delivery, it was PAL original.  I would hope anyone delivering for broadcast would not be ignorant of such details.

                                                  Well, I got nervous when the station said its requirement was that the file be playing in Windows Media Player.  I've never heard of that being a requirement, especially since WMP has an uneven track record for deinterlacing footage (it displays all 60 fields of DV properly, but does not do so with MPEG-2).

                                                  • 23. Re: Render Issue - Skips, Stalls, Jerky MPEG2
                                                    Dragan5269 Level 1

                                                    Ok folks, the reason I did not specify NTSC or PAL is becuase I am having the issue with both.  I rendered NTSC into NTSC and the same issue happens.  I understand that once I renderer to PAL that the quality is not the best, but this is not what I am trying to find an answer to.  The issue is that the video stalls for a fraction of a second and then it jumps to another frame. This happens usually a couple of times in the video.  Other than that I am very happy with the quality.

                                                     

                                                    Let me throw this out there as well.  Today I rendered the MPEG2 NTSC file (the skippy one) into another MPEG2 NTSC file using Mainconcept.  Guess what the video did not skip, it was perfect.  This leads me to believe that there is a bug inside of Premiere CS5.

                                                     

                                                    Although this is a work arround, I would love it if I could just rendered out of CS5 and get the same result.

                                                     

                                                    I do appologize if I was not clear from the beginning.  The raw footage has been NTSC, however the issue was happening whether I rendered to NTSC or PAL.

                                                     

                                                    The source files were avchd and mp4 for different projects of course.

                                                     

                                                    Thanks

                                                    • 24. Re: Render Issue - Skips, Stalls, Jerky MPEG2
                                                      Jim_Simon Level 8

                                                      You're shooting NTSC for PAL delivery?

                                                       

                                                      You've got bigger problems than a file that skips on your machine.

                                                      • 25. Re: Render Issue - Skips, Stalls, Jerky MPEG2
                                                        Dragan5269 Level 1

                                                        Folks I stated earlier that I am pretty new to video.  However, it looks like I have figured out the problem.  When rendering from Premiere to MPEG2 you have the target rate and the max rate.  I was typicallly trying to render at 23 mbps target and 25 mbps max rate.  What was happening probably was that in the faster moving scenes the rate would go above 25 and cause a stall.  I have increased the max rate to 30 mbps and that solved the problem.

                                                         

                                                        Now, I am open to any recommendation from you experienced users on how much should you set the max rate above the target rate.

                                                         

                                                        I also will have a need to render in SD at target rate probably 8mbps, so I guess the max rate should be 10mbps.  Anyhow this is probably another post.

                                                         

                                                        Now this video had to be delivered to the TV station in PAL and to the client in the us here in NTSC. This is why I filmed in NTSC.  Perhaps I will film in PAL next time for the station and covert to NTSC for the client.  Any recommendation from the experienced users is appreciated.

                                                         

                                                        Thanks for all your help, and I am glad that I figured this one out.

                                                        • 26. Re: Render Issue - Skips, Stalls, Jerky MPEG2
                                                          Harm Millaard Level 7

                                                          Use this calculator to find optimal bitrates for your encodes: DVD-HQ  Bitrate & GOP calculator

                                                          • 27. Re: Render Issue - Skips, Stalls, Jerky MPEG2
                                                            MobyTrix Level 1

                                                            Dragan5269 wrote:

                                                             

                                                            Folks I stated earlier that I am pretty new to video.  However, it looks like I have figured out the problem.  When rendering from Premiere to MPEG2 you have the target rate and the max rate.  I was typicallly trying to render at 23 mbps target and 25 mbps max rate.  What was happening probably was that in the faster moving scenes the rate would go above 25 and cause a stall.  I have increased the max rate to 30 mbps and that solved the problem.

                                                             

                                                             

                                                            Max bitrate is a hard limit, not a threshold past which frames are dropped.  While I'm glad you found something that fixes your issues, max bitrate probably wasn't it.

                                                             

                                                            As for max bitrate, I always have it at the maximum for my medium (for DVD it's 9800kbps, for blu-ray it's 40mbit/s), and set the average at the rate that will give me the target filesize I want.  This strategy produces great results as long as 2-pass encoding is used.  If you're in a hurry and only use 1-pass, you should set your average and target closer to each other so that the 1-pass encoder has less headroom to guess incorrectly.