6 Replies Latest reply on Apr 29, 2011 8:05 AM by Jim_Simon

    audio already good, but possible improvements

    Firstodd-khoqYR

      Just to get it out there,

       

      I want to see real time waveform (changes realtime as you tweak volume, gain, rubberbands, etc) in future versions.

       

      Many might lean that it's a performance hit.. so keep it optional.. but this would make my editing/workflow waaay faster.  No more guess, check by playing back, oops it peaks, adjust it a little.  This is one the the only features about the new FC that make me want to check it out and would possibly be a decision breaker for me since I'm a very audio driven editor.

       

      other tweaks:

       

      "Locking" the keyframes from moving vertically while dragging them horizontally by holding shift needs fixed; right now it often adjusts vertically slightly before popping into the "mode" of horizontal lock.  Locking vertically works perfect, not sure why/how they got going the other direction wrong.  Additionally you can only modifer drag (ctr and shift for slower and faster) keyframes vertically, not horizontally.

       

      Need to be able to lasso + other more efficient methods of selecting multiple keyframes very soon.

       

      I'd like to be able to "draw" my volume keyframes on.  I often keyframe certain parts of vocals to bring low words or ends of sentences, etc up, parts of speech the person has inadvertedly lowered their voice.  It's okay right now, but tedious and lots of clicking that could be very much improved to save time & get a better end result.  It could much more efficient.  I.e. ctr-clicking or using the pen tool should make a keyframe wherever you click, instead of having to be on the line.  This way, you could make set your levels with one click and follow along the waveform where you know needs booster or dropped downs, instead of the--make 4 keyframes, select two of them, move up or down, listen and adjust, make more keyfream--that it is now.  And, if you start to drag the mouse, it draws keyframes or a path, so you could literally just outline your audio quickly and accurately.

       

      Other timesavers I'd love to see are track based effects, avid-style keyframing over (multiple) whatever tracks are active, and better options as far as keyframes go when sliding/slipping clips (choice between them staying put or moving with the slip); but there are not as big of a deal to me, and Audition love is coming.

       

      Yes, I'm going to submit these to Feature Requests.  Maybe there's some other opinions and ideas out there for more improvement?

       

       

      - wb

        • 1. Re: audio already good, but possible improvements
          Colin Brougham Level 6

          "Locking" the keyframes from moving vertically while dragging them horizontally by holding shift needs fixed; right now it often adjusts vertically slightly before popping into the "mode" of horizontal lock.  Locking vertically works perfect, not sure why/how they got going the other direction wrong.  Additionally you can only modifer drag (ctr and shift for slower and faster) keyframes vertically, not horizontally.

           

          Agree on the first part; it's awkward and weird. I could take or leave the second part.

           

          Need to be able to lasso + other more efficient methods of selecting multiple keyframes very soon.

           

          This exists; the pen tool will let you lasso multiple keyframes, even non-contiguous keyframes if you use Shift.

           

          I'd like to be able to "draw" my volume keyframes on.  I often keyframe certain parts of vocals to bring low words or ends of sentences, etc up, parts of speech the person has inadvertedly lowered their voice.  It's okay right now, but tedious and lots of clicking that could be very much improved to save time & get a better end result.  It could much more efficient.  I.e. ctr-clicking or using the pen tool should make a keyframe wherever you click, instead of having to be on the line.  This way, you could make set your levels with one click and follow along the waveform where you know needs booster or dropped downs, instead of the--make 4 keyframes, select two of them, move up or down, listen and adjust, make more keyfream--that it is now.  And, if you start to drag the mouse, it draws keyframes or a path, so you could literally just outline your audio quickly and accurately.

           

          Drawing keyframes with a modifier would be interesting, but I think outside of the scope of an NLE. I don't particularly like the idea of keyframes showing up and deflecting the rubberband if you don't click directly on the rubberband--there's a lot of opportunity to inadvertently make a mess of things if you're not careful. Again, a modifier would be needed (it shouldn't be the default operation), but there are a limited number of modifiers available.

           

          Again, I'm not saying this is a bad idea--it's very interactive and that's cool--but it shouldn't be the default behavior given the potential mess it could make

           

          I'd love to see are track based effects...

           

          Done: Overview of audio and the Audio Mixer (check out the section about effects)

           

          avid-style keyframing over (multiple) whatever tracks are active

           

          You could do this with submixes, which would actually be a little easier since you're only modifying one track instead of multiple tracks. Also, it's possible to copy and paste rubberband keyframes between clips; I do this all the time.

           

          better options as far as keyframes go when sliding/slipping clips (choice between them staying put or moving with the slip)

           

          This is a sticky wicket. You can use clip keyframes, which travel with the clip and are locked to the clip time, or you can use track keyframes, which are locked to the sequence time. Like in After Effects, if you want to slip a clip but not change keyframes, you have to select the keyframes, cut them from the layer, slip the clip, and then paste them back; I don't know how else this flexibility could be efficiently applied in Premiere with audio keyframes.

           

          The Audition interchange is going to be interesting, undoubtedly

          • 2. Re: audio already good, but possible improvements
            Jim_Simon Level 8
            I want to see real time waveform (changes realtime as you tweak volume, gain, rubberbands, etc) in future versions.

             

            Hell yes!  We had that for Premiere 6.5.  Not sure why we've never had it for Premiere Pro.

            • 3. Re: audio already good, but possible improvements
              Firstodd-khoqYR Level 1

              Colin,

               

              Wow, thanks for the tips!  I just lassoed, had no idea it did it.  I "tried it" before by using modified keys and it didn't work so thought i was unavailable, I know it was in previous versions.

               

              & the hidden track effects are good to know. That's the thing with PP, always have to discover things to actually know about them .

              -

              I agree, the draw could be a modifier-driven behaviour.

              -

              Hmm, I used to copy/paste the "volume" and it worked in previous versions (for after slip/slide).  Now, it seems to just paste on wherever it's already at, as if it's pasting to the source and not the cut.

               

              I guess one extra step, selecting the actual keyframes and cutting/pasting, is the key, you're right.  I'll have to start using that.

              __

               

              Jim,

               

              Really, It was in 6.5? That's crazy ha!

              __

               

              Thanks

               

              - wb

              • 4. Re: audio already good, but possible improvements
                Colin Brougham Level 6
                Hmm, I used to copy/paste the "volume" and it worked in previous versions (for after slip/slide).  Now, it seems to just paste on wherever it's already at, as if it's pasting to the source and not the cut.

                 

                Do you mean when you paste to the same clip, or attempt to paste to a different clip? For me, the former works; cut keyframes are pasted with the first cut keyframe at the CTI back to the same clip they originated from. By the way, a relatively easy way to move audio rubberband keyframes is to use the Effects Control Panel; just click the Levels property in the ECP to select all the keyframes on the clip, and then you can move or cut and paste them.

                 

                However, if you're referring to the latter... I made a goof It appears that it's actually not possible to copy and paste audio keyframes between different clips. Come to think of it, what I routinely do is copy and paste keyframes between source tracks of a single clip. I work with P2 MXF frequently, which by default has 2 or 4 mono audio tracks; I'll often rubberband one of those tracks, and then copy and paste the keyframes to the remaining source tracks. This works--but pasting those keyframes to another clip altogether is a no-go. I'd never considered this (how often do I want the same level and keyframes on multiple clips?), but I think this could and should be considered a bug. After all, you can copy and paste keyframes for video effects between multiple clips, so why not Volume?

                 

                I'll report that one later

                 

                EDIT: OK, you can copy and paste the Volume effect, but not the Levels property or its keyframes individually. Hmm...

                • 5. Re: audio already good, but possible improvements
                  Firstodd-khoqYR Level 1

                  Colin,

                   

                  Clarifying, clicking and copying "volume" from the effect controls panel, slipping the clip (same as that which was copied frome),  then pasting "volume" back on.  I'm almost certain this is how I used to do it in earlier versions.  Now, it just pastes them back into the same place instead of placing them relative to the new cut points.

                   

                  Cut, your cut and paste method works--although only if I twirl down to 'level' and click that, otherwise the keyframes are not selected.  Only clicking "Volume" doesn't select the keyframes; clicking "level" does.

                   

                  (lol, looks like we're getting different results. I'm at the latest updates.)

                  __

                  Hmm, well I'm not able to copy individual or a select few keyframes from clip to clip, but you can copy/paste "level" from effects to other clips.  Which is probably ok and on purpose.  I suppose copy/pasting keyframes based on cursor position could be helpful, or would it autoscale to the clip?  That might be the issue in not allowing it.

                   

                  Also, wish lasso could start outside of a clip. Often have to do two swipes if you want to grab those keyframes close to an edge.

                   

                  I still like the active track based control of creating/controlling multiple keyframes.  I know it'll probably never make it in, but I think it's more dynamic and fluid (and you can immediately monitor as you go) than having to copy or cut and paste, or interrupt your work pace to set up subgroups. That being said, I severely underuse subgroups and should probly use them more.

                   

                  - wb

                  • 6. Re: audio already good, but possible improvements
                    Jim_Simon Level 8

                    Really, It was in 6.5? That's crazy ha!

                     

                    Yeah, and 6.5 did it without the time consuming process of creating .pek files.  The waveform just appeared instantly, and was 'live' with any changes made.