9 Replies Latest reply on May 9, 2011 9:36 AM by Andrew_Hart

    Clear Settings does not delete .xmp sidecars

    Andrew_Hart Level 2

      Using latest CR 6.4, Bridge 4.0.4.2 & Ps 12.0.4

       

      Posting here because most knowledgeable folks here rarely if ever seem to visit the Bridge forum anymore. And it does relate to CR settings.

       

      In Bridge, if you choose Develop Settings/Clear settings, the settings are indeed cleared but the sidecar files remain, even if you refresh the Windows folder and/or close and reopen both Bridge and Ps. Additionally, even if you manually delete the sidecars, the size of the exported cache file Bridge.T is not reduced but remains the same.

       

      Anyone else noticed this?

        • 1. Re: Clear Settings does not delete .xmp sidecars
          Andrew_Hart Level 2

          Forget the bit about the size of the "Bridge.T" cache file. That seems to relate to the number of thumbnails and would not be affected by whether or not a sidecar had been created or deleted.

          • 2. Re: Clear Settings does not delete .xmp sidecars
            Level 4

            Andrew_Hart wrote:

             

            …In Bridge, if you choose Develop Settings/Clear settings, the settings are indeed cleared but the sidecar files remain…

             

             

            That has always been the case, and it's perfectly normal, expected behavior.

             

            Your mistake is assuming that the xmp file would contain only ACR edit information.  That is just not the case.

             

            Here's an example of the kind of information retained in an xmp file in CS4 after clearing the develop settings in Bridge.  This should make it clear to you why the xmp file must remain after clearing the ACR development settings rather than having to be built from scratch all over again next time you open the file:

             

             

            <x:xmpmeta xmlns:x="adobe:ns:meta/" x:xmptk="Adobe XMP Core 4.2-c020 1.124078, Tue Sep 11 2007 23:21:40        ">

            <rdf:RDF xmlns:rdf="http://www.w3.org/1999/02/22-rdf-syntax-ns#">

              <rdf:Description rdf:about=""

                xmlns:tiff="http://ns.adobe.com/tiff/1.0/">

               <tiff:Make>PENTAX</tiff:Make>

               <tiff:Model>PENTAX K20D</tiff:Model>

               <tiff:Orientation>1</tiff:Orientation>

              </rdf:Description>

              <rdf:Description rdf:about=""

                xmlns:exif="http://ns.adobe.com/exif/1.0/">

               <exif:ExifVersion>0221</exif:ExifVersion>

               <exif:ExposureTime>1/160</exif:ExposureTime>

               <exif:ShutterSpeedValue>7321928/1000000</exif:ShutterSpeedValue>

               <exif:FNumber>8/1</exif:FNumber>

               <exif:ApertureValue>6/1</exif:ApertureValue>

               <exif:ExposureProgram>0</exif:ExposureProgram>

               <exif:DateTimeOriginal>2010-02-10T18:29:45-08:00</exif:DateTimeOriginal>

               <exif:DateTimeDigitized>2010-02-10T18:29:45-08:00</exif:DateTimeDigitized>

               <exif:ExposureBiasValue>20/10</exif:ExposureBiasValue>

               <exif:MeteringMode>5</exif:MeteringMode>

               <exif:FocalLength>1900/100</exif:FocalLength>

               <exif:SensingMethod>2</exif:SensingMethod>

               <exif:FocalLengthIn35mmFilm>28</exif:FocalLengthIn35mmFilm>

               <exif:CustomRendered>0</exif:CustomRendered>

               <exif:ExposureMode>1</exif:ExposureMode>

               <exif:WhiteBalance>0</exif:WhiteBalance>

               <exif:SceneCaptureType>0</exif:SceneCaptureType>

               <exif:Contrast>2</exif:Contrast>

               <exif:Saturation>0</exif:Saturation>

               <exif:Sharpness>2</exif:Sharpness>

               <exif:SubjectDistanceRange>3</exif:SubjectDistanceRange>

               <exif:ISOSpeedRatings>

                <rdf:Seq>

                 <rdf:li>800</rdf:li>

                </rdf:Seq>

               </exif:ISOSpeedRatings>

               <exif:Flash rdf:parseType="Resource">

                <exif:Fired>True</exif:Fired>

                <exif:Return>0</exif:Return>

                <exif:Mode>1</exif:Mode>

                <exif:Function>False</exif:Function>

                <exif:RedEyeMode>False</exif:RedEyeMode>

               </exif:Flash>

              </rdf:Description>

              <rdf:Description rdf:about=""

                xmlns:xap="http://ns.adobe.com/xap/1.0/">

               <xap:ModifyDate>2010-02-10T18:29:45-08:00</xap:ModifyDate>

               <xap:CreateDate>2010-02-10T18:29:45-08:00</xap:CreateDate>

               <xap:CreatorTool>K20D Ver 1.03</xap:CreatorTool>

               <xap:Rating>0</xap:Rating>

              </rdf:Description>

              <rdf:Description rdf:about=""

                xmlns:aux="http://ns.adobe.com/exif/1.0/aux/">

               <aux:LensInfo>160/10 450/10 40/10 40/10</aux:LensInfo>

               <aux:Lens>smc PENTAX-DA 16-45mm F4 ED AL</aux:Lens>

               <aux:LensID>4 254</aux:LensID>

              </rdf:Description>

              <rdf:Description rdf:about=""

                xmlns:crs="http://ns.adobe.com/camera-raw-settings/1.0/">

               <crs:RawFileName>_IMG0187.PEF</crs:RawFileName>

               <crs:Version>5.7</crs:Version>

               <crs:ProcessVersion>5.0</crs:ProcessVersion>

               <crs:HasSettings>False</crs:HasSettings>

               <crs:HasCrop>False</crs:HasCrop>

               <crs:AlreadyApplied>False</crs:AlreadyApplied>

              </rdf:Description>

              <rdf:Description rdf:about=""

                xmlns:photoshop="http://ns.adobe.com/photoshop/1.0/">

               <photoshop:SidecarForExtension>PEF</photoshop:SidecarForExtension>

              </rdf:Description>

            </rdf:RDF>

            </x:xmpmeta>

             

            Note the creation date:  <exif:DateTimeOriginal>2010-02-10T18:29:45-08:00</exif:DateTimeOrigin al>.  Yet, I just cleared the Develop Settings in the last few minutes.

             

             

            ____________

            Wo Tai Lao Le

            我太老了

             

            • 3. Re: Clear Settings does not delete .xmp sidecars
              Level 4

              Why would you object to this normal, expected behavior?  Just curious.

               

               

              wtll

              • 4. Re: Clear Settings does not delete .xmp sidecars
                Andrew_Hart Level 2

                Hello Tai, or should I call you Ramon?,

                 

                Tai Lao wrote:

                 

                Andrew_Hart wrote:

                 

                …In Bridge, if you choose Develop Settings/Clear settings, the settings are indeed cleared but the sidecar files remain…

                 

                 

                That has always been the case, and it's perfectly normal, expected behavior.

                 

                Your mistake is assuming that the xmp file would contain only ACR edit information.  That is just not the case.

                 

                First up, why the shouting? Is that really necessary?

                 

                Perhaps it has always been the case, but I've never noticed it before.

                 

                I'd dispute that it is expected behaviour on the basis that it is, first and foremost, illogical. Until you perform edits, or accept the default edits, in CR, no sidecar exists. It seems only reasonable to expect that if you decide to abandon those edits entirely that the sidecar should go. It is simply irrelevant that CR might decide to include other information in the xmp file in addition to the edit information. The sidecar without the edit information has no practical use whatsoever and serves simply to clutter up one's hard drive with files that will never be used. There is nothing to prevent the regeneration of the the non-edit information along with the edit information in a new sidecar if and when CR is given another look at the raw file.

                • 5. Re: Clear Settings does not delete .xmp sidecars
                  Level 4

                  Cautionary note to other forum users:  You can safely ignore this redundant post.

                   

                   

                  Andrew_Hart wrote:

                   

                  …First up, why the shouting? Is that really necessary?…

                   

                  Obviously, I thought so.     I meant no offense, just wanted to add emphasis as I saw fit.  I would have done the same in an audible manner without giving it a second thought if we had been face to face.

                   

                   

                  Andrew_Hart wrote:

                   

                  …Perhaps it has always been the case, but I've never noticed it before…

                   

                  Not much I can do about that, is there?

                   

                   

                  Andrew_Hart wrote:

                   

                  …I'd dispute that it is expected behaviour…

                   

                  Most unimpressive, frankly.  I doubt that's going to bother anybody at Adobe either.

                   

                   

                   

                  Andrew_Hart wrote:

                   

                  …There is nothing to prevent the regeneration of the the non-edit information along with the edit information in a new sidecar if and when CR is given another look at the raw file.

                   

                  But there is no reason not to preserve what is already created.  It has to do with something called efficiency—or perhaps expediency.*

                   

                  In any event, I was commenting on your original post and have nothing else to add to this thread.

                   

                   

                  * expedient (from a dictionary definition)

                  |ikˈspēdēənt|

                  adjective

                  (of an action) convenient and practical

                  • (of an action) suitable or appropriate : holding a public inquiry into the scheme was not expedient.

                   

                   

                   

                  Cheers.

                   

                   

                  ____________

                  Wo Tai Lao Le

                  我太老了

                  • 6. Re: Clear Settings does not delete .xmp sidecars
                    Level 4

                    Just think of the untold nanoseconds saved by just having Bridge read the xmp file rather than having to dig into the entrails of the raw file to populate the metadata panel each and every time. 

                    • 7. Re: Clear Settings does not delete .xmp sidecars
                      Yammer Level 4

                      I remember thinking the same thing, but then Camera Raw is usually the first thing to touch my photos. If I had more discipline, I might keyword all my shoots before developing the images, in which case, the keywording process would also create XMP files from scratch, and I wouldn't expect Clear Develop Settings to remove the XMP files in that case.

                      So, I suppose, the expected behavoiur might be for ACR to delete the XMP file if no other metadata exists. Presumably, no one thought this was worth the programming effort, as they also have to account for DNG, TIFF, and JPEG metadata handling, and an empty XMP only wastes one block of drive space, and so isn't a real problem.

                      • 8. Re: Clear Settings does not delete .xmp sidecars
                        Andrew_Hart Level 2

                        Oh, dear, very good points Yammer P.

                         

                        Since I never input metadata through Bridge (or any other source), I never gave this a thought.

                         

                        If you were to keyword your files before CR ever saw them, are the keywords stored in an xmp sidecar? Sorry if that seems a silly question, but I've never done it.

                         

                        Next Question: if yes, is that same sidecar used to store any subsequent CR edits? If so, then there is obviously every reason not to remove/delete the sidecar when clearing develop settings. The same remains true if CR edits come before Bridge keywords and both share the same sidecar. Deleting the sidecar after clearing develop settings in either scenario would be potentially disastrous.

                         

                        I'm going to have a play with Bridge keywords and see for myself if I don't hear from you first.

                        • 9. Re: Clear Settings does not delete .xmp sidecars
                          Andrew_Hart Level 2

                          Well, I've checked for myself. The answer to both questions is Yes.

                           

                          So Ramon was quite correct when he said that Not deleting the sidecar after clearing develop settings is normal expected behaviour, And it would seem that, except in the limited circumstances outlined by Yammer P, it is also essential behaviour.

                           

                          I'm content and satisfied. Thanks folks.