12 Replies Latest reply on Apr 2, 2012 10:19 AM by daxmacrog

    Premier cs5.5 merge clip- metadata not in sync with video

    LFedit Level 1

      Using The merge clip command with native Canon 5D Mark II footage, with audio captured from a Zoom H4N that has been analyzed through text to speech and creates a merged clip the way I'd expect, but when following the text to speech to the video in the merged clip the metadata that follows the video doesn't line up.  I've tried analyzing footage before merging and after merging without success.  The highlighted text follows the video, so that feature is working, but that highlighted text that plays with the video is out of sync.

       

      We preroll all of our audio before rolling video, which is consistent with the way the merge clips play back metadata with highlighted text.  It appears that the video is behind the analysis making me think that the metadata is just pushed to the front of the video footage rather than staying in sync with audio as it's merged.

       

      Loading the audio in the source monitor, the metadata plays back it's  highlighted text like it should.  Is there an "align metadata to new  merged clip" or something to that effect or is this a bug?

        • 1. Re: Premier cs5.5 merge clip- metadata not in sync with video
          Kevin-Monahan Adobe Employee

          What is the audio sample rate of the Zoom recorder? Does it match your sequence settings precisely?

          Try this: drag and drop a clip onto the New Item button to create a new sequence with all the proper settings for your merged clips and then see how it behaves.

          • 2. Re: Premier cs5.5 merge clip- metadata not in sync with video
            LFedit Level 1

            Audio is recorded at 48000Hz.  The audio matches the sequence identically.  I tried creating a new sequence from the audio clip, and adding the video to that new sequence.  Merging the clips in that sequence results in the same offset as before.  I have found that ganging my program and source results in a similar offset when adding markers, in both the merged clip and non merged clips.  I will try uninstalling and running the clean up script and reinstalling.  I have had enough issues to think it may be a need for a fresh install.  I will report if this problem is fixed after a reinstall.

            • 3. Re: Premier cs5.5 merge clip- metadata not in sync with video
              LFedit Level 1

              After a fresh reinstall, my merged clips are still offsetting.

               

              I've tried syncing my clips from the timeline then merging, from creating in points and merging from the project panel in all of the following ways:

               

              Dragging video to a new sequence then merging, then analyzing     

              Dragging audio to a new sequence then merging, then analyzing

              Analyze audio first then drag video to a new sequence then merging

              Analyze audio first then drag audio to a new sequence then merging

               

              If I analyze the audio recorded on from the Canon 5D first, although a crude analysis which I would suspect, stays in sync until I merge it with audio.

              Both the audio from the camera and the audio from the H4N offset after merging clips.

               

              I've tried transcoding to Prores 422, Prores LT, Prores 422HQ, then:

               

              Dragging video to a new sequence then merging, then analysising

              Dragging audio to a new sequence then merging, then analyzing

              Analyze audio first then drag video to a new sequence then merging

              Analyze audio first then drag audio to a new sequence then merging

               

              Still no luck.  Can any one get metadata from Speech Analysis to line up correctly once a clip is merged?

              • 4. Re: Premier cs5.5 merge clip- metadata not in sync with video
                Kevin-Monahan Adobe Employee

                Hi LFedit,

                I've been doing a little research and have found out that you hit a bug. It is one we know about and are working on. The trouble lies in clips with different start times (which is usually the case).

                 

                The workaround is to drop the clips with the edits and clips aligned in the timeline, export them out individually, and then reimport them. Not the most painless workaround, but metadata sync should work then.

                • 5. Re: Premier cs5.5 merge clip- metadata not in sync with video
                  epsilonfilms Level 1

                  I've been having a similar problem with clips with different start times. Is this caused by the same bug?

                   

                   

                  I merge the clips normally, (sync them, aline the in and out points and select merge clips) and then drop the entire clip into the timeline and double click to open it in the source monitor.  The sync of the clips is never lost, but something else happens which makes the Merge Clips function quite unusable.

                   

                  (in the following section, the time between when one of the recorders, be it the camera or the audio recorder, was started and when the other one was will be referred to as "X")

                   

                  Then one of three things happens:

                   

                  1) if the files start at exactly the same time (Impossible unless hitting record on one piece of equipment triggers the other) everything works as it should.

                   

                  2) if the audio recorder started first, the video plays back in the source monitor, but the timecode displayed is not in sync with the video. The timecode that gets displayed is the correct timecode plus X. If I set an In or out point, the audio in point is set at the correct point on the timeline, but the video in point on the timeline is out of sync, and the in point must be dragged back X seconds to match up.

                   

                  3) if the Camera started first, the Timecode is displayed correctly, but when I set the in point, the audio is X seconds later on the timeline and must be dragged back to match the video inpoint which is correct.

                   

                   

                  If I open the clip in the source monitor from the project panel, everything works correctly.

                   

                  JM

                  • 6. Re: Premier cs5.5 merge clip- metadata not in sync with video
                    Kevin-Monahan-ywv84J Level 1

                    Hi episilonfilms,

                    After doing some investigation and talking to the Premiere Pro team, it does not sound like the same issue.

                     

                    After creating the merged clip, you say you "double clicked" to load the merged clip back into the Source panel, right? To load the merged clip back into the Source panel, try using Match Frame instead and see if you have the same issues. Or, load it from the Project panel as you have previously. You should be able to set In and Out points then.

                     

                    Let me know if that works for you.

                    • 7. Re: Premier cs5.5 merge clip- metadata not in sync with video
                      epsilonfilms Level 1

                      I'm afraid you don't quite understand the issue.

                      If I click the clip in the project panel or use Match Frame, it loads the clip into the source panel  and works just fine.  However, if I want to use the source panel to adjust the in or out point of a clip that's already in the timeline, that's where the problem strikes. 

                      Simply put, When I open a clip from the project panel, setting the in and out points has no effect on anything in the timeline.  The same happens when you use Match Frame. 
                      However, when I open a clip from the timeline (by double clicking it) in the source panel to edit the in and out points, my edits are incorrect in the timeline and in some circumstances the timecode is also displayed wrong.

                      I'm installing CS5.5 on a laptop to see if the problem occurs there as well.
                      Both of these Machines are running Windows 7.

                      JM

                      • 8. Re: Premier cs5.5 merge clip- metadata not in sync with video
                        epsilonfilms Level 1

                        A quick clarification: 

                         

                        I said:

                        Simply put, When I open a clip from the project panel, setting the in and out points has no effect on anything in the timeline.  The same happens when you use Match Frame.

                        I should have mentioned that this behavior is exactly as it should be.

                         

                        Opening a clip from the project panel and opening a clip from the timeline are vastly diferent things. They are used at diferent points in the edit process.  I can't use one as a workaround because the other doesn't work.

                        • 9. Re: Premier cs5.5 merge clip- metadata not in sync with video
                          epsilonfilms Level 1

                          I did more testing.

                           

                          first, the problem also happens on my laptop.

                           

                          Second, I tested what diference was made by including or excluding the audio recorded by the camera.

                           

                          The Video was recorded on a RED one and the audio on a Sound Devices 788T

                           

                          If the audio and video from the RED is merged with the audio from the 788T, the timecode problem goes away, and the video in points edit correctly. The audio from the RED also edits correctly. However, the audio from the 788T ends up being off set by X.

                           

                          if I don't include the audio from the RED in the murged clip, and only have the audio from the 788T, then the problems I discribed before arise.

                           

                          if I open the same merged clip from the project panel, set an in point, and then drag it to the timeline, the audio and video in points are not ofset.

                           


                          Basicaly, here's what I think is happening.

                           

                          The programers made a mistake with the programing.   When you set an in or out point on a merged clip in the Source Panel which has been opened from the timeline, the inpoints in the verious tracks are all set by the time alapsed from the buginging of the file.    The problem is, if I have a 10 second video clip, and I set then in point at 2 seconds into the clip, the audio tracks are also set at 2 seconds into the clip.  But, if the audio started rolling 1 second early, then the audio ends up starting 1 second before the video.  

                           

                          however, at no time is sync lost.   The audio Video sync never gets lost in any of this crasyness.

                           

                          Does this make any more sense?

                           

                          JM

                           

                          Message was edited by: epsilonfilms.  fixed a small typo

                          • 10. Re: Premier cs5.5 merge clip- metadata not in sync with video
                            LFedit Level 1

                            epsilonfilms wrote:

                             

                            I did more testing.

                             

                            first, the problem also happens on my laptop.

                             

                            Second, I tested what diference was made by including or excluding the audio recorded by the camera.

                             

                            The Video was recorded on a RED one and the audio on a Sound Devices 788T

                             

                            If the audio and video from the RED is merged with the audio from the 788T, the timecode problem goes away, and the video in points edit correctly. The audio from the RED also edits correctly. However, the audio from the 788T ends up being off set by X.

                             

                            if I don't include the audio from the RED in the murged clip, and only have the audio from the 788T, then the problems I discribed before arise.

                             

                            if I open the same merged clip from the project panel, set an in point, and then drag it to the timeline, the audio and video in points are not ofset.

                             


                            Basicaly, here's what I think is happening.

                             

                            The programers made a mistake with the programing.   When you set an in or out point on a merged clip in the Source Panel which has been opened from the timeline, the inpoints in the verious tracks are all set by the time alapsed from the buginging of the file.    The problem is, if I have a 10 second video clip, and I set then in point at 2 seconds into the clip, the audio tracks are also set at 2 seconds into the clip.  But, if the audio started rolling 1 second early, then the audio ends up starting 1 second before the video.  

                             

                            however, at no time is sync lost.   The audio Video sync never gets lost in any of this crasyness.

                             

                            Does this make any more sense?

                             

                            JM

                             

                            Message was edited by: epsilonfilms.  fixed a small typo

                            Thanks for  the great explanation of this epsilonfilms, i was having similar issues in regards to loading clips from the timeline, effecting in and out points in the source, and not having them be effected in the timeline.  In the same way you describe the time code offset, I'm getting offset as well, where the audio timecode is offset by X, but the sync remains constant.  The easiest way I've found to visually see this offset is to load a merged clip into the source, add a marker to the instance in source monitor.  The marker appears in the timeline, but is not made at the CTI where the match frame had occurred, and is offset on both the audio and video.  Can you replicate this on the PC side.  I'm running OS 10.6.6.

                             

                            LFedit

                            • 11. Re: Premier cs5.5 merge clip- metadata not in sync with video
                              epsilonfilms Level 1

                              Yep.  You were right. I checked what you said about markers, and got a few pictures. (And found another unrelated bug in the process)

                               

                              bug1.jpg

                              This is with the camera audio merged with the audio from the T788.   The marker was set by finding the moment the slate shut on the video and seting the marker.  Note that the marker on the last audio track is way to the left, instead of on the audio spike where it should be.  The time between the two markers is X, which for this particular clip is 2 seconds and 11 frames, the time between when I started the audio and the video.

                               

                              bug2.jpg

                              This time, I've removed the audio recorded by the camera.  I did the same thing here.  Open the clip in the source panel from the timeline, and find the slate clap visually.  This time, the marker on the audio track is in the correct place, while the one on the video track is very late.  2 seconds and 11 frames late. 

                              (if you look at the clip, the maker is at a point where I've removed the slate from the frame already.)

                               

                              As for the timecode issue:

                              bug3.jpg bug4.jpg

                              (the bottom image shows the correct timecode.)

                               

                              The exact same frame of the same clip, loaded two different ways, showing different timecodes.  The difference between them, in this case, is 2 seconds 11 frames. Also note the difference in the timeline directly under the timecode. 

                               

                               

                              The bug I found while doing these tests relates to the importing of audio files.  For some reason, when I loaded all the audio from the T788 the timecode of the WAVs wasn't read. (it showed them all as starting at 00:00:00:00000)  Then randomly it appeared, and I was able to sync the files using it.

                               

                              I still need to figure that out.

                               

                              JM

                              • 12. Re: Premier cs5.5 merge clip- metadata not in sync with video
                                daxmacrog Level 1

                                I imagine this bug affects a lot people who use dual-system sound. It's been causing me issues with a piece that was shot on a 5DMII with sound recorded to a Zoom H4N, just like the OP. I like to place long interview clips in a timeline sequence and cut out the portions I know I won't use.  I got stuck when I attempted to turn the remaining clips into subclips. If I double click the clip in the timeline, I see all the weird in/out point offsets in the program monitor reported above. If I make a subclip by right clicking directly on the clip in the timeline, then the in point of the subclip is correct, but the end point is way off. (I'm still getting used to Premiere's subclips. I'm used to simply dragging affiliated clips directly in the project window in FCP, which just keep their in/out points within the full-length clip -- seems simpler and more flexible if you want to review or adjust the areas just outside the edit points later.)

                                 

                                Using match frame opens the clip with the proper in/out points. Thanks Kevin for pointing that out. This is a minor extra step, but I'm not sure I understand the difference. I would expect the match frame to simply open the instance with the CTI at the same frame, but it seems to open the master source clip, adding in and out points to it. This happens to circumvent one of these bugs, but could someone explain this functionality?

                                 

                                Edit: I thought the bug did not effect subclips once they've been created, but it does. When opening subclips created from merged clips, the in/out points are still screwy. Using match frame makes it appear to straighten out but then adjusting the in/out points in the source monitor has no effect on the timeline clip, nor can you mark the clip. So match frame, though I still don't understand why it opens the source clip, is not a solution. It's worse than that though. After using match frame, subclips no longer open in the source monitor with a double click. There is only black. I have to restart to fix it.

                                 

                                Added subclip note