I agree with landrvr1. This is going to blow wide open soon. This tech won't
stay holed up for long.
Someone is going to do the same thing with a gnu license or something along
those lines and have some fancy gui where a user can place all his elements
according to an Ipad screen, etc. Something like this will happen if Adobe
doesn't do it first. But Adobe should be the first; they are the leaders in
design, right? They will profit greatly with it.
Isn't that kind of what i said with
Scenario: You get an email ... tap a downloadpath file (which isn't an actual folio.. just merely tells the viewer app where to download from) ... opens up in the viewer app and either automatically begins your download of the folio .. or asks for a password before triggering the download. "
So i mean its more of a question of extending the functions of the viewer app.. and its intergration with acrobat.com (which is $360 a year or $19 a month) and if you wanted paid content or custom viewer apps... you pay the $499 a month for the FULL DPS.
Fine with me.
Now someone needs to get it done.
Its pretty simple to use Flash to make an iOS app..
Like i said before.. we have apps out there that we exported from InDesign ....imported to flash.. and spit out an IOS application.. BING BANG BOOM. And now with CS5.5 both dreamweaver and flash do iOS Bing Bang Boom. DPS is an ENTIRE SOLUTION ... i mean just want to chop the parts off that you dont like? I would anticipate an option like your talking about coming about in CS6
In response to:
I agree with landrvr1. This is going to blow wide open soon. This tech won't
stay holed up for long.
Okay. But I don't want to make a whole app. (pout)
I just basically want a tablet-optimized magazine with some hot factor to
it; doesn't have to be as hot as Wired; It can open in safari for all I
care. I just want to be able to put it together in indesign (I'm no web
designer) and specify some interactive elements, test it, host it, and send
it out. And I don't want to wait for CS6! I just bought CS5 and then there's
CS5.5 and what, I have to wait for CS6 to handle the reason why I bought
lol. Well, it's certainly not easy using Flash to make an app, unless I'm missing something. Still requires AS3; which a shocking number of people still haven't embraced. I've barely gotten into it myself.
No, the new InDesign features...and the digital mag format in general that Adobe has created..is suberb on many design levels; not the least of which is the total ease of use and no actionScript required.
There's still 2 separate issues in my mind:
1. The tools and what you create with them.
2. Distribution method.
Adobe has chosen to blur the lines between the 2 in some hamfisted attempt (ie thinly veiled) to tell some ease-of-use story, and that sucks.
Email link with download path that automatically opens the app and loads content? Awesome
Being forced to use ANY Adobe based server to make that happen? WRETCHED.
I don't get why anyone would be so gung-ho with that solution. Wouldn't you want the freedom to ABSOLUTELY control that content on your own servers? I just simply don't understand how these always turn into 'people want something for nothing' or 'Adobe deserves to get paid' conversations?
It's got nothing to do with who deserves to get paid. It's nothing to do with Adobe having the right to make money off of distribution.
It's everything to do with choice and options and the freedom - as a customer of Adobe's - to control my own content and distribute as I see fit.
Adobe wanting to make a huge move into monopolizing content media distribution is nothing short of madness. It works for Apple and their app store. But Adobe is not Apple.
I'll say again: Adobe is not Apple.
Adobe should open this whole thing up and then let customers decide how best to distribute content. At the same time, let them continue to offer their own DSP hosting plans as a COMPETITIVE option. If it's so incredible...so reliable and amazing...it will succeed.
But this unholy marriage we now have between the tools and distribution control? Train wreck.
Oh, and one more vital point that speaks to security issues.
We've got a whole lot of Fortune 500 clients who are no doubt looking into this for their own use - not only as sales tools, but inter-office corp monthly magazines and the like.
I can say - with 150% certainly - that not one of those companies would ever let ANYONE host their content. No way, no how. It's either their own servers or nothing at all.
So...they will look elsewhere for a solution.
Translation? Adobe loses money.
A lot of money.
Thus why Adobe secured large names from the get go.
Again its a SOLUTION.. not a a'la carte feature inside indesign. If you look where its located inside InDesign.. its under EXTENSION. And your mad cause Adobe wants to have control over the destiny of its own file format and how its handled? i mean in all honesty the Digital Publishing Suite is something other than Indesign.. its a completely different product.. it just extends INTO InDesign. From the sounds of it your issue is with the features inside Adobe InDesign.. rather than the features of the Adobe Digital Publishing suite.
I'll have to agree with Landrvr1 on this one. It should be distributed such
that content can be hosted independently and not on a subscription and not
at an enormous price. If that means scaling it down, so be it.
But what im saying is that your still trying to morph Indesign and Digital Publishing Suite into this One Huge application.
Adobe Indesign Currently exports into formats such as Epub.. html .. pdf.. which are visable inside of an iOs device.
With the DPS EXTENSION you can create another format for the DPS solution. (the solution takes care of all three parts.. conversion.. app creation and distribution)
So because the DPS is something outside of Indesign.. even without the distribution part .. you still should be held accountable to pay for the app creation and conversion. And if you only create single folio apps.. your never actually charged for the distibution.
As far as large enterprise goes.. (even though the large publishing companies Adobe currently has signed dont seem to be having an issue with it).. Adobe could make a move to add the .folio Format to its other product .. the Adobe Content Server. but who knows.
lol. Well. From the InDesign page at Adobe.com
Folio Producer tools
Create and preview digital magazines, newspapers, and catalogs with engaging elements such as 360° object rotation and image panoramas for a wide variety of tablets. Upload to Adobe Digital Publishing Suite for further production and distribution.
The tools are part of InDesign - extensions/addons or not. You aren't using a separate program.
Adobe didn't force people to use Flash Media Server (or some other Adobe sponsored server); in part because people would have simply stormed the castle in protest. But now they have a new opportunity to lock up the distribution. It doesn't matter what is said or how it's justified or how it's rationalized.
It reduces choice and freedoms that all of us have enjoyed pretty much since since Day 1 with Adobe.
And that sucks.
Hey, let's back up a second. I'd like to understand the distribution flow with an Acrobat.com account.
I've just created a new folio that I'd like to distribute to 300 salespeople and reps in my company.
Each one creates their own Acrobat.com account. Done. (exceedingly painful, but done)
So....how exactly do they get that folio?
Do I have to manually add each of them to a share list?
Do I have to manually email them a link?
How exactly does this work?
For the Professional Edition hosting service of DPS, there's this blurb:
- Automatically notify readers of new content from within Content Viewer, including customized "push" notifications.
Okay, that sounds nice. But how exactly are in-house readers notified?
You'll need to share it with each of them individually. I'm sure if there's a limitation to that or not.
Again is your issue with Indesign? or the Digital Publishing suite?
Everything that you keep mentioning sounds like a limitation complaints of InDesign CS5.5
I get your frustration.. in a perfect world Adobe would extend inDesign to export (because currently you can only create and preview as the website says) the .folio format.. but then your waiting around for a 3rd party developer to make some kind of reader...
Take PDF for example.. although basic PDF is supported in iOS and is a lot more secure than the folio file.. Adobe doesn't bother developing a viewer app for it. It takes a lot of money and man power to keep your app up-to-date to the various marketplace standards... so if you fully delete the DPS and just make it part of InDesign.. there is no money to continue development....
From what i grab.. you want the .folio format to no longer be associated JUST with the DPS solution and to become and open standard?
And again your argument went to distribution.. your only charged for distrubution when you have a multifolio application. $499 a month to create as many apps as you want is BY FAR the best deal out there at the moment. Other solutions are charging $500 PER APP.
The .folio format and the DPS have only been on the market for less than two weeks.. cut it some slack lol Let Adobe make its money so that it can eventually make it an open format.... but if they change the rules of the Current DPS within the next year they can expect a lot of angry people demanding refunds...
Ok, sorry, still confused about the pricing thing... You said 499 $ per month for as many SINGLE FOLIO apps, I agree that this is BY FAR the best deal at the moment. But what is with the fee per download?? Is the fee per download only charged with MULTI FOLIOS??
Have you read the staggering number of complaints by people up and down the Adobe forums on the cost issue? Or at any number of other forums? This isn't just a few people whining about this or that. Or nitpicking. These are longtime customers who have got serious concerns. Not sure why you continue to cheerlead on this issue? I'm a fanboy too, but I'm dumbfounded how anyone can think this is even remotely sensible.
$500 per month excludes a vast amount of folks. It's a serious amount of cash.
Glad it works for you and Martha Stewart, though. lol.
$500 is the best deal out there..of the 2 options offered if you want to stay on the Adobe platform, lol.
If your application is only one folio.. like say you make an app for a book.. the folio file is already inside the application that Apple distributes.So Adobe doesn't charge you a "folio credit". For applications that allow "in app purchase" or book and magazine stand style applications that require Multi-folio downloads.. you are charged a folio credit for every folio downloaded from the server. This is where people are getting upset because your folio downloads only remain current if your license is current. Adobe cuts off the distribution if your no longer paying.
And yes landrvr1 we have participated in much of the pricing debate. Adobe adjusted the price a few times and right now.. compared to the other products on the market.. $499 is the best value( compared to the 6 different products we have tested). Enterprise level is about 10X that.
So landrvr1? what do you want for free?
What kind of a debate was this, exactly? I shudder to think what the price was like before the debate? Or did the price go up AFTER the debate? lol.
Let's take the Chicago Reader. One of the finest FREE weeklies in the nation. Let's say that they would like to do an iPad or Android version.
There's no way that they can afford $500 month. No way, no how.
So, they are screwed.
Same goes for everyone else except maybe Advance Publications. lol. Jebus.
I always HATE getting into ethical territory with these types of issues because I'm an all around free market kinda guy. It makes me cringe when people go down that road in debates when talking about private enterprise. If Adobe wants to charge $10,000 per month, so be it. Knock themselves out.
But in this case I'm going to make an exception and go against my usual position and state, quite simply: Adobe is on morally and ethically shaky ground with this entire pricing structure. Oh how wonderful that the Rupert Murdocks of the world will be able to afford the DPS pricing structure. But as for the little guy?
I only say this because Adobe - almost since Day 1 - have always waxed poetic about the democratizing of publishing as a result of their products and how proud they are to be a part of that.
I'm not expecting anything for free, and it's disengenuous to suggest otherwise.
I would, however, be willing to pay $100 per month to use their servers for the hosting of our folios. Folios which, incidently, would be for in-house use only and not part of any magazine subscription plan.
It sounds like to me that your asking for a new product outside of the DPS solution.
I love InDesign. I'm still relatively new to the product, but it's a great platform for this kind of thing.
No new product, please. Well...unless we're talking about an app creator in which I won't have to freakin learn C++, lol.
Just another way to export out of InDesign...and keep the sideloading option...is all I'm asking for.
In the meantime...
$100 going once. $100 going twice...
I just know that if I go to the higher ups and tell them it's gonna cost over $5000 to send digital brochures out to folks, they will take me behind the woodshed and beat me senseless.
As well they should, lol
But creating that option more or less deteriorates the Digital Publishing Suite and its current paying customers. Folio, how it is today residing only on adobe servers, protects large and little publishers from worry that their content will be able to "sideload" without purchase (much like the exploit many of digital publishers fight with leaked PDF formats).. this is kind of what apple did with the locked Itunes format. As it is today.. "folio" is for only the DPS solution.. its not some old format Adobe just now decided to cut off your access to... it was developed and meant to link directly into the SOLUTION.
Options i see:
Adobe could create Another new export format that is compatible with iOS and allow 3rd party to develop a viewer (much like they did with PDF)
Adobe could make PDF a more compliant file format for iOS
Apple develop's their own Publishing method
Yeah, your first option there is the best. Keep the content creation within InDesign, but totally separate the export types and viewer. (Though the viewer could, arguably, stay the same).
I think I mentioned this earlier about a different export type. You could literally just change the extension and probably a minimal amount of program code in order for that to work.
The PDF option is an interesting one, but dead in the water for so many reasons.
Well i mean with the "extendability" your asking (unlinking from the adobe server), adobe shouldn't be obligated to develop two seperate viewers. Currently how the viewer is set up.. its ment only to be a preview and testing tool... not a solution for distribution. But then we rotate around my suggestion of extending the viewer app to handle a distrubition from Acrobat.com lol
So i guess the next year should be interesting.. CS6 should be interesting too lol
Soooo. Mobile devices are really the only method to view folios at this point, correct? Is that what I'm hearing?
Whereas before, folios could be viewed with the desktop viewer as well.
There is still a desktop viewer.
And as Bob said above.. the Desktop viewer (pre-viewer) is still in place and accessed when you preview your folio file.
Both the Desktop preview and The content view app were developed for Testing/previewing purposes not distribution.
Adobe announced to the pre-release that they are still working on both a webviewer.. and desktop viewer as distribution options.. neither were ready for testing or release. They quoted the limitations of AIR (like it doesn't support PDF) .. caching.. and security of files as some of the issues they are working on.
Yeah, that was my next question: Can someone that downloads a folio I create view it on their desktops. Answer sounds like a 'no' for now.
Jeesh, this entire thing is really just a fantastically limited platform isn't it??!! lol. I mean.....lots of new bells and whistles purely for iPad/tablet use?
They really should have just called this iPad Publishing Suite, lol.
Right? Am I missing something here? All those amazing and wonderful issues of an interactive subscription based magazine that someone creates is only viewable on a mobile device?
Though in this case Adobe does clearly state TABLET DEVICES all over the place, so I'll let this one slide.
Still, doesn't change the point I was making about just calling it the iPad Pub Suite.
Bend_033 said just use Flash and Dreamweaver to create the apps - so, does this mean you could use ID, create your content, spit out html/swf content, import to Dreamweaver and then export to an IOS app? To quote him "BING BANG BOOM" Is it really that easy and if so, isn't that a solution for the single apps approach? Trying to figure all this out myself.
Check out some of the new feature videos on the subject at Adobe TV. (They are CS5 and CS5.5 features)
The point of bringing it up here was more or less to illustrate that are are many solutions to the "digital publication" solution. Dreamweaver to ios is meant more for HTML views while Flash to iOS is meant for more interactive content. If you understand the integration and interaction among the programs and with proper training, it is a very simple step to take your indesign layouts to iOS.
And as i stated before.. we have done that route.. have some amazing apps but we are willing to pay $500 a month to have a quicker and easier process in our workflow.
We are developing a folio file to be used by our sales team to support the launch of our latest product.
The roadshow is planned for 20th of May.
We planned to hire a application developer but Adobe convinced us by workshops and the internet to go with the Digital Publishing solution.
We are now almost finishing the project. We have our folio's, they are posted on Acrobat.com. We have upgraded to the 5.5 to make sure we have the latest tools. Now, at the end of the process, we tried to upload the folio onto our iPad, using the Adobe Content viewer, we see the file (no preview) but when we hit "Donwload" I get an error-message saying that the file is missing.
If I understand correctly, this is because you are working on a new Adobe Content viewer, which still has to be approved by Apple.
Does this means that we have NO option to download the files onto our iPads for the time-being?
When will the problem be solved? My company will not be too happy if I cannot deliver the working file on the iPads soon.
Ask Apple...they're the ones holding it up.
..and we come right back to my point. It's awful having to rely on Adobe and Apple as the sole means of distribution.
What do I tell my boss? Before the end of May? Or do we have to start looking for alternatives? (Hiring the app-guy afterall?)
I've no idea when Adobe submitted the new app, but Apple seems to be at around 4 weeks approval time for apps.
Of course, when they see Adobe's name they no doubt tack on an additional 2 weeks. Just because they can.
Seriously, broham. I feel your pain. At least if you create your own app you can distribute it via the Enterprise method and not go through anyone but your own servers.
Thanks very must, I will have a look at it ASAP!!!
Adobe, please keep me posted on the Apple-story.
I just did some checking on what it would take to build apps in Flash/Flash Builder. I build Flash sites several times a year, so I'm certainly no newbie to the platform (though as mentioned earlier, I'm still on AS2). But from what I've seen so far in terms of app creation:
It's a phantasmagoric mess of AS3, MXML, CSS, and Java.
And in typical Adobe fashion, it's mind-numbingly unclear exactly what tools do what..lol. How does Flash come into play vs Flash Builder? How does Flex and Catalyst come into play? How does Air figure into the mix?
God forbid there should just be a simple page somewhere at Adobe.com entitled:
So You Wanna Build An App.
And then take us through an exceedingly clear and simple set of vids about how to start, and how each of those components can factor in... lol.
You wonder why many of us are excited about InDesign for simple app creation? Even using the canned format? See above.