10 Replies Latest reply on May 12, 2011 12:16 PM by Jim_Simon

    Dual System Sound

    Jim_Simon Level 8

      Now that CS5.5 has a simple method to properly combine video and audio recorded separately, which is made even simpler when both video and audio have the same timecode, I'm wondering how folks out there are going about making that happen.

       

      What model camera and audio recorder are you using?  How do you get timecode from the camera into the audio device?  Has anyone achieved TC output from a Nikon D7000?

        • 1. Re: Dual System Sound
          Colin Brougham Level 6

          DSLRs don't generate timecode. DSLRs don't have a means of locking to external timecode, unless you use something like Lockit Buddy. This requires an external recorder that generates timecode; the Lockit Buddy writes audio TC to the DSLR audio track, slaving it to the external TCG. This is all pretty much a moot point, however, since Premiere doesn't read audio TC. However, if you get something like VideoToolShed - FCP auxTC reader you can merge the MOVs with audio TC and the BWF files from your recorder. At that point, the Merge Clips feature is not used.

           

          Or, try Singular Software - PluralEyes. No TC required.

          • 2. Re: Dual System Sound
            the_wine_snob Level 9

            I was going to mention PluralEyes, but you beat me to it.

             

            Hunt

            • 3. Re: Dual System Sound
              shooternz Level 6
              This is all pretty much a moot point, however, since Premiere doesn't read audio TC.

               

              I thought they fixed that it in 5.03

               

              Must test it for myself when I can get around to it.

               

               

              Work around I would try for DSLR clips is Paste T/C

              • 4. Re: Dual System Sound
                Colin Brougham Level 6
                I thought they fixed that it in 5.03

                 

                Yes, for BWF files; but I'm talking about video files that have an audio TC (or AUX TC) track. Different critters.

                 

                Work around I would try for DSLR clips is Paste T/C

                 

                That would suck on Warp Factor 10. There really isn't any point in pasting the TC (which yes, you could do) to the MOVs, because to get to that point, you'd have to manually/visually sync the clips. You might as well just use Merge Clips from that point, then--no need for TC.

                • 5. Re: Dual System Sound
                  shooternz Level 6

                  Test I just did reads the TC from files recorded in

                  a professional external recorder ( free run TC) no problem (but maybe they are BWF as you say.)

                   

                  Nonetheless..I cant see why that is not helpful in a synching up workflow with amateur film making gear such as DSLRs.  Sight match synching is no big deal really. (thats what assistant editors are for).

                  • 6. Re: Dual System Sound
                    Colin Brougham Level 6

                    It's like this:

                     

                    • BWF has timecode.
                    • DSLR MOV has no timecode, but records scratch audio track.
                    • Drop both BWF and MOV in PPro sequence; you can't sync them by timecode since only one of them has timecode.
                    • You could paste the TC into the MOV, but you'd still have to manually sync the clips visually (e.g. slate) in order to know what the TC value of frame #1 should be.
                    • At that point, there is no sense pasting the TC, since you already have the MOV and the BWF synced. Simply drag them to the bin to create a merged clip. No TC required.

                     

                    The only way that syncing with TC makes sense is if you have TC in the files to begin with. DSLRs don't provide that, and there are workarounds that involve extra kit. That's where simple visual syncing just works; Plural Eyes can make that semi-automatic.

                     

                    FWIW: my buddy just built a small device that flashes an LED and makes a tone blip. Start recording on the camera and external recorder, and hit the button; you'll have clear sync points in post.

                    • 7. Re: Dual System Sound
                      shooternz Level 6
                      FWIW: my buddy just built a small device that flashes an LED and makes a tone blip. Start recording on the camera and external recorder, and hit the button; you'll have clear sync points in post.

                       

                      I have a slate  app in my Android phone that does that ...as well..it emails a shotlist of the takes and TCs.to the editor.

                      • 8. Re: Dual System Sound
                        Jim_Simon Level 8

                        OK, so DSLRs can't output timecode.  (Shame.)

                         

                        What other cameras are folks using out there which can send timecode to an external audio recorder?  What model audio recorders are you pairing those cameras with?  How is the TC connection made between devices.

                        • 9. Re: Dual System Sound
                          Colin Brougham Level 6

                          What other cameras are folks using out there which can send timecode to an external audio recorder?

                           

                          Most of the time, it's the other way around: the audio recorder is the TC source, and the camera jam syncs to that. Any camera with a TC input will be able to sync.

                           

                          What model audio recorders are you pairing those cameras with?

                           

                          There are a few options. Some recorders don't have TCG, but can accept external timecode from another source, like a SB-T Time Code Generator / Reader and Tri-Level Sync Box. If the recorder can sync to that, like the Tascam HD-P2 Portable Stereo CF Recorder as well as the camera, you're good. Or, something like an Edirol / Roland R-4 Pro 4 Channel Portable Field R-4PRO which has it's own TCG could be used. Either way, you're looking at about $2K+.

                          • 10. Re: Dual System Sound
                            Jim_Simon Level 8

                            you're looking at about $2K+.

                             

                            Not my money, so...that may be OK.

                             

                            Anyone else?