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1. Re: Grep that finds curly quotes and changes to straight ones, but only after digits....
iBabs2 May 12, 2011 12:41 PM (in response to iBabs2)Here was another attempt...and what is really weird, is if I use the Unicode for the curly quote, and the Unicode for the straight quote nothing happens? But if in the change to field, I put any other Unicode value in there, like for the plus sign, or an ampersand or anything else, it does replace it just fine, just not the quotation marks????
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2. Re: Grep that finds curly quotes and changes to straight ones, but only after digits....
dave c courtemanche May 12, 2011 5:05 PM (in response to iBabs2)Don't know if it will help or not, but out of curiousity, do you have your preferences set up to use Typographer's Quotes? (Preferences/Type/Use Typographer's Quotes).
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3. Re: Grep that finds curly quotes and changes to straight ones, but only after digits....
[Jongware] May 13, 2011 3:01 AM (in response to iBabs2)" is any sort of double quote (straight, curly, open, and close).
To force a certain sort of quote, use one of these:
~{ double curly open
~} double curly close
~" Straight
" (In Replace only) Use the Use Typographer's Quotes setting (i.e., if On, change to the appropriate curly open or close, else use the straight one)
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4. Re: Grep that finds curly quotes and changes to straight ones, but only after digits....
iBabs2 May 13, 2011 4:19 AM (in response to dave c courtemanche)HI Dave,
Yes, it is set to typographers quotes.
But, I need curly ones to for the regular text, just the straight ones for inches.
Will try Jongware's suggestion and see what happens...
thanks!!!
babs
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6. Re: Grep that finds curly quotes and changes to straight ones, but only after digits....
[Jongware] May 13, 2011 5:33 AM (in response to iBabs2)Ah, so that was your goal -- it's for inches.
You are right, this is a change in the text itself and so it cannot be done with a GREP style.
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7. Re: Grep that finds curly quotes and changes to straight ones, but only after digits....
P Spier May 13, 2011 5:38 AM (in response to [Jongware])Sounds like a good feature request, though -- the ability to override the default curly quote setting as part of a character style.
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8. Re: Grep that finds curly quotes and changes to straight ones, but only after digits....
iBabs2 May 13, 2011 5:44 AM (in response to P Spier)I think it would be a great feature!!!
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10. Re: Grep that finds curly quotes and changes to straight ones, but only after digits....
iBabs2 May 13, 2011 5:54 AM (in response to P Spier)I sent it ;-)
thanks!!
babs
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11. Re: Grep that finds curly quotes and changes to straight ones, but only after digits....
John Hawkinson May 13, 2011 6:00 AM (in response to P Spier)Sounds like a good feature request, though -- the ability to override the default curly quote setting as part of a character style.
It seems kind of like it violates the principle of least astonishment though...character styles don't change around unicode characters. A character is a character (though of course a font might change the glyph that backs the character on the basis of some attributes, like OTF glyph options...).
If you could do it for curly/straightquotes, then someone would want to substitute parens () for brackets [] and then + for & and pretty soon we would have a generic substitution feature replacing alphas with a's and t's with l's and then the universe would just end (not to mention search-and-replace would be nightmare).
Imminent death of the universe predicted!
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12. Re: Grep that finds curly quotes and changes to straight ones, but only after digits....
iBabs2 May 13, 2011 6:40 AM (in response to John Hawkinson)...I just wanted some inch marks after a fraction......that's all.... does the entire universe really have to suffer?
GULP......
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13. Re: Grep that finds curly quotes and changes to straight ones, but only after digits....
P Spier May 13, 2011 7:02 AM (in response to John Hawkinson)But you can already change the glyphs used for quotes by changing what language is assigned before typing (but not apparently by changing the language after). Clearly quote handling is not strictly looking at the unicode value of the keystroke but is assigning the value based on a language switch. I fail to see why that couldn't be dynamic in the same way that Small Caps or All Caps are dynamic.
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14. Re: Grep that finds curly quotes and changes to straight ones, but only after digits....
John Hawkinson May 13, 2011 7:13 AM (in response to P Spier)(We all know I'm being a bit silly here, I hope...)
I draw a distinction between the keystroke typed and the character entered, and I'm a bit concerned at the idea of modes that change the character after it is entered. Modes that change which character a given keystroke produces are fine. Not only the language choice or the Typographer's Quotes choice, but even traditional things like the shift key.
Small caps is properly an internal font feature that does change glyphs associated with a character, but for some fonts it is emulated in InDesign. And All Caps? You're right, it is a massless and soulless tear in the fabric of the universe that threatens to envelop us all.
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15. Re: Grep that finds curly quotes and changes to straight ones, but only after digits....
P Spier May 13, 2011 7:36 AM (in response to John Hawkinson)Well, I'm no Engineer, and I suppose it would require all the font manufacturers to rebuild the fonts to handle it the same as small caps/ordinals/superscripts are currently handled by OpenType, but All Caps and OpenType Fractions are BOTH done by changing the glyphs, and they can be changed by styles, so I think this is a legit request.
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16. Re: Grep that finds curly quotes and changes to straight ones, but only after digits....
iBabs2 May 13, 2011 7:36 AM (in response to John Hawkinson)Hi John,
yeah...I knew you were being silly....really, I did... Well..mostly LOL
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17. Re: Grep that finds curly quotes and changes to straight ones, but only after digits....
P Spier May 13, 2011 7:49 AM (in response to John Hawkinson)it is a massless and soulless tear in the fabric of the universe that threatens to envelop us all.
But how much worse can it get than all those airplanes falling from the sky and the power grid shutting down on Jan 1, 2000?
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18. Re: Grep that finds curly quotes and changes to straight ones, but only after digits....
iBabs2 May 13, 2011 7:57 AM (in response to P Spier)You really can't beat getting answers and be entertained at the same time...
After all, like I tell my students, "Learning should be fun too"
life is good
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19. Re: Grep that finds curly quotes and changes to straight ones, but only after digits....
Jeremy bowmangraphics May 13, 2011 7:58 AM (in response to iBabs2)...I just wanted some inch marks after a fraction......that's all.... does the entire universe really have to suffer?
Just to add my little twist of the thumbscrew, shouldn't feet and inches be marked by primes and double-primes rather than straight quotation marks?
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20. Re: Grep that finds curly quotes and changes to straight ones, but only after digits....
John Hawkinson May 13, 2011 8:00 AM (in response to P Spier)Well, I'm no Engineer, and I suppose it would require all the font
manufacturers to rebuild the fonts to handle it the same as small
No...given that All Caps, is handled by InDesign without special
font support, this feature could work the same way. A Character
panel option (like All Caps) that Forces Straight Quotes.
Or maybe that was your point. (?)
It can certainly be done.
Question is merely whether it should be done.
But how much worse can it get than all those airplanes falling from the sky
How could you ask such a thing? Surely having the entire universe
sucked into a rift and enveloped in eternal blackness without sunshine,
light, or heat is far worse than a few aluminum chassis falling into the
ocean and there being no power grid to run InDesign unless you purchased
the hand-crank version!
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21. Re: Grep that finds curly quotes and changes to straight ones, but only after digits....
P Spier May 13, 2011 8:05 AM (in response to John Hawkinson)I'm sure Jean Luc Picard could find a way to save us (I have less faith in James Kirk).
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22. Re: Grep that finds curly quotes and changes to straight ones, but only after digits....
M Blackburn May 13, 2011 10:19 AM (in response to Jeremy bowmangraphics)> shouldn't feet and inches be marked by primes
That's what I was thinking, but most fonts don't have primes. And as far as I can tell, of those that do, some use their straight quotes and some their "curly" quotes (some fonts have simple slanted for curly quotes and their primes match the slanted quotes rather than the straight).
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24. Re: Grep that finds curly quotes and changes to straight ones, but only after digits....
iBabs2 May 13, 2011 10:57 AM (in response to Jeremy bowmangraphics)It always amazes me, how many more things I learn from a post.
Very interesting...thanks!!
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25. Re: Grep that finds curly quotes and changes to straight ones, but only after digits....
M Blackburn May 13, 2011 10:59 AM (in response to Jeremy bowmangraphics)Jeremy,
To be honest, I'm not familiar with the CMoS, but obviously your reference doesn't address the differences between fonts.
And to those others in still paying attention:
Wouldn’t the more dynamic solution be to add a preference to use straight quotes after numerals, so that typeset and imported copy automatically use quotes where quotes belong and primes where primes belong?
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26. Re: Grep that finds curly quotes and changes to straight ones, but only after digits....
P Spier May 13, 2011 12:38 PM (in response to M Blackburn)M Blackburn wrote:
Wouldn’t the more dynamic solution be to add a preference to use straight quotes after numerals, so that typeset and imported copy automatically use quotes where quotes belong and primes where primes belong?
I don't think it's quite that simple. I can imagine scenarios where a string ending in a numeral would be in quotation marks and would not be feet or inches, so I wouldn't really want an automated system that makes all quotes after numerals into primes (of course you'd have to watch out for that in a GREP Style, too, I suppose).
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27. Re: Grep that finds curly quotes and changes to straight ones, but only after digits....
M Blackburn May 13, 2011 1:34 PM (in response to P Spier)I can imagine scenarios...
I had originally thought to mention that, but dropped it because it really
would be pretty rare, and I couldn't come up with a legitimate example. Even
punctuation could ensure that a curly quote would follow a number within a
quote. And being a preference it could be turned off. But your right, it's
not foolproof.
But I wonder if that adding a preference function to character styles really
helps much. It seems much harder for an average user to implement. Would not
one have to be fairly adept at grep styles in order set up paragraph styles
that automatically chose the correct form when setting or flowing in text?
And would it not also be necessary to include that functionality in every
paragraph style that potentially had measurements?
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28. Re: Grep that finds curly quotes and changes to straight ones, but only after digits....
Joel Cherney May 13, 2011 1:44 PM (in response to M Blackburn)I had originally thought to mention that, but dropped it because it really
would be pretty rare, and I couldn't come up with a legitimate example. Even
punctuation could ensure that a curly quote would follow a number within a
quote. And being a preference it could be turned off. But your right, it's
not foolproof.
Legit example: Non-English languages in which a close quote comes before any punctuation. This is not rare at all; I have five languages of a fifteen-language translation open right now, and because it's a health-care manual it's full of variations on "Call our customer service number at 503-555-1212." In three of those five languages, punctuation falls outside the quote, so there are... er... eighty-one instances of a digit followed directly by a close quote.
If you're going to go submit a feature request, please do mention that it should be a preference that can be turned off.
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29. Re: Grep that finds curly quotes and changes to straight ones, but only after digits....
P Spier May 13, 2011 2:06 PM (in response to M Blackburn)Well it's probably more skill intensive than a plain old preference, as any GREP style (or find/change) would be, but that provides a certain level of having to think about what you are doing, which is probably important for this.
I think the liklihood of finding a "legitimate" number followed by quotation marks may be somewhat cultural, and certainly depends on the the context and what was to follow. The previously mentioned Chicago Manual of Style, for example, says that (in conventional typesetting in the US) periods and commas always go inside the quotes, but other punctuation only when it is part of the original text being quoted (as in: How old was John when he said, "when I grow up I'm going to drive an Audi A4"?), and also mentions traditional British style in which the punctuation is outside (and I have no idea how common that usage is today). I can also see where you might encounter something like "you're 'number 1' in my book," though convention might dictate spelling out 'one.'
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30. Re: Grep that finds curly quotes and changes to straight ones, but only after digits....
M Blackburn May 13, 2011 2:28 PM (in response to P Spier)Fair enough. It would only be beneficial as a Preference in a manual or
something laden with measurements. And even then only in the States, which I
am not.
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31. Re: Grep that finds curly quotes and changes to straight ones, but only after digits....
VincentNoiseux Dec 21, 2012 8:41 AM (in response to iBabs2)This works inside InDesign, but if I try to use this expression in the FindChangebyStyle script, it fails. Any idea?








