25 Replies Latest reply on May 23, 2011 10:23 AM by Kevin-Monahan

    Mac Conversion for CS5 Nightmare

    lightprism Level 1

      After seeing the FCP Supermeet at NAB this year I decided to make the switch to CS5.5

       

      I took the following Mac and made these changes to upgrade the Mac in prep for CS5.5:

       

      Intel Mac 3,1 Quad Core 2008

      3Ghz

      Up'ed the Ram to 32Gb DDR2

      Clean Install (Erase/Reformat) 320Gb 7200RPM Operating System Drive and installed 64 bit Snow Leopard

      Installed updates to make Snow Leopard 10.6.7 version

      Installed base driver for new Quadro 4000 for the Mac graphics card (because of Apple partial support you have to use an older graphics card to install this driver BEFORE you install the Quadro 4000 physically)

      Physically installed the Quadro 4000

      Installed the Cuda driver

      Updated the Cuda driver to current driver using the Cuda Panel interface

      Installed CS5.5 from DVD disc set

       

      Have separate 750Gb 7200RPM media drives

      Have an external 600mbps read/write dual channed 0 Raid array for media as well

       

       

      NIGHTMARE!

      Can barely play 1 track of h.264 video/audio on an HDSLR timeline preset

      Can barely play 1 track fo video/audio on XDCAM EX 720p 24fps that comes with Adobe CS5 Classroom in a Book

       

      Playback stutters and drops frames, audio glitches even when Playback Resolution is dropped down to 1/2 and 1/4 resolution

       

      I have used both the Playback with Mercury and GPU acceleration and Mercury Engine Software only - same resulting stuttering playback

       

      Watching graphical CPU usage  when playing back single track and there seems to be plenty of headroom

      Media is stored on drive and raid separate from operating system drive. Scratch drive is on drive separate from Op Sys drive

       

      The only out of spec component with this Mac is I am missing "Core Audio sound card"

       

      But I have seen all sorts of Mac laptops running multiple tracks of HD with all kinds of effects applied and they played/scrubbed through the composition like butter.

       

      Any idea - this MacPro tower with 32Gb and Quadro 4000 cuda card should tear it up with CS5.5

        • 1. Re: Mac Conversion for CS5 Nightmare
          davidbeisner2010 Level 3

          Yeah, you've definitely got something messed up there... Check your graphics drivers and see if perhaps you need to roll back one version. Sometimes the most recent version of drivers actually have bugs in them that create troubles.

          • 2. Re: Mac Conversion for CS5 Nightmare
            lightprism Level 1

            I already tried rolling back the Cuda driver and that did not help.

             

            Tried going thru the whole procedure of installing the Quadro card from scratch a second time and tried using the original Cuda driver (3.x) then the newest one (4.1). Same results - stuttering video.

             

            But now you have me thinking - what about the base Quadro card driver - maybe the one that came with the card on the CD has a problem?

             

            What driver version are people with Quadro 4000 for the Mac cards using that are successful. I have read that while Apple claims OpenCL support, they really have not implemented it yet for this mac graphics card.

            Thanks for the help.

            • 3. Re: Mac Conversion for CS5 Nightmare
              Todd_Kopriva Level 8

              How do the same media files play back in QuickTime Player 7?

              1 person found this helpful
              • 4. Re: Mac Conversion for CS5 Nightmare
                lightprism Level 1

                Some files play ok.

                 

                But trying to open mpeg video files in OT Player 7.6.6 shows only a black screen.

                 

                When I merely go directly to the file with the Finder, this same mpeg file shows a black screen. And when I click on the "More info" button the more info pane pops up but it locks the Mac up with the infinite spinning beach ball.

                 

                Think you are on to something.

                • 5. Re: Mac Conversion for CS5 Nightmare
                  Jim_Simon Level 8

                  What is the model number of the CPU?

                  • 6. Re: Mac Conversion for CS5 Nightmare
                    lightprism Level 1

                    Mac Pro 3,1

                    Quad Core Intel Xeon

                    3GHz

                    2 Processors

                    Total Number of Cores - 8 Cores

                    32 Gb of Ram DDR2

                    • 7. Re: Mac Conversion for CS5 Nightmare
                      Colin Brougham Level 6

                      Your DSLR footage: this doesn't happen to be from a Nikon DSLR, does it? If so, check this: Stuttering Playback in CS5.5

                      • 8. Re: Mac Conversion for CS5 Nightmare
                        lightprism Level 1

                        No - DSLR footage is from both Media supplied with Adobe Classroom in a Book for Premiere CS5 and from our own Canon 7D.

                         

                        Yeah - I have read the issue with the Nikon 7000 DSLR footage - remember Nikon just changed over from using Motion JPEG codec for their video functions on their HDSLR's with the Nikon 7000.

                         

                        The more I get into this changeover from Leopard 32bit to Snow Leopard 64bit and the Quadro 4000 for the Mac graphics cards and their driver issues with Apple  to get setup for using CS5.5...

                         

                        I am sorry to say - this is not a good route to go yet - beware. Tons of unresolved issues all over the place:

                         

                        Snow Leopard 10.6.7 - keyboard goes wonky regularly - freezes up - all over the Apple forum

                        Quicktime 10 vs rollback to QT 7.6.6

                        Force quitting the Dock to regain control of keyboard and mounse

                        Quadro 4000 for the Mac graphics card to get Cuda acceleration - drivers not working right - full support from Apple for the card not there - you even have to use an older graphics card to boot up and install Quadro 4000 base driver before you can physically install the Quadro 4000 driver! Then there is the incomplete implementation of OpenCL by Apple for this card - for months - is this to hamper folks like us that are changing over from FCP to CS5.5 because Apple is coming with FCPX and has relationships with ATI Radeon cards? Conspiracy Theory on my part - but you cannot even order a MacPro Tower with any nVidia cards now ...

                         

                        Just a mess in my experience.

                         

                        But I did see MacBook Pro laptops running CS5.5 wonderfully at NAB this year - it can work somehow. But our IT guy and myself have spent waaaay too many hours on this trial conversion. We could have just purchased a Windows 7 machine and CS5.5 for on the Windows platform and have been done with it.

                         

                        Would hope that someone with a currently spec'ed for CS5.5 Mac Pro tower with the only approved Cuda accelerated graphics card (Quadro 4000 for the Mac) would chime in and give us some hope that it can be done.

                        • 9. Re: Mac Conversion for CS5 Nightmare
                          lightprism Level 1

                          Just to be clear in my last post, what I meant by "trial installation" of CS5.5 on the Mac ....

                           

                          this install was from a purchased set of CS5.5 Upgrade DVD's and not a 30 day trial download from the web.

                           

                          By "trial installation" I meant that we took only one of our Leopard 32 bit Final Cut Pro Studio machines, and used it to see how upgrading to clean install of 64bit Snow Leopard, 32 Gb ram, Quadro 4000 for the Mac, and clean install of CS5.5 would work out. Sad to say, so far it has not. Either the 3,1 Mac Pro tower doesn't really have the CPU power to handle compressed video like HDCAM EX or h.264 (from a Canon DSLR), or Snow Leopard has too many issues, or the Quadro 4000 for the Mac with its Cuda driver or base driver - or a combo of these issues ... well they just are not stable and trustworthy in a business environment.

                           

                          Unless we can figure it out in the next day or so, headed back to FCP on this trial machine. Really liked the CS5.5 I saw at NAB - I know it is possible - just beyond me how to get there. So back to render-hell. 

                          • 10. Re: Mac Conversion for CS5 Nightmare
                            lightprism Level 1

                            Wow!

                             

                            Update: I just looked at the Adobe CS5.5 webpage and the Quadro 4000 for the Mac is no longer listed as an approved card for CS5.5!

                             

                            Can someone from Adobe please comment on this change - is there something I should know so we don't keep beating our heads against the wall to get CS5.5 working.

                             

                            adobe.com/products/premiere/faq.html

                             

                            This card was listed yesterday and for several weeks as being approved for the Mac with the other specs. Now it is suddenly gone.

                            • 11. Re: Mac Conversion for CS5 Nightmare
                              Todd_Kopriva Level 8

                              The Quadro 4000 is a card that Premiere Pro CS5.5 will use to provide CUDA processing features. The complete list of such cards is here:

                              http://www.adobe.com/products/premiere/tech-specs.html

                              1 person found this helpful
                              • 12. Re: Mac Conversion for CS5 Nightmare
                                lightprism Level 1

                                Thanks Todd for the quick response - just an error on the Adobe page I noted.

                                 

                                So I am back to square one - the only glimmer of an answer was your pointing to QT 7  -  could you provide more details to work with to end this nightmare.

                                It would be much appreciated.

                                • 13. Re: Mac Conversion for CS5 Nightmare
                                  Todd_Kopriva Level 8

                                  I've got the Premiere Pro CS5 Classroom in a Book in my office, where I also have Premiere Pro CS5.5 on a Mac. If you tell me exactly what file you're using to test with from the book, I'll try to reproduce your issue myself tomorrow. I'm typing this answer now from home, where all I have is Windows 7 and no copy of the book.

                                   

                                  In general, if QuickTime Player can't play a file, it's because you don't have the codec installed for QuickTime. Premiere Pro uses QuickTime to import and decode some kinds of movies; if what you're trying to import is one of those, then you won't have any better success with Premiere Pro than with QuickTime Player. You can sometimes trick Premiere Pro into using one of its other importers by changing the filename extension from .mov (e.g., to .mpg); in general, this isn't a good idea, but it can be useful for troubleshooting.

                                   

                                  Updating to the newest version of QuickTime 7 is often a good idea. I'm using 7.6.9 these days, with no problems.

                                  • 14. Re: Mac Conversion for CS5 Nightmare
                                    lightprism Level 1

                                    Thank you Todd - your offer is extremely generous - I know you are a very busy person and taking the time to personally try to help me through this problem says a lot about your concerns for customer service.

                                     

                                    The files from Adobe Classroom in a Book CS5 that I am having choppy dropped frames and freezing are:

                                     

                                    Medieval_villain_01.mpeg

                                     

                                    Medieval_Hero_01.mpeg

                                     

                                    And the same trouble with h.264 files from Adobe TV Workflow.prproj (think it is the second lesson with the bike riders near the ocean)

                                     

                                    A-Roll_PlanA_08.mp4

                                     

                                    B-Roll_RideBy_04.mp4

                                     

                                    B-Roll_train.mp4

                                     

                                     

                                    It would also be valuable in your test to let us know the general spec on the MacPro you are using - Model 3,1 - 4,1 etc

                                    Graphics card

                                    and Ram

                                     

                                    Hopefully your Mac is the same model and that will rule out CPU - but if yours has more CPU cores, then maybe that tells us something too.

                                     

                                    Thank you again for taking the time to run this testing - I and others appreciate it very much!

                                    • 15. Re: Mac Conversion for CS5 Nightmare
                                      Todd_Kopriva Level 8

                                      I just tried the clips from the Premiere Pro CS5 Classroom in a Book that you mentioned. They work fine on my Mac, as well as on my coworker's Mac. My coworker's Mac matches yours, except that it has only 12GB of RAM.

                                       

                                      Something is definitely wrong here, but it's hard to know what.

                                       

                                      Do you have the ability to try on a different computer?

                                      • 16. Re: Mac Conversion for CS5 Nightmare
                                        lightprism Level 1

                                        All our other edit bays are still at 32bit Leopard and are on jobs.

                                        We pulled this one and did the noted conversion that we are having the problems with.

                                         

                                        I guess your testing is both good news - the 3,1 model CAN be converted over and do a decent job.

                                        I assume your co-worker's 3,1 had a Quadro 4000 for the Mac graphics card?

                                        No choppy dropped frames at 1/2 or 1/4 playback resolution?

                                         

                                        Bad news is the only idea I have left is start all over again and see if that changes it.

                                         

                                        One new item to note, this morning on boot-up, when opening the "About this Mac" panel, the internal bong sound starts going off repeatedly (as if you are holding down a keyboard key continuously. And the scroll bars could not be used - when you drag one down and let go, they pop back up to the top. The only way to stop this all was to re-boot.

                                         

                                        Yesterday I re-installed FCP and that gave me back the codec for nanoFlash XDCAMHD 422 files (and probably a lot of other missing codecs).

                                        I then opened up a matching sequence in Premiere CS5.5 and was able to import one of these files now - so your advice on the missing codec helped here.

                                        But when I placed this file on the timeline - video only - no audio, it stuttered and dropped frames no matter what resolution used for playback,

                                        Then, here is the most telling thing, I rendered the "entire workspace" (1 clip of video only - 20 secs in length) it took 2mins/52 seconds with all 8 cores maxing out to render it.

                                        I then got the green line above the video in the timeline - AND STILL THE VIDEO PLAYED BACK STUTTERING AND DROPPING FRAMES EVEN THOUGH RENDERED!!

                                         

                                        That seems to indicate I either have something wrong with the video card or it's drivers? And maybe this morning's boot up demonstrates that as well?

                                        What do you folks think?

                                         

                                        Thank you so much Todd for making the extra effort to help with my problem.

                                         

                                        So anyone following this issue, it appears to not be a CS5.5 issue - but an issue with my individual machine - or graphics card or driver. Would be interested to know what graphics card and drivers you folks were using for this test.

                                        • 17. Re: Mac Conversion for CS5 Nightmare
                                          jeremy d. Level 3

                                          Todd_Kopriva wrote:

                                           

                                          I just tried the clips from the Premiere Pro CS5 Classroom in a Book that you mentioned. They work fine on my Mac, as well as on my coworker's Mac.

                                           

                                          Mine too.

                                          • 18. Re: Mac Conversion for CS5 Nightmare
                                            Kevin-Monahan Adobe Employee

                                            Can you run the Apple Hardware test? http://support.apple.com/kb/HT1509

                                            Perhaps you've got bad RAM or other hardware issue.

                                            • 19. Re: Mac Conversion for CS5 Nightmare
                                              lightprism Level 1

                                              Thank you much Kevin for the lead on this diagnostic. Will

                                              try that in a few hours. Excellent lead!

                                              • 20. Re: Mac Conversion for CS5 Nightmare
                                                lightprism Level 1

                                                Jeremy:

                                                 

                                                Thank you very much for taking the time to try and help me with this.

                                                 

                                                Would you mind noting the graphics card and driver you were using in your Mac when you tested.

                                                 

                                                Much appreciated.

                                                • 21. Re: Mac Conversion for CS5 Nightmare
                                                  Todd_Kopriva Level 8

                                                  > Would you mind noting the graphics card and driver you were using in your Mac when you tested.

                                                   

                                                  The graphics card should have very little to do with this, since CUDA isn't used to accelerate decoding---which is all that is being exercised by importing a file and playing it back.

                                                   

                                                  (Details on what CUDA accelerates are here for CS5 and here for additions in CS5.5.)

                                                   

                                                  But, FWIW, I get the same playback performance for these assets using either a GeForce 8800 (which doesn't provide the CUDA processing features) or a Quadro 4000.

                                                  • 22. Re: Mac Conversion for CS5 Nightmare
                                                    lightprism Level 1

                                                    Thanks again Todd for the help.

                                                     

                                                    The only thing I would add though about my graphics card or drivers or install of same being screwed up, they could be a road block as they are in the chain for video playback.

                                                     

                                                    I am in the midst of following Kevin's help on the lead for a diagnostic on the machine right now.

                                                     

                                                    Really appreciate the help.

                                                     

                                                    Fairly certain the problem is on my end and not Adobe's.

                                                     

                                                    The fact that a GEForce 8800 without any Cuda runs it without dropping frames tells me something is wrong in my system - that is the card I replaced in this Mac to get the Cuda acceleration.

                                                     

                                                    If the diagnostics doesn't find something wrong, then we have all agreed to try a brand Clean Install of all from scratch thanks to you folk's testing.

                                                    • 23. Re: Mac Conversion for CS5 Nightmare
                                                      lightprism Level 1

                                                       

                                                       

                                                      Well folks - it's time for me to eat some major crow!!!!

                                                       

                                                      Thanks to Todd, Jeremy, and Kevin I have again learned how foolish I can be !!!

                                                       

                                                      When Todd and Jeremy's Macs ran the same files fine with less ram and lesser graphics card, it clearly pointed to my machine or install method.

                                                       

                                                      Running the Apple Hardware Test noted by Kevin I got a memory error.

                                                       

                                                      So I spent the next 2 days off and on pulling the memory and reinstalling pair by pair and still getting memory error. IT guy who sold the memory got a new pair of same memory and tried in his Mac and no errors - good memory right?

                                                       

                                                      WRONG - it was the wrong memory to start with - 667Mhz memory ... my early 2008 3,1 Intel Xeon Quad Core came with the new 800Mhz memory !!!

                                                       

                                                      Put my original 8Gb of 800Mhz ram back in and Premiere CS5.5 plays like a hot knife thru butter.

                                                       

                                                      Loaded 2 stacked picture in picture overlapped XDCAMHD422 nanoFlash files on top of an Artbeats HD MJPEG background onto a matching XDCAMHD422 30p timeline. Added gaussian blur, fast color correction to both XDCAMHD422 clips, a Directional Blur onto the Artbeats background clip, and loaded an h.264 Canon 7D clip onto the same unmatched sequence timeline.

                                                       

                                                      Played at Full res playback with not a dropped frame or audio glitch - played like a hot knife thru butter!

                                                       

                                                      The 8 cores bounced between 15% to 50% (when fast forwarding or fast reversing with J and L key multi-taps)

                                                       

                                                      Couldn't ask for more !!!! CS5.5 was never the problem.

                                                       

                                                      Just stupid me.

                                                       

                                                      Thank you Todd, Jeremy, and Kevin.

                                                       

                                                      I walk away with a red-faced head hung low.

                                                       

                                                      You need a 3rd button for the "Has your question been answered" - The question this bonehead asked should have never been asked!

                                                      Sorry for wasting you everyone's valuable time.

                                                      • 24. Re: Mac Conversion for CS5 Nightmare
                                                        Todd_Kopriva Level 8

                                                        No problem.

                                                         

                                                        This has actually been useful, because it has reinforced something for me: Bad RAM (or wrong RAM) can often be the problem.

                                                        • 25. Re: Mac Conversion for CS5 Nightmare
                                                          Kevin-Monahan Adobe Employee

                                                          Woo-hoo! I suspected it was bad RAM or the wrong RAM. Glad the hardware test confirmed it. Enjoy your new hot-rod Mac Premiere Pro system!