9 Replies Latest reply on May 19, 2011 3:06 PM by AtonMusic

    Do You Plans to develope the CUDA engine into After Effects?

    lazniak.com

      I'm curiously that the Adobe plans to implement CUDA inside of After Effects in near future. It is possible to do this?? or it's needs to change to much like rendering architecture, because it's too linear for CUDA? Maybe Adobe prepares a new soft with new name, but with similar interface but with totally new architecture. Maybe it will works like "V-Ray" (rendering parts of pictures "piece by piece") It's could be usable for multicore rendering like GPU processing, that will be faster to generate one picture and it will use more cores. I think After Effects it's too old software (from '90) to implement CUDA inside.

        • 1. Re: Do You Plans to develope the CUDA engine into After Effects?
          lazniak.com Level 1

          It's the question specially to Adobe developers...

          • 2. Re: Do You Plans to develope the CUDA engine into After Effects?
            Todd_Kopriva Level 8

            This forum is a user-to-user forum, not a place to ask questions to Adobe developers.

             

            If you want to request a feature, you should submit a feature request. Here's more information about how to give feedback about After Effects.

            • 3. Re: Do You Plans to develope the CUDA engine into After Effects?
              AtonMusic Level 2

              Perhaps AE is old.

               

              But it is the most hands-on DEEP app you can, well, get your hands on!

               

              Try alternatives to AE but get ready to embrace frustration !

              • 4. Re: Do You Plans to develope the CUDA engine into After Effects?
                Mylenium Most Valuable Participant

                I think After Effects it's too old software (from '90) to implement CUDA inside.

                 

                Seriously, what has this to do with the age of an app? MAX is old, Maya is old yet they are able to use VRay with CUDA. You have it all wrong. None of this requires any changes in the base architecture of the programs and none of them do use CUDA natively. Even in AE there are already third-party plug-ins that use CUDA (Sapphire, Monsters GT, Turbulence 2D, Kronos etc.) in very much the same way. And you are also falling victim to the misperception that CUDA would magically accelerate everything. It doesn't - not in 3D programs, not in Premiere and not in AE. Even if AE had a CUDA infrastructure at its core, there would be many operations that would not use it, so at that point it becomes a somewhat academic argument to even have it.

                 

                We can agree that AE's renderer is about ripe for a major reinvention, but rewriting it just by substituting CPU code by GPU code would achieve nothing. It's much more important to rework the principles an application runs on, but that is a whole lot more complex than just hacking code and including NVidia's CUDA libraries in the compile. That is even more obvious, as there really is nothing mythical about VRay. Traditionally, raytracing has always been possible to reasonably easy to parallelize due to the mathematical principles. You can dig out 20 year old 3D programs and they will render with multiple threads to gain speed and if they could, they'd just use your graphics card as one more processor. Still, it's a whole different thing from 2D rendering.

                 

                Aside from all this technobabble, the benefits of such a system would very much depend on your workflows. You know, I do a lot of infographics/ datagraphics where al lthe design and expression rigging takes much, much more time than any rendering that is involved. Would I have any gains by using CUDA in these cases? Absolutely not. On the other hand of course there may be huge gains if one uses lots of footage layers with processing heavy effects, but even then there will be limits to the number of effects and layers you can accelerate and again many interactive operations such as masking or linear temporal operations such as tracking and Rotobrush. In the end, this could be a zero-sum game - a whole lot of work and trouble, limited benefits for your daily work

                 

                Mylenium

                • 5. Re: Do You Plans to develope the CUDA engine into After Effects?
                  lazniak.com Level 1

                  In shortly: your arguments said "Yes After effects it's too old for CUDA"

                   

                  CUDA needs more processes to render at the same time. So this "linear" rendering architecture in AFter Effects it's RippedOff. (In my opionion)

                  I know that there are some CUDA Plugs, but Adobe don't implements new standard plugs for CUDA yet. I think they could replace them all to this new engine.

                   

                  I think the multiprocessing in after effects it's "rippedOff", becouse i'ts slower than simple not multiprocessing rendering. To start RAM preview it's needs more time in multiprocessing mode. Real multiprocessing will be able to render one frame using multiple cores, not rendering of some frames at the same time. In my opinion there is a place to make some processes in compositons to make it parallel, but After don't do this...

                  • 6. Re: Do You Plans to develope the CUDA engine into After Effects?
                    Mylenium Most Valuable Participant

                    I think you're still misunderstanding me. I'm not saying AE is "too old" even for radical changes, but it's not that you can slap it on overnight. The repercussions go much further. Not only would each and every function in AE itself need to be adapted and reworked to use CUDA or other acceleration frameworks, but so would every third-party plug-in. Would it be worth the effort for all parties involved? Would users actually pay for such upgraded plug-ins? Would users even be willing to buy a suitable graphics card? If you ask me, too many too specialized prerequisites for a generalized app like AE.

                     

                    And you are grossly simplifying and are mistaken about that multiprocessing thing, too. How many data streams can your PCI bus handle before it chokes? How fast can your storage provide these data streams? How many image buffers can your graphics card manage and process in a single clock cycle and at which resolutions and bit-depths? These alone are critical questions. Additionally, things like particle systems or other stuff that is dependent on a strict sequential processing would not benefit an inch. Even in 3D programs particle and dynamics simulations run single-threaded because of that limitation in most algorithms. So for what it's worth, CUDA is by no means the be all, end all solution you have in mind. It can only provide specific solutions for parts of the workflow, which, as I already mentioned, may not even apply to many users....

                     

                    Mylenium

                    • 7. Re: Do You Plans to develope the CUDA engine into After Effects?
                      AtonMusic Level 2

                      I used to share your opinion on MP and AE... I did a lot of testing the past days and came to the conclusion that I was an idiot.

                       

                      ANYONE, claiming that AE CANT work faster with MP enabled... Simply put... Tra-raaaaaa --- Hasn't bothered to do his homework !

                       

                       

                      On a side note...

                       

                      CUDA is great for some things. But I would sure wish that folks would quit thinking of CUDA as an Egg-Laying, Milk-able, hog !!!!!

                      To those who did not understand that expression... CUDA aint going to just magically FIX everything. And most plugs arent REALLY leveraging CUDA technology anyway.

                      • 8. Re: Do You Plans to develope the CUDA engine into After Effects?
                        Todd_Kopriva Level 8

                        > ANYONE, claiming that AE CANT work faster with MP enabled... Simply put... Tra-raaaaaa --- Hasn't bothered to do his homework !

                         

                        Just curious: Where would you recommend that people do this homework? (I have my opinion, but I want to know what worked for you.)

                        • 9. Re: Do You Plans to develope the CUDA engine into After Effects?
                          AtonMusic Level 2

                          Sure...

                           

                           

                          1) As we say in the audio industry - RTFM..... Read the F+++ Manual...

                           

                          Most of us dont bother and just dive right in... Then we complain on forums only to show the folks there that we haven't read the manual.

                          Diving in is great. And extremely easy with adobe apps. But with an app as deep as AE, one HAS to start reading the manual as soon as he wants to do

                          serious work. Download the PDF and have it open ALL THE TIME while working in AE. That way you can look up stuff as you go and as you encounter problems.

                           

                          2) Adobe Forums

                           

                          This following link is GREAT for MP testing basics : Multi-Processing-Basics

                           

                          3) After having followed BOTH of above.

                           

                          Pull out a pen n paper or open you fav. text app.

                           

                          Then set aside 3 hours and regard those 'lost" hours as future gains

                           

                          Do different scenarios (which you have thought up) then execute them with various settings in AE and take those notes.

                           

                          The differences are HUGE... And they dont always apply to all footage. I.e. You'd wanna use different MP settings when dealing with H264 Footage vs TIFF Sequences etc etc etc ....

                           

                          Taking notes of all that kind of stuff... IN my BOOK !!!!

                           

                          Is ---- H O M E W O R K ----