24 Replies Latest reply on May 26, 2011 11:03 PM by RjL190365

    Desktop Configuration for PPCS5.5

    Jfry332155

      I know people ask this stuff all the time, as someone just did in relation to a laptop and CS4, but for someone non-technical with computer lingo, and after being confused on reading up on this, including the links to discussions on adobe forums, I want to try and simplify it as best as possible so that I can buy a modest man's machine to do what I need to do.

       

      I am purchasing a new desktop(tower only) so that I can edit .mts footage (ACVHD) on PPCS5.  It's a short film, it won't be hours and hours of footage, and I don't do this regularly, so I am looking for a modest man's editing computer that can handle this type of footage well, without lag during scrubbing or endless freezing or abnormally long rendering times, but still purchase something on a modest budget, if at all possible.

       

      From research I've been doing, is it possible to purchase an HP tower with specs such as an HP Pavilion p7qe, with:

      • Windows 7 64 bit
      • Intel(R) Core(TM) i5-2400S quad-core processor [2.5GHz, 6MB cache]
      • 8GB DDR3-1333MHz SDRAM [2 DIMMs]
      • 1TB 7200 rpm SATA 3Gb/s hard drive from 750GB

       

      And then purchase one of the following GPU cards to install into the computer?  Also, are most NVIDIA cards that are compatible with windows, compatible with a majority of pc desktops?

      • GeForce GTX 285 (Windows and Mac OS)
      • GeForce GTX 470 (Windows)
      • GeForce GTX 570 (Windows)
      • GeForce GTX 580 (Windows)
      • Quadro FX 3700M (Windows)
      • Quadro FX 3800 (Windows)
      • Quadro FX 3800M (Windows)
      • Quadro FX 4800 (Windows and Mac OS)
      • Quadro FX 5800 (Windows)
      • Quadro 2000 (Windows)
      • Quadro 2000D  (Windows)
      • Quadro 2000M (Windows)
      • Quadro 3000M (Windows)
      • Quadro 4000 (Windows and Mac OS)
      • Quadro 4000M (Windows)
      • Quadro 5000 (Windows)
      • Quadro 5000M (Windows)
      • Quadro 5010M (Windows)
      • Quadro 6000 (Windows)
      • Quadro CX (Windows)
        • 1. Re: Desktop Configuration for PPCS5.5
          Jfry332155 Level 1

          there also seems to be a lot of debate over NVIDIA cards, and the relevancy of Adobe's tech specs.  It's said that the GTX 285 isn't sold anymore, and is the GTX 460 a proper replacement?  Even though Adobe's site doesn't list it?Or for the GTX 560 Ti which people seem to use with good results?  Is adobe's site just not updated?

           

          Are they all compatible with any desktops?


          • 2. Re: Desktop Configuration for PPCS5.5
            Todd_Kopriva Level 8

            > Is adobe's site just not updated?

             

            The list here is up to date:

            http://www.adobe.com/products/premiere/tech-specs.html

             

            Details regarding GPU/CUDA processing and Premiere Pro are here.

            • 3. Re: Desktop Configuration for PPCS5.5
              Jfry332155 Level 1

              thank you, alright so that answers that question.

               

              I've read a lot on here from people with the same questions about PC specs and its relation to PPCS5 and GPUs.  I don't know anything about getting a cheaper GPU and hacking it, so I would just go with one that fits the requirements.

               

              Is it that simple where I should just get a straight answer if those specs I mentioned for the HP with I5 processor and 8gb ram, and a then buying this GPU, would get me to a good level to edit?  I want the simplest way possible on doing this since I'm not computer saavy in a technical way.

              http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/747320-REG/PNY_Technologies_VCGGTX570XPB_nVIDIA_GeFo rce_GTX_570.html

              • 4. Re: Desktop Configuration for PPCS5.5
                Todd_Kopriva Level 8

                Questions about what computer to build or buy get asked here a lot. That's why there's an FAQ menu at the top of this forum that points to such articles as this one:

                http://forums.adobe.com/thread/598040

                 

                You'll find your answers there.

                • 5. Re: Desktop Configuration for PPCS5.5
                  TyRip

                  Typically the i7-2600(K) is highly recommended over any i5.

                   

                  Also, save your money on the graphics card - the "hack" is adding your card's name to a text file and re-saving it.  This can save you a decent amount of cash if you go for a card like the 550 Ti.

                  • 6. Re: Desktop Configuration for PPCS5.5
                    Jfry332155 Level 1

                    I didn't realize it was that easy, thank you, seems worth it given the price is cut in half.

                     

                    This is a good tutorial with a good link to a site that goes through a lot of it:

                     

                    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KTShqwNwkH0

                     

                    Are there ever issues with graphic cards not working with certain PC set ups, or is it pretty standard for them to run fine if you have at least 8gb of ram and an I7?

                    • 7. Re: Desktop Configuration for PPCS5.5
                      TyRip Level 1

                      As long as the computer (motherboard) has a PCI-X16 slot available (where the graphics card fits in - I think all i7-2600 compatible motherboards do, but I could be wrong) you're fine.  It should be plug and play, then downloading and installing the latest drivers from Nvidia on the web.

                      • 8. Re: Desktop Configuration for PPCS5.5
                        RjL190365 Level 4

                         

                        TyRip wrote:

                         

                        Typically the i7-2600(K) is highly recommended over any i5.

                         

                        I agree there. As I discovered on Harm's and Bill's PPBM5 site, the fastest overclocked i5-2500K is barely faster than a stock-speed i7-2600K. However, there are currently only three Sandy Bridge i5 systems on the list compared to the dozens of i7-2600(K) systems on the same list.

                         

                        In addition, the i5-2400S is not recommended for video editing because it is a gimped CPU to begin with: The regular i5-2400 runs at 3.1GHz stock while the i5-2400S runs at only 2.5GHz stock. And since all of HP's Sandy Bridge desktop systems use the same Pegatron H67 motherboard, expect neither overclocking capability at all whatsoever nor good performance even with an Nvidia CUDA graphics card in GPU-accelerated mode (for example, the two results from H67 motherboard-equipped systems equipped with Nvidia cards showed an abnormally slow timeline rendering performance even in GPU-accelerated mode, with those times exceeding 100 seconds compared to the 10 seconds or less those same GPUs achieved with a P67 motherboard-based system).

                         

                        Also, one should not go overly cheap on the Nvidia CUDA GPU: Below the GTS 450 / GTX 550 Ti level is where CUDA performance in CS5.x starts to go downhill. (The Quadro 2000, which is based on the GeForce GTS 450, is currently the weakest desktop/workstation GPU that's officially supported in CS5.5; however, the GTS 450 itself isn't supported without the software tweak/hack.) Already, in the PPBM5 benchmark, the GT 240 (with 96 CUDA cores and DDR5 RAM) performs noticeably slower than newer, higher-end GPUs such as the GTS 450 in the H.264 Blu-ray encoding and the MPE GPU rendering tests.

                         

                        By the way, I wouldn't buy a GTS 450 if the GTX 550 Ti is available for a little bit more. This is because although both the GTS 450 and the GTX 550 Ti have 192 CUDA cores, the GTS 450 has only a 128-bit memory bus while the GTX 550 Ti has a 192-bit memory bus. The trick to the GTX 550 Ti's 192-bit memory with only 1GB (instead of the expected 768MB or 1.5GB) is the use of mixed-sized, mixed-density memory ICs (in this case, one 512MB chip and two 256MB chips). The GTX 550 Ti is one of the few GPUs that are actually designed to use mixed memory IC densities.

                        • 9. Re: Desktop Configuration for PPCS5.5
                          Jfry332155 Level 1

                          thank you for all that.  I'm going to get a PC with that processor and the GTX 550 ti.

                           

                          Has anyone on here gone through ibuypower or cyberpowerpc?  They seem well reviewed, especially cyberpower, and they can do all the customization for you, including GPU's such as the 550 ti.  Just curious if there are lots of first hand experiences on here who were happy purchasers.

                          • 10. Re: Desktop Configuration for PPCS5.5
                            Jfry332155 Level 1

                            I'm second guessing everything due to cost, and how little I actually edit...after this short film, I won't edit until the next one.

                             

                            I'm now thinking of just using the copy of Premiere Pro CS 4.0.1 that I have, which can handle .mts and export OMF's, it just lags on my 32-bit 3gb ram system.

                             

                            If I purchased a new computer with an Intel(R) Core(TM) i5-2400S quad-core processor or anI ntel(R) Core(TM) i5-2400S quad-core processor

                             

                            with a 2GB DDR3 NVIDIA GeForce GT 420 or a 1GB DDR3 NVIDIA GeForce 405

                             

                            I'd probably be pretty good to do what I need right?  I know CS4 is mainly a 32-bit program, but it works fine on 64-bit too?  If I can just edit without the lag on scrubbing, that's all I really want to assure.

                            • 11. Re: Desktop Configuration for PPCS5.5
                              RjL190365 Level 4

                              The planned build of yours will not be all that much faster than your current editing rig - especially not for the price that you would be payng for it. If anything, the GT 420 and GT 405 are both snails in terms of performance. The editing performance with both of those cards, even in CS4, is actually as slow as or slower than anything with onboard or integrated graphics. CS4 does not do much if any GPU acceleration at all. In other words, that planned build would have been nearly a complete waste of money at the price that you'd be paying for it.

                               

                              And as I mentioned earlier, the i5-2400S is crippled to begin with. If anything, its performance would have been roughly equal to that of some of the old Core 2 Quad systems. And the i5-2400S is actually more expensive to buy than the plain i5-2400 (remember, Intel charges a price premium for significantly slower performing, lower power consumption CPUs).

                              • 12. Re: Desktop Configuration for PPCS5.5
                                Jfry332155 Level 1

                                So to better run Premire Pro CS4, are the main issues the processor and RAM?  So even without a high end GPU, just having at least an I72600K and something like 12GB RAM would assure a better run of CS4?

                                 

                                Or is CS4 just crap and the only way to edit ACVHD footage is to use CS5?

                                 

                                I'm seeking a logical way to edit on CS4, by either upgrading or a new PC purchase, by using the money wisely on what exactly I need.  There has to be a way to run it stress free with some more updated specs than I have, but not going all out on the specs needed for a succesful CS5 run, right?

                                • 13. Re: Desktop Configuration for PPCS5.5
                                  Jfry332155 Level 1

                                  From what I'm coming across it seems like the graphics card isn't much of an issue on CS4 as long as you have a good processor(Intel I72600K) and at least 6GB RAM..I'll get 8GB.

                                   

                                  I just want to make sure that I don't get a graphics card that'll slow it down, as I read some do. Or have they been slowing it down b/c the RAM and processor wouldn't at a good level?

                                   

                                  Will I be safe with a i7002600 or is the K(overclocked) absolutely necessary with a huge difference?

                                  • 14. Re: Desktop Configuration for PPCS5.5
                                    Jfry332155 Level 1

                                    This should be good for PPCS4 right?

                                     

                                    I just want to make sure the graphics card it comes with won't mess it up, and that i72600 is fine instead of i72600(k).

                                     

                                    And HP has a lot with those specs, perhaps a different graphics card, just want to make sure that won't matter as long as it has at least an i7-2600 and 8gb of ram.

                                     

                                    http://www.tigerdirect.com/applications/SearchTools/item-details.asp?EdpNo=57521&CatId=492 8

                                    • 15. Re: Desktop Configuration for PPCS5.5
                                      RjL190365 Level 4

                                      That Gateway PC would have been a decent choice if it weren't for the fact that its included 8GB of RAM fills up all four of the motherboard's DIMM slots. I would have preferred 2 x 4GB instead of 4 x 2GB on that system.

                                       

                                      In addition, the "green" hard drives are never optimal in a video editing system.

                                       

                                      It does, however, have a GT 440, which is essentially an OEM-only DDR5 version of the DDR3-only GT 430. That GT 440 does fall short of the GTS 450 in overall MPE performance - but as included in a pre-built, you can't complain.

                                      • 16. Re: Desktop Configuration for PPCS5.5
                                        Jfry332155 Level 1

                                        That's very helpful thank you.

                                         

                                        I may go with an HP that's got the same specs, but will use less DIMM slots.

                                         

                                        The graphics cards may not be as good though, choice of either 1GB DDR3 NVIDIA GeForce 405  or 1GB DDR3 AMD Radeon HD 6450.

                                         

                                        But for CS4, having the i7-2600 and good amount of RAM, should I be alright for getting the use I need without going crazy over choppy scrubbing?

                                         

                                        Is there a substantial difference for CS4 with the 2600(k) compared to the 2600 for the i7?

                                        • 17. Re: Desktop Configuration for PPCS5.5
                                          TyRip Level 1

                                          While I agree that 4GB x2 is preferred over 2GB x4, that is hardly a deal breaker in my opinion unless you know you want 16GB right off the bat, then you are throwing RAM away (or selling it on eBay, etc.). If you think you are OK with 8GB for now, then go with it, RAM isn't super expensive to upgrade in the future, so while it isn't the perfect scenario, I don't think that is a major issue at all.

                                           

                                          The 2600 offers less freedom in overclocking vs. the 2600K, but if you aren't interested in OCing, then don't worry about it.

                                           

                                          The graphics card in the Gateway with DDR5 memory should be better than the HP option.  I say stick with the Gateway.

                                           

                                          The only bad thing left is the "green" OS drive in the Gateway. May want to swap that, but many people here say the OS drive matters very little when you have media and previews spread over 2 or more additional drives, so I can't really say much about that, I don't really know how much that may affect you.

                                          • 18. Re: Desktop Configuration for PPCS5.5
                                            Jfry332155 Level 1

                                            thank you for clarifying which option would be better.  It's a cost effective alternative to a CS5 set-up for me, and for what I need, a CS4.01 set up like this that doesn't run me huge problems, at least in terms of performance and lagging in scrubbing, it seems from what you said I'll be fine, and have room to expand in the future if I desire.

                                             

                                            I am not to saavy with a lot this, as I am learning, so I was not aware of what "Green" meant in terms of affecting it.  Do you have a link that may provide some kind of dummy explanation if you don't feel like getting into it?

                                             

                                            But if it weren't to affect CS4's operation, then I'm fine just going with the flow and using it.

                                            • 19. Re: Desktop Configuration for PPCS5.5
                                              RjL190365 Level 4

                                              Typically, "Green" hard drives spin at slower spindle speeds (lower RPMs) than performance drives. Often, "Green" hard drives will also spin themselves down when idle for more than a few seconds - and then, these drives take a bit too long to spin themselves back up. Those factors make them less than ideal for an editing system.

                                              • 20. Re: Desktop Configuration for PPCS5.5
                                                Jfry332155 Level 1

                                                It's hard to win with this stuff when having to be selective.  So by not going green, I have to go for a lesser graphics card.  Or I guess just keep searching for a non-green gateway with a good graphics card.

                                                • 21. Re: Desktop Configuration for PPCS5.5
                                                  Jfry332155 Level 1

                                                  These seems good, except for the graphics card, I don't know how that'll hold up with CS4, can't be too bad,

                                                   

                                                  http://www.tigerdirect.com/applications/searchtools/item-details.asp?EdpNo=411715&csid=ITD &body=REVIEWS#tabs

                                                  • 22. Re: Desktop Configuration for PPCS5.5
                                                    TyRip Level 1

                                                    The reviewer on that machine said the power supply was only 300W. That is definitely not recommended when you talk about adding 2 more drives and having the potential to upgrade to CS5.5 (or CS6?) in the future with a CUDA capable graphics card.

                                                     

                                                    It would be a lot easier to swap the operating system hard drive (if you need to) than a power supply.  Then again, if it does OK with 2 more drives, that would be a cheaper option for CS4, and then you would just have to be prepared for a more significant computer upgrade if you want to upgrade your Adobe license.  I just have no idea what effect onboard graphics would have with CS4.

                                                    • 23. Re: Desktop Configuration for PPCS5.5
                                                      Jfry332155 Level 1

                                                      I'm not looking too far into that now, but yeah you're right, getting a low watt supply like that isn't the best idea.

                                                       

                                                      Well I guess I'll get an HP with a i72600 quad core, and 8gb ram, 1.5 tb hard drive, 460W Power Supply(I know to get a graphics card to support CS5 I'd need a 600W, but I'm just worrying about CS4 now).

                                                       

                                                      Is there a significant difference for CS4 between the 2GB DDR3 NVIDIA GeForce GT 420 and the 1.5GB DDR3 NVIDIA GeForce GT 440?

                                                       

                                                      If there isn't, then the 420 will save me money, but if there is, then the 440 isn't too much more.

                                                       

                                                      Hopefully this will settle this so I can finally begin editing happy.  Appreciate all the help so far.

                                                       

                                                       

                                                       


                                                      • 24. Re: Desktop Configuration for PPCS5.5
                                                        RjL190365 Level 4

                                                        There is a significant difference in performance between the GT 420 and the GT 440. In fact, the GT 420 has only 48 CUDA cores versus 96 CUDA cores on the GT 440. Plus, the GT 420 not only uses only DDR3 memory, but also only a 64-bit memory bus (versus 128-bit DDR5 memory on the GT 440). As a result, the performance would be very sluggish out of the GT 420 - to the point that you might as well permanently lock CS5.5's MPE to the software-only mode.

                                                         

                                                        And don't get any system with a GT 405! That GPU is nothing more than a bottom-of-the-line GeForce G 210 (only 16 CUDA cores) with DDR3 memory instead of DDR2 memory. As such, the GT 405 is not a true Fermi GPU at all. And both the GT 405 and the G 210 are so sluggish that you might as well have gone with integrated or onboard graphics. The GT 405 is yet another example of Nvidia re-hashing old-generation GPUs with new model numbers (the GTS 250 is another; in that case, the GTS 250's architecture dates back to the 8800 GT of 2007).

                                                         

                                                        And the GT 440 itself, despite its "newer" technology, is actually a bit slower than the GT 240 DDR5 it replaced (performance-wise).