9 Replies Latest reply: May 30, 2011 7:58 AM by TCarp RSS

    GIS beginner help on why to export to AI

    TCarp Community Member

      I'm generally familiar with AI and have just started learning GIS (ArcMap desktop).  I noticed that I can export maps to AI.

       

      If there's anyone out there that exports GIS maps to AI I could use some insight as to why one would do that.  There are obviously some limits to what ArcMap can do.  Is there a scenario where you want to move from GIS to AI (or for that matter any CS app)?

       

      Just want to help my learning.

       

      Thanks

       

      Tom

        • 1. Re: GIS beginner help on why to export to AI
          Mylenium CommunityMVP
          Is there a scenario where you want to move from GIS to AI (or for that matter any CS app)?

           

          Erm, once you need to print it professionally or enhance it otherwise? Kind of a weird question, if yoiu ask me. GIS programs are all about retaining and visualising the underlying statistics in a form that can be quickly updated, which is not necessarily producing "pretty" maps you'd want to look at as average Joe....

           

          Mylenium

          • 2. Re: GIS beginner help on why to export to AI
            TCarp Community Member

            Thanks

             

            Sounds like your saying there's no scenario you can think of that makes an export to AI a good idea?  If so, I got my answer.

             

            Interesting that ESRI can export to a variety of other formats.

             

            Tom

            • 3. Re: GIS beginner help on why to export to AI
              medicineheads.no Community Member

              Hi

              If you need to make simpler maps or make better color, perhaps for prospectrs or printing, I would say there are several occations you might want to export. But - exports from mapping/cad is usually not easy to work with in Illustrator (or any other vector oriented software) Below is an example of a drawing a client wanted in a brochure. On the left you can see the pdf - on the right is the actual lines in Illustrator. It becomes apparent that surfaces (like the green trees) actually consist of lines with a stroke that touches - you can see traces of it in the pdf as well.

              Bilde 20.png

              I guess the answer to your question is, yes there are times you want to export your map - bur you want someone else to recolor it

              • 4. Re: GIS beginner help on why to export to AI
                TCarp Community Member

                Thank you very much for the post.

                 

                It looks like there a special circumstances that might warrent an export but for most applications GIS will do.  I may fool around with export to PSD to get away from vector, but I'm still not experienced enough with GIS to understand what scenario might warrent moving out of GIS.

                 

                I'm still open to good scenarios where this might be useful, but for now I have plenty of GIS learning to occupy my time.

                 

                Tom

                • 5. Re: GIS beginner help on why to export to AI
                  TCarp Community Member

                  ...which is not necessarily producing "pretty" maps you'd want to look at as average Joe.

                   

                  Although unrelated to the original question I want to make a comment on this quote.

                   

                  The effort we're focused on is to bring high quality maps and related information to, as you call them, the "average Joe".  The Atlas Program, as we call it, appears to be one of the few projects we've found that is focused on communities.  Our "customers" are the residents who will have varying capabilities.  Some might have GIS skills (and apps), others might be able to use something like ArcReader, others will be able to work with PDFs, and some won't have any digital capabilities (who will have access to hard copy).

                   

                  The other comment comes from my info resource mgmt background.  If we equate "pretty" with "informative", I could build an argument that pretty is the objective.  I've seen quite a few examples of very pretty displays that are esthetically appealing without providing any information (to support a decision).  Edward Tufte has made quite a career out of this very topic.

                   

                  At present GIS is not very "accessible" which leaves it in the rhelm of professionals.  Our program intends to at least minimize the amount of work these talented people have to provide while still making the outputs accessible to the "average Joe".  We do this with approaches like "standardizing" the areas (and scale) of maps and then providing a varitey of theme layers.  By preserving the layers in PDF we can give the end user some control over which layers they want to see.  This provides some "re-usability".

                   

                  We also are focused on "transferability" meaning that it is easy (relatively speaking) to provide a map suite (thus the term "Atlas") for one area and then pick another area (i.e. community, neighborhood) without having to go through all the expensive map engineering.

                   

                  The two objectives are to 1) provide opportunities for residents to have meaningful participation in decisions that efffect the future of their communities and 2) enhance access to county (in this case) data thus increasing its value.  The premise is that residents more informed about their communities will make better decisions and be more willing to participate.

                   

                  Just a thought.

                   

                  Tom

                  • 6. Re: GIS beginner help on why to export to AI
                    JETalmage Community Member
                    The effort we're focused on is to bring high quality maps and related information

                     

                    Tom,

                     

                    There's the rub. You (and many others, in many different disciplines) have found a need for a seamless combination of "high quality graphics" and "related information" (i.e.; data).

                     

                    GIS programs typically focus on the data, and have only whatever minimal graphics capability is needed to provide a small handful of map artwork onto which to represent the data. Most programs like Illustrator are entirely focussed on graphics, and are very weak (at best) in supporting changable data-driven content.

                     

                    Maps often need to simply look and print better than the "canned" artwork that is included with the GIS programs when time comes to publish. So it's quite common to need to export maps from mapping software to a vector drawing program in order to re-create, customize, or otherwise improve the map artwork. In most workflows, it's assumed that the the data-driven content is "nailed down," so the export is dissected and the ugly map artwork replaced. But in doing so with an Illustrator-centric workflow, there is no surviving live data-driven connection to the data tables (unless you really complicate the workflow with a bunch of esoteric scripting, etc.)

                     

                    The problem works both ways. A good example is Microsoft MapPoint. This antequated program on the "data side" can import GIS data, or Lat/Long coordinates, or postal codes and plot the info on a map, even with some limited live calculations between the data tables and/or display of additional fields. But the two or three map artwork selections are crude, and downright ugly. There is no provision for importing better-looking or user-customized map artwork. (It's as weak in terms of graphics as are most mainstream Microsoft applications.)

                     

                    This "disconnect" between graphics and data is not limited to GIS applications; it's pandemic. This antequated state of affairs is due to the fact that most programs like Illustrator are...well...antequated. They come from a time when just being able to view and create vector graphics on a personal computer and print them with commercial quality results was something new. That was about three decades ago. Not much has changed in the vector drawing software category. Development has mostly been just re-packaging and layered interfaces on the same old functionality.

                     

                    You might take a look at Canvas, which is another mainstream vector drawing progam in Illustrator's category, but far more sensible than Illustrator in many ways for techish-drawing in general. There is a version available which includes extensions expressly designed for working with GIS. But the assumption here is still that your end deliverable is a static image (or a set of static images) in a mainstream delivery format, like PDF. If "the Atlas Program as we call it" is such a deliverable, Canvas may be just what you're looking for.

                     

                    But if "the Atlas Program" is an actual interactive application you are trying to build, that's a different matter.

                     

                    Our program intends to...do this with approaches like "standardizing" the areas (and scale) of maps and then providing a varitey of theme layers. By preserving the layers in PDF...

                     

                    It sounds like your goal is a PDF-based deliverable. It is conceivable that you could build such a PDF with the level of interactivity you want in an Adobe-centric workflow, given that Acrobat Pro is scriptable via Javascript. You could devise a workflow involving AI for the map artwork, external datafiles for the values, and scripting for importing the data, adding interactivity, and mapping of the datapoints to the map. But I suspect a more streamlined and less esoteric and convoluted workflow would be possible with the combination of Canvas and Acrobat.

                     

                    JET

                    • 7. Re: GIS beginner help on why to export to AI
                      TCarp Community Member

                      JET, as always, I greatly appreciate you taking the time for such a thoughtful answer.

                       

                      Your observation that we are (probably) focused on PDF outputs (in most cases) is pretty much what we've concluded.  For those users that have some GIS skills/software we'll probably make some shaped GIS files (data mart vs. data warehouse) available.  However, we expect most will have PDF capabilities so we'll provide basic tutorials on how to manipulate layers.

                       

                      Atlas is a fairly long program.  The first phase (which we envision to be 3 years) will be to get a good map book available for local community residents to access.  Although we're interested in providing high-quality maps, we're not planning to publish something that will require the kind of cartography that will require capabilities beyond with the GIS application provides.

                       

                      There may be occasions where we want to put out some very high quality map graphics, but, given our focus is bringing the data to residents of communities, the outputs we get from GIS (with some work to make sure they are good quality) and providing maximum flexibility (e.g. layer selection) PDFs will probably be enough for quite some time.

                       

                      Thanks again

                       

                      Tom

                      • 8. Re: GIS beginner help on why to export to AI
                        mark909star

                        If you're new to arcgis id suggest you devote your time to learning that program as theres alot to

                        learn!

                         

                        ArcGIS is quite capable for cartographic output. You want to try working with MapInfo Professional sometime!!

                         

                        So id stick with that for now until you find your creative output being limited.

                         

                        Have you heard of MAPublisher? Its purpose built cartograhy software for Illustrator.

                         

                        Its expensive for what it is but it basically give GIS functionality within illustrator. Good stuff!

                         

                        http://avenza.com/mapublisher

                        • 9. Re: GIS beginner help on why to export to AI
                          TCarp Community Member

                          Your observations and recommendations are very appropriate.  I'm just finishing up my first GIS class (10 Desktop) so my post here was just to probe some of the things not covered yet.  I was certainly not trying to address an issue I was having.  I've found the Adobe forums to be very helpful so turned here to see if there were some reasons for exporting to Adobe apps I might run into later.

                           

                          Thanks also for the references.  Shorter term we'll probably stick with the ESRI products which we'll be able to get for a reasonable price because of our non-profit status.  Right now I get a license as a student (Map, Catalog, Scene, Globe) and were getting assistance from other students (who also have license).

                           

                          And your comment about there being a lot to learn is an understatement. Although retired, my career was in info technology management and what strikes me is how comprehensive GIS is.  As examples, the massive amount of data creates a hugh data management challenge while the need to provide "information" (for decision making) makes the cartography equally challenging.

                           

                          I'm getting off the purpose of the forum so, again, thanks for taking the time to post.

                           

                          Tom