1 2 Previous Next 60 Replies Latest reply on Jun 3, 2011 10:21 AM by able123

    2 questions about using Premiere Elements 8?

    Nohjekim Level 1

      Hi

       

      My questions stem from the same issue.

       

      I'm importing a 1200 by 900 .avi file that was created in Poser into PE in several pieces.

      The reason is that, I'm doing an effect where I have a ghostly figure appear in a grave yard behind my character Lucy.

       

      I then import it back into Poser as a background and place Lucy and other props in front of it.

      There's no option in Poser to crop it or any thing like that. It's 1200 by 900, that's it.

       

      It works great except when I export it from PE at 1200 by 900 it does not fill the frame, as it did before I imported it to start with.

      That's problem number 1.  It is not apparent in the preview window that it is not filling the frame.

      It only looks that way after it's exported.

       

      I can make it fill the frame by dragging the image bigger in PE so that it does fill the frame when I export it.

       

      But it will not let me group them and do the 3 pieces as a unit.

      That makes it very difficult to make then match up exactly.

       

      So my questions are...

       

      Is there a way to make PE import the AVI file so that it's exactly the size that it was to start with.

      I don't know why it puts a black boarder around the image in PE.

       

      Failing that, it there a way to group resize the clips once they are in PE.

       

      If I could find a way to do it by percentage, I could probable figure out how much it will always need to change them back to full frame.

       

      Thanks in advance...

       

      Mike

        • 1. Re: 2 questions about using Premiere Elements 8?
          the_wine_snob Level 9

          Mike,

           

          Sounds like a neat Project.

           

          What Project Preset did you choose in PrE at New Project? This is likely the root cause of the problem.

           

          Unfortunately, PrE does not allow one to choose custom Frame Sizes, like PrPro does with its Desktop Project Preset, that allows most attributes to be adjusted, as is needed.

           

          One possible workaround (have never done it, so cannot say that it WILL work), would be to choose a Project Preset that is 1920 x 1080, but matches your Poser footage in all other aspects. Then, Import your AVI's into that, noting that you MUST turn OFF Default Scale to Frame (or similar syntax). Your AVI's will be smaller than the Project's Frame Size, but should be centered in the Frame. Edit, as is needed, and then Export to a format/CODEC that allows one to "crop" in output. Not all can, and none of the DV/DVC formats support that. The trick here might be to find the right format/CODEC, that Poser will then Import.

           

          If that works, please report. If it does not, also please report.

           

          PrPro would make the whole thing much easier, BUT it is quite a bit more expensive, than PrE, which you already own and have installed, plus you know how to use it, and PrPro has a different GUI.

           

          Good luck, and hope someone else has a better option for you,

           

          Hunt

          1 person found this helpful
          • 2. Re: 2 questions about using Premiere Elements 8?
            Steve Grisetti Adobe Community Professional

            Also, don't forget to go to Edit/Preferences and uncheck the Scale to Frame Size option before you add any video or stills to your project.

             

            Scale to Frame Size artificially resizes your clips so that they fit within a frame, often undermining animation and special effects work.

             

            But, again, you must do this BEFORE you add your video or stills. The preference only affects media you add after you make the change.

            • 3. Re: 2 questions about using Premiere Elements 8?
              Nohjekim Level 1

              Hi

               

              Thanks I'll check out the scale to frame size thing.

              I'm not sure I've ever looked at that setting so I have no Idea what it is set to.

               

              I have figured out that it is importing the files that cause the problem, not he output.

              If I rescale the image in the preview window then it will output full frame.

               

              The fact that I'm doing the transition over a four second period helps hide any difference in the exact frame size any way.

               

              This makes the ghost figure slowly appear in the scene.

               

              I have found that I can match them up, by clicking back and forth and dragging them until they don't show any sudden change when I switch.

               

              But it would be nice to just import them and have them match.

               

              Thanks again for the help.

               

              Mike

              • 4. Re: 2 questions about using Premiere Elements 8?
                the_wine_snob Level 9

                Mike,

                 

                I'll check out the scale to frame size thing. I'm not sure I've ever looked at that setting so I have no Idea what it is set to.

                Under normal operations, this setting is meaningless, as the Source Files will match the Project Preset's Frame Size, if done properly. Then, there would be no Scaling done. It is only when one uses an Asset that does NOT match, that it comes into play, or if turned OFF, does NOT come into play. Depending on what the user has, and what they want to do, it can be a little time-saver, or can be a little curse.

                 

                I have figured out that it is importing the files that cause the problem, not he output. If I rescale the image in the preview window then it will output full frame.

                You should be able to Import your Source Files, and use them in the Timeline, even if the sizes do not match the Project Preset's Frame Size. This would be like doing a PiP (Picture in Picture), where a video, or still is smaller than the Frame Size. To keep from getting the full Frame, with the black around, one is limited in output options, but there are several, that allow one to crop on Export/Share.

                 

                Good luck, and when done, please post a link for us to see. Thanks.

                 

                Hunt

                1 person found this helpful
                • 5. Re: 2 questions about using Premiere Elements 8?
                  Nohjekim Level 1


                   

                  Hi again

                   

                   

                   

                  Well I finally understand what it happening a little better.

                   

                  While I'm working at 1200 by 900 in Poser and that's what I am outputting from Première, it imports the video at 720 by 480.

                   

                   

                  As you pointed out, there doesn't seem to be anyway to change that setting since I'm not working in a wide screen format

                  720 by 480 seems to be the only option.

                  .

                  I would like to work at 1200 by 900; I understand now why I see a drop in quality from my original input to the final master video even though the size is the same.

                   

                  Maybe I could change my output in Poser to a size that would match up with what PE will import in a wide screen format, at a higher resolution and just not fill the screen width, then change it later when I output it, that would allow me to import high quality video for the editing at least.

                   

                  I'll have to experiment with it I guess or just do it the way I have been, resizing the image size after I import it.

                  It would make things a lot easier if I could import the video at the same size I export it.

                   

                  By the way when I turned off the "Scale to Frame Size" it just imported my 1200 by 900 frames into a 720 by 480 window so the whole image wasn't visible.

                  In the end I save all the videos at 720 by 480 and at 1200 by 900, the ones that are Email or use on the web have to be small anyway.

                   

                  Thanks again for the help.

                   

                  Mike

                  • 6. Re: 2 questions about using Premiere Elements 8?
                    Nohjekim Level 1

                    Here is a link to my first and shortest, Lucy video.

                     

                    http://s1238.photobucket.com/albums/ff491/nohjekim/?action=view&current=LucyStoryaboutGran dfather.mp4

                     

                    The one I'm doing now it my 7th, I'll post a link when I get it done.

                     

                    Mike

                    • 7. Re: 2 questions about using Premiere Elements 8?
                      Nohjekim Level 1

                      Hi again

                       

                      I see that I have an option to import video at 1440 by 1080.

                      I'm going to try that, it's a little hard working in Poser that big but we'll see if that works.

                      If it does maybe I can just enlarge it at the end when I get done and export it.

                       

                      Mike

                      • 8. Re: 2 questions about using Premiere Elements 8?
                        Nohjekim Level 1

                        Hi again

                         

                        Ok, I tried importing the video at 1440 by 1080 into a same size format in Premiere, and then exporting it at both 1440 by 1080 and 1200 by 900.

                         

                        Either way it still comes out with a black border when played back.

                         

                        This seems to be some function of it being an .AVI file.

                         

                        If I output it as a .WMF file it fits the screen.

                         

                        Unfortunately Poser will only except .AVI files to I guess I'm back where I started.

                        I'll stick with importing it into a 720 window and dragging it larger there, and then exporting it as 1200 by 900 and importing it back into Poser as the background video.

                         

                        Once the job is complete there isn't a problem because I'm no longer forced to export it as an .avi file.

                        I can export as a .WMV file for the final product and it comes out fine without having to resize it again.

                        Thanks again for the help...

                         

                        Mike

                         

                        • 9. Re: 2 questions about using Premiere Elements 8?
                          the_wine_snob Level 9

                          Mike,

                           

                          Can you send me a short test AVI from Poser in your 1200 x 900 Frame Size? I'd like to test something, that might, or might not prove helpful.

                           

                          You can attach the file to an e-mail, and send it to info AT huntphoto DOT com, obviously changing the POP address to reflect the @ and the . without the spaces. In the Subject Line, please put "Adobe Premiere Elements," so that MailWasher does not shuffle it off to the trash.

                           

                          If my theory works, I will share all the steps. Fingers X'ed that it does work, as I'd like to see you complete your series. BTW - nice Poser work, and a sharp sense of humor too.

                           

                          Thanks,

                           

                          Hunt

                          • 10. Re: 2 questions about using Premiere Elements 8?
                            Nohjekim Level 1

                            Hi Bill

                             

                            Here’s the final update.

                             

                            I finally decided to output the video from Poser at 1440 by 1080 so that I don’t have to reduce it down to 720 by 480 and then make it larger again. 

                             

                            I discovered something I didn’t know about Poser.

                             

                            If I place a 1440 by 1080 picture in the background, (in this case a still image of the church) and allow it to format the window to fit, I can drag the window smaller to work on it so that it isn’t always covering all the buttons etc.  The background in the preview window scales the background to fit.

                             

                            Once I’m ready to export it, I can change the window through settings back to its original size and it outputs at full size.

                             

                            PE8 will let me import the video at that size and the video quality looks a lot better.

                             

                            Now:  I made a short 100 frame video in Poser and the exported it at both 1200 by 900 and 1440 by 1080 to make a comparison.

                             

                            What I found was that no matter how I did it, the final output always has a black border around it, and in the case of the 1440 by 1080 the border is much bigger then from the files imported at 1200 by 900.

                             

                            It appears that, (and this doesn’t make any sense) when I output the 1440 video at the smaller size, it changes the size of the video image but not the size of the frame as a whole, so that the 1200 by 900 output appears centered in a 1440 by 1080 frame?

                             

                            Anyway what I finally did was, stick a Sticky Note on my monitor lined up with the edge of the preview window in PE8.

                             

                            I then dragged the window larger, put a mark on the sticky note, and output a 100 frame video.

                             

                            It was closer but still too small, so I dragged the window a little bigger and tried again.

                             

                            On about the fourth try it came out the correct size.

                             

                            So now I have my sticky scale that I can stick on the monitor to resize the video and I can also use the mark to make the separate pieces match exactly.

                             

                            This was a lot of work and doesn’t really answer the question of why can’t I import a 1440 by 1080 video and export it at 1200 by 900 and have it fill the frame with out dragging it larger?   The two are perfectly proportional.

                             

                            But for what it’s worth, this will do what I want to do, and I can finish up my video.

                             

                            Thanks again for the help.

                             

                            Mike

                            • 11. Re: 2 questions about using Premiere Elements 8?
                              the_wine_snob Level 9

                              But for what it’s worth, this will do what I want to do, and I can finish up my video.

                               

                              Though quite a bit of work to get to this point, but if you now have it working, maybe that is "as good as it gets."

                               

                              At least using the sticky notes is better than using a permanent marker on your monitor's screen...

                               

                              As for the 1440 x 1080, what was the Project Preset used? What were the PAR's (Pixel Aspect Ratios) of both your 1440 x 1080 Project and your Poser output file? Normally, 1440 x 1080 is referred to as HDV Anamorphic (or sometimes HD-lite), and has a PAR of 1.3333, rather than 1.0 (Square Pixels). I wonder if Poser is doing 1440 x 1080, but not Anamorphic, and is using a PAR = 1.0 (Square Pixels)? That could account for issues, especially if one later Exports/Shares as HDV Anamorphic w/ PAR = 1.3333.

                               

                              At some point in the future, we will not longer have to be concerned with PAR, as 1920 x 1080 w/ Square Pixels will replace everything else, but until then, we must juggle with PAR's, even in some flavors of HD, like HDV Anamorphic.

                               

                              Just thinking and wondering here. Good luck and I just saw your e-mail. Will head off to reply.

                               

                              Hunt

                              1 person found this helpful
                              • 12. Re: 2 questions about using Premiere Elements 8?
                                the_wine_snob Level 9

                                Mike,

                                 

                                Though not directly related to your exact problem here, this ARTICLE will give you some background on file formats as "wrappers," and this ARTICLE will give you some background on CODEC's. They might help explain why some of your Poser Export options do not work in PrE.

                                 

                                I also think that your working in 1440 x 1080 will get you much closer in your workflow.

                                 

                                Good luck,

                                 

                                Hunt

                                • 13. Re: 2 questions about using Premiere Elements 8?
                                  Nohjekim Level 1

                                  Hi

                                   

                                  The one thing I would still like to know is...

                                   

                                  When I select one of the options at the create new project screen, i.e.

                                   

                                  HD 1080i 30

                                   

                                  General

                                   

                                   

                                  Editing mode: HDV 1080i

                                   

                                  Timebase: 29.97fps

                                   

                                   

                                   

                                  Video Settings

                                   

                                  Frame size: 1440h 1080v (1.3333)

                                   

                                  Frame rate: 29.97 frames/second

                                   

                                  Pixel Aspect Ratio: HD Anamorphic 1080 (1.333)

                                   

                                  Fields: Upper Field First

                                   

                                   

                                   

                                  Audio Settings

                                   

                                  Sample rate: 48000 samples/second

                                   

                                  Should I get a preview window that matches this format?

                                  Or is it normal to get a wide screen window with the video centered in it?

                                   

                                  The video matches the height but has a black area on either side of it.

                                  It would be nice if the preview window was the same aspect as the selected format.

                                   

                                  Here's a shot of my screen...

                                   

                                  http://i1238.photobucket.com/albums/ff491/nohjekim/PE8Capture.jpg

                                   

                                  Mike

                                  • 14. Re: 2 questions about using Premiere Elements 8?
                                    the_wine_snob Level 9

                                    Mike,

                                     

                                    In the Project Panel, if you Rt-click on one of the Clips, and choose Interpret Footage, what is being shown as the PAR (about half way down the Intrepret Footage dialog box). Your screen-cap appears to be PAR = 1.0 (Square Pixels) in a PAR = 1.3333 Project. If so, then in Interpret Footage, change the PAR to 1.3333. If it's showing that PAR, then something else is wrong. Note: to change PAR, you have to click the radio button to allow you to change it.

                                     

                                    Please let us know how Interpret Footage is working for you.

                                     

                                    Good luck,

                                     

                                    Hunt

                                    1 person found this helpful
                                    • 15. Re: 2 questions about using Premiere Elements 8?
                                      Level 4

                                      Bill,

                                      I have maya 2009 and dont know if poser and maya are similar. I could open maya and try to duplicate stuff if I knew the poser camera settings etc...and try an export that keeps the right par etc ( as an avi or whatever )...am willing to try to help...

                                       

                                      But so far from what I get here ...is that somehow the par and maybe the actual avi ( dimensions, etc ) is not matching up maybe ??  what I did... I went to the arri ( arriflex cameras etc ) site and got the frame for hdtv and selected it, turned it transparent, put the screen capture image into it and transformed it to fit the frame...  the results follow...

                                       

                                      I dont have elements ( only PPr cs3 ) and am using photoshop 7 ( all square pixels )...  if the last frame down looks closer to what the poster is wanting, than the stuff isnt matching cause I shrunk it down ( top and bottom squeezed ) to fit the frame...

                                       

                                      arri-hdtv-16-9.jpg

                                       

                                      16-9-frame-only.jpg

                                       

                                      PE8Capture.jpg

                                       

                                      poserimage3 copy.jpg

                                       

                                      frame-capture-transformed-to-arri-16-9-frame copy.jpg

                                       

                                       

                                      • 16. Re: 2 questions about using Premiere Elements 8?
                                        Level 4

                                        maya render settings

                                         

                                        maya-render-settings1.jpg

                                         

                                        maya-render-settings-2.jpg

                                         

                                        maya-avi-options3.jpg

                                         

                                        note that the hd1080 is 1920x1080, not 1440 or whatever...this ends up being avi , progressive , square pixels ( 1.0 ) etc

                                         

                                        the "look" of the image from poster screenshot looks like maybe with custom settings or whatever.. a 1920x1080 progressive, square par project might be the answer ?? what does gspot say about the AVI ??

                                         

                                         

                                        • 17. Re: 2 questions about using Premiere Elements 8?
                                          the_wine_snob Level 9

                                          Rod,

                                           

                                          Thank you for dropping by.

                                           

                                          Your last image of Lucy looks more like what I would expect. In Mike's example, her glasses look too oval - squeezed. For other of her features, one would have to know the model used. In Poser (at least my older version), one could "add weight," or "put the model on a diet," sort of. Only Mike can tell us if Lucy looks correct, in the Export.

                                           

                                          Appreciated,

                                           

                                          Hunt

                                          • 18. Re: 2 questions about using Premiere Elements 8?
                                            the_wine_snob Level 9

                                            Mike,

                                             

                                            Here is your screen-cap of Lucy in the Program Monitor, with some annotations:

                                             

                                            Lucy_Original_01.png

                                            Here is Lucy, with the PAR correction to 1.3333. It matches the Frame Size almost perfectly, as shown:

                                             

                                            Lucy_Adjusted_01.png

                                             

                                            Now, I am working from the JPEG of your screen-cap, and doing this PAR adjustment in PS, but I think that when adjusted with Interpret Footage in PrE, the results will be almost identical for the Video.

                                             

                                            With PAR's, it is often a case that PrE (and PrPro) can miss the flag to determine the PAR. This data is stored in the header of the AV file, and depending on the program that writes it, might be picked up correctly, or perhaps not. That is the main purpose of Interpret Footage - forcing PrE to see footage, as it should be.

                                             

                                            Hope that this helps, and good luck. RoboDog2 got the ball rolling with the Arri Gate/Frame, and his test.

                                             

                                            Hunt

                                            • 19. Re: 2 questions about using Premiere Elements 8?
                                              Level 4

                                              Bill

                                               

                                              LOL...yours looks TOO FAT for some reason....hehe... I kept trying to go back and forth from your 1.33 to mine to see difference ...maybe I need some beers first...

                                               

                                              Anyway, it seems that part of the problem is the stupid par and or dimensions ...  to make things more fun... I googled for a real long time and was unable to find info on avi export dimesion options...though I watched a tutorial ( at poser site ) about exporting a que (sp?) and saw that theres a box to input dimensions for the avi export...but dont know the limits...

                                              At the top of this is " I can only export 1200x900 " or something like that....so just for the fun of it ( again using phoshop 7 with square pixels...) I made a 1200x900 frame, stuck a 720x480 frame into it and scaled the smaller frame to the larger one....showing the difference in relative aspect ratio....  haha...so if this doesnt confuse everyone I dont know what will...

                                               

                                              Untitled-1.jpg

                                               

                                              Untitled-2 copy.jpg

                                               

                                               

                                               

                                              ps..Bill, if you take your 1.33 sample and use the inverse of the above "leftover" frame space...by scaling your sample down so you have a little bit of black on both the right and left side... I think that might be the correct "dimension"...

                                               

                                              hehe...OK...its beer thirty...see u later

                                              • 20. Re: 2 questions about using Premiere Elements 8?
                                                Level 4

                                                one more note:  once we figure out what this thing is to begin with, it needs to go back into poser as background for more 3d modeling...

                                                so my feeling is that it needs to be corrected and dealt with from poser export onward...or things are maybe gonna get weird going back into poser later...  but at least we have begun to determine some basics.. I think it would be nice to see mediainfo or gspot screenshot of the export...

                                                 

                                                and info on export options for avi files from poser (I have no clue )

                                                 

                                                 

                                                 

                                                 

                                                ps maybe its not fitting as hd anamorphic and try 1.2 instead ??

                                                • 21. Re: 2 questions about using Premiere Elements 8?
                                                  the_wine_snob Level 9

                                                  once we figure out what this thing is to begin with, it needs to go back into poser as background for more 3d modeling...

                                                  so my feeling is that it needs to be corrected and dealt with from poser export onward...or things are maybe gonna get weird going back into poser later...  but at least we have begun to determine some basics.. I think it would be nice to see mediainfo or gspot screenshot of the export...

                                                   

                                                  You are correct that the workflow must be 2-way: Poser to PrE to Poser. I had thought of offering to help Mike with PrPro and a Desktop Project for the 1200 x 900 footage, but that would not help him with the "back to Poser" aspect.

                                                   

                                                  That's why I'm trying to help him find both an Export setting in Poser, and then a Project Preset in PrE, to allow for his Export>Import>Export>Import needs, without any cropping, or black bars around his footage anywhere.

                                                   

                                                  Knowing the exact PAR of the 1440 x 1080 Export from Poser, and then what PrE sees as the PAR, when the file is Imported, will possibly clear things up a bit.

                                                   

                                                  Now, I agree that Lucy gained a few pounds, but look at her glasses. Mike should be able to quickly look and tell us whether the proportions for the face and body structure are correct, of if they have been "widened" too much. [With Lucy's quick wit, I do not want to get on her "bad side... " ]

                                                   

                                                  Thanks,

                                                   

                                                  Hunt

                                                  • 22. Re: 2 questions about using Premiere Elements 8?
                                                    Level 4

                                                    Mike said

                                                    ============

                                                    There's no option in Poser to crop it or any thing like that. It's 1200 by 900, that's it.

                                                    ============

                                                     

                                                    so, his export is 1200x900.

                                                     

                                                    You said

                                                    =========

                                                    I had thought of offering to help Mike with PrPro and a Desktop Project  for the 1200 x 900 footage, but that would not help him with the "back  to Poser" aspect.

                                                    ==========

                                                    sure it would. If that's what he exported, everything else is just trying to FIT stuff into the wrong dimensions.

                                                     

                                                    My experience with maya so far ( as I haven't exported for broadcast ) ...is that exports are basically building each "frame" in the animation as square pixels and it's progressive by nature ( like I frames also )... there are other options in maya but its sorta like "added" functionality for delivery to ntsc, pal, etc etc....

                                                     

                                                    If Mike is really exporting avi 1200x900, progressive square pixels ( which is what my maya thing would default to unless I deliberately change my par etc ) then a custom desktop thing at 1200x900 would do the trick... then the export would be the same and go back to poser.

                                                     

                                                     

                                                     

                                                    ps.. one further thought... is that if it was "me" doing this I would export numbered TIF's if poser can do that...and use those imported as a numbered sequence thing in elements ( if elements allows ).  Then the only real worry re: compression loss etc is the export choice to go back to poser... should be fine at that point for a lagarith avi or wmv or whatever at the same dimensions ( dont know if avi / wmv would allow for that weird size dimension export - would have to check )

                                                    • 23. Re: 2 questions about using Premiere Elements 8?
                                                      Level 4

                                                      ==========

                                                      Mike should be able to quickly look and tell us whether the proportions  for the face and body structure are correct, of if they have been  "widened" too much. [With Lucy's quick wit, I do not want to get on her  "bad side... "

                                                      ============

                                                       

                                                      " Robodog , how do I look in this dress ??? "

                                                       

                                                      wow-you-look-marvelous1.jpg

                                                       

                                                      " Wow, you look GREAT, honey ----  how about a nice cold beer ? "

                                                       

                                                       

                                                      • 24. Re: 2 questions about using Premiere Elements 8?
                                                        Level 4

                                                        ball game on tv as I play on computer with beers.....

                                                         

                                                        opened maya "solar system" ( sans snake ) project....exported as avi, square pixels, 1200 x 900, 29.97 fps, lagarith codec...

                                                         

                                                        got avi and tested how it looks on desktop...was OK in classic media player

                                                         

                                                        made new project ( cs3 and hope its similar to elements  or someone can help with that )

                                                         

                                                        new project , custom desktop screenshots of everything below..including gspot of avi export from maya....

                                                         

                                                        hope this helps

                                                         

                                                        solar-sys-gspot.jpg

                                                         

                                                        solar-custom1.jpg

                                                         

                                                        solar-custom2.jpg

                                                         

                                                        solar-custom3.jpg

                                                         

                                                         

                                                        • 25. Re: 2 questions about using Premiere Elements 8?
                                                          the_wine_snob Level 9

                                                          Rod,

                                                           

                                                          The one big limitation of PrElements here, is the total lack of the Desktop/Custom Preset. One is limited to a somewhat limited set of Presets, and that was why we had worked up to the 1440 x 1080 HDV Anamorphic, with a PAR of 1.3333. That was allowed and available. Same for 1920 x 1080 w/ Square Pixels, but I am not sure that Poser will go up to that Export setting.

                                                           

                                                          I was going to work up to the Lagarith, once we got the PAR and Frame Size coordinated, but just do not know if Poser can work with that, even if installed. For intermediate files, it's my go-to, and PrE (plus PrPro and AE) have no issues. However, the question will be, can Poser Import that for Mike's final work? We will cross that bridge, when we get to it. If not, then we might be stuck with another CODEC. Luckily, the Poser material, coming out of PrE, will not be THAT long a Duration.

                                                           

                                                          Just trying to work through this, one step at a time.

                                                           

                                                          Thanks,

                                                           

                                                          Hunt

                                                          • 26. Re: 2 questions about using Premiere Elements 8?
                                                            Nohjekim Level 1

                                                            Hi Everyone

                                                             

                                                            Thanks for the input.

                                                            I haven't had time to set down and go through all of this but there are a few things I can clear up.

                                                             

                                                            When I said 1200 by 900 that's it, I really meant that what ever size you import, as a background, is what you get.

                                                            If the background is 1440 by 1080 and has a black border around it, there is no way to crop it out.

                                                             

                                                            Poser will import any size background that you ask it to and you can export in any size no limitations.

                                                            Even odd sizes, like 1200 by 100.

                                                             

                                                            So what's necessary it to match a size that PE8 can import.

                                                            I was trying to work in 1200 by 900 which is proportional to my Dell 24" Ultra Sharp monitor which has a native resolution of 1920 by 1200.

                                                             

                                                            I don't want to workthat big because the file sizes are astronomical even at 1200 by 900 and this is a comfortable size to work in Poser.

                                                             

                                                            The main part of my videos without the lead in, (the part before Lucy starts talking and is done separately) run between 3,000 and 4,000 frames.

                                                            This is all done in one piece to make the lip syncing easier.

                                                             

                                                            I export them in pieces of between 700 and 1,000 frames and then reassemble them along with the lead in, titles etc., in PE8.

                                                            The pieces run around 1 gigabyte each.

                                                             

                                                            I didn't realize until recently that I was reducing the video to 720 by 480 and then making it larger again when I exported it.

                                                             

                                                            Now I'm going to stick with 1440 by 1080 in both Poser and PE8.

                                                             

                                                            However I still have to drag the image in the preview window larger then the preview window to make it export at the same size and fill the screen.

                                                            I guess what I don'tget is why the preview window doesn't show what I get when I export it.

                                                             

                                                            Since I started importing the video at 1440 by 1080 the quality of the exported file is much better.

                                                             

                                                            I can make this work by using my sticky note and dragging the window to the right size.

                                                             

                                                            Since my last post I tried exporting the file from poser using every codec I have available.

                                                             

                                                            The Intel codec creates a grainy image with a lot of vertical lines.

                                                             

                                                            Several don't work atall.

                                                             

                                                            The ones that work are…

                                                             

                                                            XVID Mpeg

                                                             

                                                            Cinpak

                                                             

                                                            Microsoft Video 1 (which is what I usually use).

                                                             

                                                            And Full Frame uncompressed.

                                                             

                                                            I exported a clip from Poser at 1440 by 1080 in each of the ones that work.

                                                            They all imported into PE 8 with no problem and looked identical, though some of then took much longer to process.

                                                             

                                                            Only the Microsoft one has any options in Poser as to how it exports.

                                                            It only lets you make two selections as to the quality of the compression.

                                                            So I have no options to change the way the avi file is created as far as pixel settings and things ofthat sort.

                                                             

                                                            I do have AnyVideoconverter and Avi Converter that might let me change the settings for the files.

                                                             

                                                            However when I import and export Lucy she remains correctly proportioned.

                                                            I haven't had anyproblems with the image getting distorted, just the fact that it never exports full frame. 

                                                            Unless I drag each part of the video larger in PE8 it always has a black border around the outside.

                                                            The border is wider when I use 1440 then it is when I use 720, which doesn't make any sence since it's the same size and the imported file.

                                                             

                                                            Tomorrow, I will open PE8 in another widow and go through all the information that was posted today, so Ican switch back and forth and check the settings etc.

                                                             

                                                            I'm having a blast creating these videos, it's something totally new for me, but uses the skills that I have developed over my years in the advertising and graphic design business. For many years I worked with a film production company, Car and Track Productions that made films and TV shows about auto racing. I designed titles and did still photography for them.  But I never had anything to do with the film editing etc.

                                                             

                                                            I did get to meet a lot of famous car people including Paul Newman, and Marion Andratti a few times.

                                                             

                                                            Thanks again for all the input.

                                                             

                                                            Mike

                                                            • 27. Re: 2 questions about using Premiere Elements 8?
                                                              the_wine_snob Level 9

                                                              Mike,

                                                               

                                                              In the process of attempting to research the newer Poser, it looks like there have been major improvements. The syncing option looks neat. If nothing else, I think that I will upgrade my older Poser, just to play with.

                                                               

                                                              Good luck, and hope that Interpret Footage gets you the ideal Clip to work with. Also, run one of the Poser Clips in G-Spot, and post the screen cap from that program.

                                                               

                                                              Good luck,

                                                               

                                                              Hunt

                                                              • 28. Re: 2 questions about using Premiere Elements 8?
                                                                Level 4

                                                                I think I'm beginning to understand the problem...

                                                                ============

                                                                The border is wider when I use 1440 then it is when I use 720, which  doesn't make any sence since it's the same size and the imported file.

                                                                ===========

                                                                its because it is a "proportional" problem rather than the exact dimension.. the 720x480 ( 4:3 ) is closer to your proportion..

                                                                 

                                                                Anyway, I would also think a gspot screenshot would help ( especially to see the par and stuff ) and Bill will I think be able to suggest an export from poser " size" that will fit a preset in prE...without any scaling necessary..

                                                                 

                                                                and without making lucy look like she needs to join weight watchers

                                                                 

                                                                 

                                                                • 29. Re: 2 questions about using Premiere Elements 8?
                                                                  Nohjekim Level 1

                                                                  Hi Guys

                                                                   

                                                                  Here is the info on the files going in and comming out of Premiere and Poser.

                                                                  Also a screen shot of how the files look going in and comming out.

                                                                   

                                                                  This is the GSpot information for the file comming out of Poser.

                                                                  http://i1238.photobucket.com/albums/ff491/nohjekim/GSpotfilefromPE8at14401080.jpg

                                                                   

                                                                  This is the GSpot info for the file comming out of PE8.

                                                                  http://i1238.photobucket.com/albums/ff491/nohjekim/GSpotfilefromPoserat14401080.jpg

                                                                   

                                                                  It won't open the complere image for the screen shots here for some reason just part of them so here are the links to them.

                                                                  Both of these were cliped from Media Player set at 100% and mesure 1440 by 1080 when I opened them in Photoshop.

                                                                   

                                                                  This is the way that it looks going into PE8

                                                                   

                                                                  http://i1238.photobucket.com/albums/ff491/nohjekim/AVIFilefromPoser.jpg

                                                                   

                                                                  This is the way that it looks comming out of PE8, the black border mesures 1440 by 1080 on the outside.

                                                                   

                                                                  http://i1238.photobucket.com/albums/ff491/nohjekim/AVIFilefromPE8.jpg

                                                                   

                                                                  As you can see PE8 did output a 1440 by 1080 file, the video image just doesn't fill it.

                                                                   

                                                                  I can see that Lucy did gain a little weight in the bottom one.

                                                                   

                                                                  Here is a link to the complete clip, in a low reselution.

                                                                   

                                                                  http://s1238.photobucket.com/albums/ff491/nohjekim/?action=view&current=LucyWalkstoCamera7 20by540.mp4

                                                                   

                                                                  Mike

                                                                   

                                                                  Message was edited by: Nohjekim

                                                                  • 30. Re: 2 questions about using Premiere Elements 8?
                                                                    Level 4

                                                                    Hiya Mike, good morning !

                                                                     

                                                                    rats... I cant see the entire 2nd gspot screenshot...(cant see right side )...can you post that again?? out of prE8

                                                                    • 31. Re: 2 questions about using Premiere Elements 8?
                                                                      Level 4

                                                                      Mike, and Bill....

                                                                       

                                                                      Some info below is going to be just confusing and some might be helpful as "references" etc...

                                                                      It is the result of googling my head off and trying to find info about what poser can export ( codecs etc ) and trying to find info on the CRAM codec...

                                                                       

                                                                      There's a cool link to fourcc.org which has tons of info about a few topics you might like, Mike...

                                                                       

                                                                      IMO loading codec packs is a bad idea ( including divX ) as a general rule...they do weird things that are not good. Only load codecs you KNOW are OK for certain for editing.. and there aren't that many really that fall into that category...

                                                                       

                                                                      But that's just an aside..an opinion...

                                                                       

                                                                      It is probably worth mentioning also that video formats ( dimensions and specs and codec usage ) is pretty complex but in general most are based historically on broadcast TV and film projection... that would be like ntsc and pal and cine...

                                                                       

                                                                      although the web and computer monitors now allow way more formats ( dimensions especially ), editing software will generally ONLY like certain specs for editing... based 'mostly' on those historical specs...

                                                                       

                                                                      So, in short, exporting from poser ( or anything else ) should match what the editing software is going to be happy with ...which means you shouldn't choose any size just cause its comfortable to work with or something ( like 1200x900 ).

                                                                       

                                                                      Now that you've decided on 1440x1080 ( which is 4:3 ... meaning 4 squares across and 3 squares down ), Mike, you've chosen one of the dimensions that editing software likes.  If you want to go to a 16:9 ratio ( wider ) you can do that by changing your dimension...but be aware..the bigger you go the file sizes will get WAY bigger ( byte count ) and will be way more of a strain on your computer when trying to edit the material....

                                                                       

                                                                      If you are delivering to the web for the most part .... at the size of your sample videos ( which look good by the way ! - Nice going !) you don't need anything as big as HD 16:9.. such as 1920x1080....or not even probably 1440x1080, but that's up to you...and the power of your computer etc etc.

                                                                       

                                                                      Soooo, your export from poser should match the preset you have in PrE that you want to use, and apparently that is now 1440x1080.

                                                                       

                                                                      In Maya ( might have similar in poser ...so this is just a reference )... my choice under AVI looks like this

                                                                       

                                                                      compression.jpg

                                                                      Once I choose AVI I can then choose the compression codec...( pop up you see )... lagarith is a lossless codec ( compresses and decompresses but without dumping ( losing ) any pixel information ).  It's OK for editing software.  Other codecs can compress to way smaller files sizes for VIEWING ONLY... like mpeg4 stuff and should be avoided for editing...  The other choice that is good for no loss is to choose NO CODEC ( none )...which is full frames uncompressed in my program pop up.  That will make big files ( byte counts but be really good quality ).

                                                                       

                                                                      Your gspot info give CRAM as your avi codec now....for your poser export and also your PrE export.  That is NOT such a great codec to use IMO... though that is only based on what my research in google told me as I know NOTHING about the specifics of that codec and couldn't find any tech data on it...  It's old and there's some info pasted below that gives some info re: that codec.

                                                                       

                                                                      You gspot says you now have square pixels at 1440x1080 ( which looks like 4:3 ( hence dar ( display aspect ratio) = 4:3 ) . A preset in PrE hopefully allows for 1440x1080 , progressive (no fields), square pixels, for a new project to put your poser export into.  However, IMO I would export another AVI from poser with a different codec ( lagarith or none ) and stick with one of those instead of CRAM.  CRAM, in fact, could be causing some of your problem re: fitting stuff ...as it may be looking for multiples of 2,4,8 whatever...with re: to sizes it likes... who knows... I couldnt find data on the thing as it is pretty old.

                                                                       

                                                                      Bill knows way more than me about whats going on re: all this stuff and will probably have good advice for you soon...using what you posted ....

                                                                       

                                                                      If any of the stuff below helps in a general way it was worth collecting....  and here it is

                                                                      =============== google search stuff ===========

                                                                       

                                                                      CRAM  is fourcc codec ( from pack ? ) for microsoft video 1

                                                                       

                                                                      thread at grass valley about cram
                                                                      http://ediusforum.grassvalley.com/forum/showthread.php?t=9766

                                                                       

                                                                      codec list and descriptions and tons of other info ( good site )
                                                                      http://www.fourcc.org/codecs.php

                                                                       

                                                                      (fourcc = "four character code" )

                                                                       

                                                                      excerpt from codec list ..paraphrased...
                                                                      cram is supposedly exactly equiv to msvc

                                                                       

                                                                      desription of msvc
                                                                      MSVC     Microsoft Video 1     Microsoft     Original codec shipped with Video For Windows. Deals with 8bpp and 16bpp images. Quality leaves a lot to be desired (IMHO).

                                                                       

                                                                      ==========
                                                                      an excerpt from a message board about poser ==== note that I've seen a lot of people using divX and other codec packs might be getting loaded at random by a lot of people ....which could be scary !

                                                                       

                                                                       

                                                                       

                                                                      --------
                                                                      I totally agree:  as long as you work with the video you should use uncompressed or at the least use a codec that is not lossy. (and I'm at a loss to recommend one - pun intended). If you work with Quicktime as the container, I believe the 'Animation' codec (they call it Compressor, not codec) is not lossy, but I might be wrong. I know that this one does support 32-bit depths, hence also alpha channel. Many codecs or compressors don't carry the alpha channel.

                                                                       

                                                                      I only use DivX (or Xvid or similar) when it's time to publish it to the web or wherever, to make the file small and manageable to send or even just to then load that into another tool for rendering, such as in Carrara when it's an animated texture in a shader. Most typical use is to save a screen capture to AVI for further upload to youtube. Actually, mp4 and wmv are my preferred formats there. But yes, only for final viewing, rarely as the format used for working with it.

                                                                       

                                                                       

                                                                      • 32. Re: 2 questions about using Premiere Elements 8?
                                                                        the_wine_snob Level 9

                                                                        Rod,

                                                                         

                                                                        Thanks for the input.

                                                                         

                                                                        One of the limitations that Mike is facing is the available Presets in PrElements. Unlike PrPro, it has a limited set of those, and there is no Desktop/Custom capability. One must work with what is provided in the program. They cover many "bases," but certainly not all.

                                                                         

                                                                        To compound his issues, Poser has a limited set of Export options, so it's not quite so easy to just choose the PrE Preset, and Export to that. Limitations on both ends.

                                                                         

                                                                        Going back, I had recommended using the 1440 x 1080 HDV Anamorphic Preset, but there is an issue with that - it has a PAR = 1.3333, and it seems that Poser will only Export to a PAR = 1.0, so the difference between 1.0 and 1.3333, causes an additional problem.

                                                                         

                                                                        Mike, you need to be my "eyes" here, as I have an older version of PrE, so my choices ARE more limited, than yours are in PrE 9. One option would be to see if your PrE has a 1440 x 1080 Preset, that is NOT Anamorphic, and offers a PAR = 1.0. Mine does not. If there is NOT a 1440 x 1080 Preset with a PAR of 1.0, then I would do one more test. I would choose the HDV 720P Preset, which will be 1280 x 720 with a PAR = 1.0. Back in Poser, choose an Export to 1280 x 720 with the PAR = 1.0. Test.

                                                                         

                                                                        I agree with Rod, that the Video-1/CRAM CODEC is probably not the ultimate, but have to say that with your test footage, I was able to Import that material into PrPro, back when we were testing whether that would help with your original footage, and it edited fine, though G-Spot reported that I did not have that older CODEC (and an installation of it from MS failed, as my OS was too new - who knew, as I have the old XP-Pro?). If you can get the PrE Preset and the Poser Export to match, we can possibly tweak the CODEC, and test whether Poser can use something like the Lagarith Lossless. Let's save that for the next step, and either Rod, or I, can step you through that. Given the fact that Poser is designed more for stills output, I wonder if it can see other CODEC's, when they are properly installed. Again, we'll look into that, as soon as we get the Preset and Export perfect.

                                                                         

                                                                        I would pour over the PrE Presets, to see if PrE 9 has an HDV Preset for 1440 x 1080 but one WITH a PAR = 1.0, and NOT the Anamorphic PAR = 1.3333. If not you can Export from Poser as 1280 x 720 with what seems to be the defacto PAR = 1.0, Import that into a PrE HDV 720p Project and test.

                                                                         

                                                                        Good luck,

                                                                         

                                                                        Hunt

                                                                         

                                                                        PS - I would install the trial of PrE 9 on my laptop, but I found that it causes issues with my older PrPro CS2 Production Studio, and I have to have that program suite running. I tried PrE 9, but removed it, when PrPro began acting up. Something in PrPro is not comfortable with PrE 9, though I am running PrE 4.0 alongside it. Back when I did the PrE 4.0 installation, I had to do a Repair Install for the entire CS2 Production Studio. With PrE 9, that did not help, and I had to uninstall PrE 9. If I had my new laptop yet, I'd just install PrE 9 alone, and then could see every possible Preset. That is why you need to be my "eyes" here. I also know that Rod is on PrPro CS3, and he does not have PrE 9. I welcome Steve, Neale, John T, or anyone else, to search their PrE 9 Presets, and offer comments on whether there is now an HDV Preset, other than the Anamorphic/PAR = 1.3333, that Mike could use. He needs both a Frame Size that Poser can Export, plus a PAR = 1.0, which is what Poser will produce. TIA for any recs.

                                                                        • 33. Re: 2 questions about using Premiere Elements 8?
                                                                          the_wine_snob Level 9

                                                                          Mike,

                                                                           

                                                                          One thing that I suggest is that you also post to Muvipix.com and to their PrE 8 Community/Forums. If memory serves me, some users there also use Poser, and might have some useful tips.

                                                                           

                                                                          Let us know if anyone there has a perfect workflow for you.

                                                                           

                                                                          Good luck,

                                                                           

                                                                          Hunt

                                                                          • 34. Re: 2 questions about using Premiere Elements 8?
                                                                            Nohjekim Level 1

                                                                            Hi Everyone.

                                                                             

                                                                            I just want to correct one thing.

                                                                            Unless I'm getting this wrong Poser does output and except video at a PAR of 1.333 (4:3)

                                                                             

                                                                            I wasn't aware of this until I downloaded GSpot. It took me a while to figure out what GSpot was.

                                                                            But the GSpot data panel says that the file comming out of Poser is 1.333.

                                                                             

                                                                            I'm posting the panel again, I did a new one just to be sure...

                                                                             

                                                                            http://i1238.photobucket.com/albums/ff491/nohjekim/GSpotdata1440by1080filecreatedinposer.jpg

                                                                             

                                                                            As far as I can see this is almost identical to the file out of PE8.

                                                                             

                                                                            So unless I don't understand this correctly the problem isn't that the pixel aspect ratio is different between the two but the fact that for some reason PE8 doesn't out put the video full frame.     

                                                                             

                                                                            I just had a thought....Ok I opened the frame from PE8 in Photoshop and checked the size of the the image.

                                                                             

                                                                            The total frame size is 1440 by 1080 as expected, the size of the image within the frame is 800 by 600.

                                                                             

                                                                            http://i1238.photobucket.com/albums/ff491/nohjekim/AVIFilefromPE8.jpg

                                                                             

                                                                            Lucy does look a little heavy in this shot.  The thing that I really don't get it that if I drag the image bigger in the preview window it changes the size of the image within the frame.  I thing that a lot of the problem is that the preview window isn't showing what I'm going to get when I export it.

                                                                             

                                                                            If the previes window looked like the picture above I would know just how far to drag the size of the image to make it match the output.

                                                                             

                                                                            On my browser a slider bar appears at the bottom of the post if the whole image doesn't show.

                                                                             

                                                                            Mike

                                                                            • 35. Re: 2 questions about using Premiere Elements 8?
                                                                              Level 4

                                                                              =============

                                                                              Lucy does look a little heavy in this shot.

                                                                              =============

                                                                              dont tell HER that !

                                                                               

                                                                              to be honest, I'm not sure you've SEEN lucy the way she really looks yet !  Just say, " you look wonderful, would you like a cold beer?"

                                                                               

                                                                               

                                                                               

                                                                              more info to come re: solutions... the hampsters that power jive software forums ( bless their furry hides ) are running in the hampster wheels like crazy !

                                                                               

                                                                               

                                                                              • 36. Re: 2 questions about using Premiere Elements 8?
                                                                                Level 4

                                                                                also..just to give you a heads up...the anti-aliasing ---the striated "look" on her "dress" ( shirt - whatever ) -- should go away and be smoother and more blended when we fix this up... will look better.  The problem now is really mainly a couple steps to come up with some solution that gives you the best quality within the delivery desire ( product ) with 2 different programs ( and eventually your computer "power" ).  Personally I like Lucy the way she looks now... got some meat on her !

                                                                                 

                                                                                 

                                                                                 

                                                                                ps..you are confusing par with sar and dar ( pixel aspect ratio of 1.0 (par ) with display aspect ratio etc

                                                                                 

                                                                                anyway, dont matter ...we are close to solution I think

                                                                                • 37. Re: 2 questions about using Premiere Elements 8?
                                                                                  the_wine_snob Level 9

                                                                                  Mike,

                                                                                   

                                                                                  I believe that the PAR is 1.0, or Square Pixels. The DAR (Display Aspect Ratio) and SAR (Storage Aspect Ratio) are 1.3333, but that is because they have a 4:3 Aspect Ratio, i.e. 4/3 = 1.3333. When one has PAR = 1.0, the SAR & DAR will be the same. This ARTICLE will give you more detail on PAR, SAR & DAR.

                                                                                   

                                                                                  Because Poser is working with the display of the computer monitor, primarily, I doubt that it can be set to Export to non-Square Pixels, but do not know that for a fact.

                                                                                   

                                                                                  Hope that this helps,

                                                                                   

                                                                                  Hunt

                                                                                  • 38. Re: 2 questions about using Premiere Elements 8?
                                                                                    Nohjekim Level 1

                                                                                    Hi Again.

                                                                                     

                                                                                    Ok I think I get the difference now.

                                                                                     

                                                                                    I can see how that would distort the image, but I don't get how it would effect how large it appears in the frame at least not to the extent I'm seeing.

                                                                                     

                                                                                    Anyway if you guys haven't seen the video, here's a link.

                                                                                     

                                                                                    This was shot in my home town Grand Rapids, Michigan.

                                                                                    I just saw it for the first time and it's amazing.

                                                                                    If you are a local as I am you will recognise a lot of the people in it and one shot shows the windows to my old office when I was downtown.

                                                                                     

                                                                                    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZPjjZCO67WI&feature=player_embedded

                                                                                     

                                                                                    Anyway I'm going to stop messing with this for a while and get on with doing the main video and lip syncing.

                                                                                    Once that is done I will know how long the background video will have to run, and what the timing to the actions will have to be.

                                                                                     

                                                                                    Thanks again for all the help.

                                                                                    I'll get this done.

                                                                                     

                                                                                    Mike

                                                                                    • 39. Re: 2 questions about using Premiere Elements 8?
                                                                                      Level 4

                                                                                      ===========

                                                                                      I can see how that would distort the image, but I don't get how it would  effect how large it appears in the frame at least not to the extent I'm  seeing.

                                                                                      =======

                                                                                      yes, its just a matter of matching the export from poser to the import of your version prE presets, so that when you go BACK to poser you have the quality you need to keep adding modeling, effects etc...and then go and export THAT to the next step ( deliver ? or color grade etc ? more effects ? ). The main thing here was to match your poser space with an export from poser that interprets your real modeling "camera" settings... eg. the camera settings in your scene should match your export from poser.

                                                                                       

                                                                                      Then you import THAT export from poser to editing software ( at exact same settings ). Edit, and Export from editing software back to poser ( in your case so you can add ghost etc )...again, matching the settings....( specs ) and no loss in codec used if any is used ...

                                                                                       

                                                                                      at some point you get "done" with it and deliver it to someone ( blue ray, dvd, web, broadcast, etc )...

                                                                                       

                                                                                      That's the workflow part of stuff with editing in general..and we are stuck here now with no clue what your

                                                                                      a) poser exports allow compared to

                                                                                      b) what your prE imports allow

                                                                                       

                                                                                      which have to match or you get a fat lucy or a skinny lucy etc....

                                                                                       

                                                                                      personally I like lucy the way she is !  and thanks for the video link....Im gonna watch it now

                                                                                       

                                                                                       

                                                                                       

                                                                                      ps.. Mike, you know how in the old days stats for ads were done with copy cameras ? for stripping stuff into ads etc? for going up or down in "size" ??   This is the same thing...in a way... like you would tell ( as AD ) the copy camera guy to "make this 40% )...so you could strip it into the comp.. ???  Well in THIS case you can do THAT...plus you can lose the "proportion" of the width and height...by making the pixels non square !!!!!  shrink it left and right, or up and down .... know what I mean ?? THAT's the main difference between copy camera stats and reproductions and editing in computer...

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