10 Replies Latest reply on Feb 15, 2012 6:46 PM by Loucann

    Print to Tape works! but a catch

    lou4uandme Level 1

      Hi all ,

      Years ago (SD tapes) I remember sending my finish films back to the tape deck via Print to tape.

      Then I tried to do it with HDV footage. To my surprise, it didn't work.  I did find out why. The project needs to be at 30 FPS.

      If I dropped my clips into a 29.976 project, Print to Tape work like a charm. If your timeline is 24 (23.976) then it will not work.

       

      So, do you see where i'm going?

       

      If the tape deck needs 29.976 FPS to rint to tape, How do you send your 23.976 movie back to the camera's deck?

       

      Usually, the extra 6 frames are added at the DVD burning stages and your MASTER project & render is 23.976.

       

      So what would be the best quality way to add those 6 frames and make a HDV MASTER RENDER?

       

      I have Cineform HD but there is no setting to add frames to it, only removing frames (pull down)

       

      In case you're wondering why I need to:

      I was told by a transfer studio, that It would be best if I give the an HDV MASTER on my Mini DV deck, and they will transfer it to BETA SP.

       

      Thanks,

      Lou

        • 1. Re: Print to Tape works! but a catch
          lou4uandme Level 1

          Ok never mind. I just discovered that Vegas pro 10 has an HDV out to tape. Worked like a charm.

          Just can't get over that a 2nd rate contender in the NLE work force has a better option than Premeire CS5.5

           

          Oh well,

          • 2. Re: Print to Tape works! but a catch
            Harm Millaard Level 7

            Then I tried to do it with HDV footage. To my surprise, it didn't work.  I did find out why. The project needs to be at 30 FPS.

            If I dropped my clips into a 29.976 project, Print to Tape work like a charm.

             

            That should not come as a surprise, since all tape based cameras use single speed for the tape. They do not adjust recording speed or tape speed when using 24 P or 29.97 P or 29.97 i. The only exception that I know of is DVCAM and DV, or SP versus LP where tape speed is different.

            • 3. Re: Print to Tape works! but a catch
              lou4uandme Level 1

              So then how does it record 24p? or 30?

               

              I get that the camera has a steady "Tape speed" that remains constant, but I don't understand

              why it can't use the same technology that records in 24p mode and use that "print to tape" signal instead of the signal coming thru the lens?

               

              In any case, Vegas pro figure out that it will add the 6 frames during the Print to tape export and it works fine.

              • 4. Re: Print to Tape works! but a catch
                Bob Dix Photographer Level 2

                Hi Harm,

                 

                 

                What happens if it is 25fps PAL ?

                • 5. Re: Print to Tape works! but a catch
                  digitlman Level 1

                  Yes, you appear to have found a "bug' or missing function of premiere cs5. (is it fixed in 5.5?)

                   

                  My sony HVR-M25AU decks are fully capable of recording HDV 1080/24p signals from firewire and it is not working from premiere cs5. I created the adobe HDV 1080p24  sequence and tried export to tape and my deck flashes a big window saying "Invalid Input Format"

                   

                  doh! lol as i just typed this i looked back at premiere to verify the sequence name and in the window for the preset description it says:

                   

                  "Note; Export to tape is not supported in this editing mode"

                   

                  O'well now that leaves us with - Hey adobe why cant $800 premiere do something so simple that sony vegas can?

                  • 6. Re: Print to Tape works! but a catch
                    Bob Dix Photographer Level 2

                    The older software did it very well and still does, you do not need 5.5 to do HDV/mpeg-2 , but, you would imagine it could do it ?

                    • 7. Re: Print to Tape works! but a catch
                      editman21 Level 1

                      I am having the same problem. My Sony HVR-M15AU is giving me the same "invalid input" message as digitlman. I would also like his question answered. Why can't Premiere perform this very simple task? I spent extra money to buy a deck that was capable of recording 24p output and it never occurred to me that such a comprehensive piece of software would have such a painfully basic limitation!

                       

                      So...where is a moderator? When are we going to see this fixed?

                       

                      I say fixed because I look at this as being a basic capability that you should expect from a pro-level NLE. To me it's broken without this.

                      • 8. Re: Print to Tape works! but a catch
                        Loucann Level 1

                        It was a while ago, but if i remember correctly, it had to do with frame rate.

                        For example,

                        The project HAD TO BE 30 frames per sec NOT 24

                        So I spent days trying a work around.

                        Some were:

                        1 Render entire timeline out an MPEG 30 frames/ then drop that render on a 30 frame timeline./ then OUT TO TAPE

                        2.Throw the whole timeline onto a 30 frame project and hope for the best when it when OUT TO TAPE/

                        FINAL WAY-----------

                        1. Downloaded trial of VEGAS

                        2. OUT TO TAPE worked with 24 project.

                        THE CATCH------

                        It converted your 24p to 30i before going to tape automatically.

                         

                        In any case, it worked great.

                         

                        Final thoughts,

                        I think OUT TO TAPE must be 30i due to NTSC broadcast standards....(I THINK)

                        Hope it helped

                        Lou

                        • 9. Re: Print to Tape works! but a catch
                          editman21 Level 1

                          Yes, I figured out that this was a possibility. However, DV and HDV recording isn't limited to 60i recording. The machine I'm using is also capable of recording a pure 24p stream in either DV or HDV mode. Some decks and camcorders only record 24p in a 60i stream, however this isn't one of them. I don't know how Vegas outputs video, but I fed the machine a 24p stream from a camcorder, and the display registered it as 24p and the recording took place as it should. The problem is Premiere is missing a function. I can only use the Vegas trial for so long. Is there a separate utility that I can use to make up for Premiere's shortcomings? (since they will probably never fix this unless they start losing market share over it...which probably won't happen)

                          • 10. Re: Print to Tape works! but a catch
                            Loucann Level 1

                            Not sure what "Utiity" you're talking about. Maybe someone over at Creative cow forum might be more helpful, (Although,some of them can be nasty & rude, they might be more what you're looking for)

                            Yeah I don't think Adobe will fix this issue anyway. I'm not sure if the film market is needing a tape out as much. (editorial speaking).

                            I wonder if Avid has this feature & if it works?