18 Replies Latest reply on Jul 11, 2011 9:38 AM by AtonMusic

    Jerky playback even on RAID 0

    katzkane

      Hopefully someone has a solution to this irritation!

      I am running Premiere Pro CS5 on a Dual Xeon 2.4Ghz, Windows 7 64bit with 24 GB of RAM and an Nvidia Quadro 40000. It is a new system with barely anything but CS5 installed.

      I render out PSD image sequences from After Effects and when I play them back on Premiere's timeline, 720p sequences can just about play smoothly however 1080p sequences stutter consistently.

      To resolve this issue I have bought an extra 2 WD Velociraptor 10000rpm drives and now have 3 of these drives striped as a single volume in a Raid 0 configuration. I've tested the Max Read of this new volume and I can get 326 MB/s out of it so no problems there.

      CS5 is installed on my system C drive. The footage and Adobe cache files are stored on the RAID 0 volume and the Premiere project is saved on an external eSata drive. I have Mercury Playback GPU Acceleration selected in Premiere, I have the latest Quadro 4000 driver installed, I dragged the imported footage onto the New Item icon in Premiere so it matches the sequence settings. Reducing the playback resolution with Premiere makes no difference whatsoever.

      It is so frustrating that the jerky playback is still happening. It is happening with footage shot on a Red also. The only possibilities I can possibly think of now are that there is some magic unit size I should use when creating the RAID volume, or whether AVG is somehow interfering, or if there is some feature on Windows 7 that I am not aware of that is doing things with the drives.

      Does anyone have any thoughts on how to resolve this?

        • 1. Re: Jerky playback even on RAID 0
          joe bloe premiere Level 5


          What are you using as a RAID controller?

          If you are using an on-board controller, you might try something faster.

           

          Areca ARC-1680-i/1680LP/1680x

          • 2. Re: Jerky playback even on RAID 0
            katzkane Level 1

            I don't think it can be a speed issue as I have tried a TIFF sequence (that has larger file sizes) and this actually plays back slightly smoother. I then tried an uncompressed 1080p avi, again with a bigger file size than the PSD sequence, and that had perfect playback.

             

            From a look around google I came across a couple of threads that suggested Premiere has an ongoing and known issue with image sequence realtime playback. Is anyone familiar with this?

            • 3. Re: Jerky playback even on RAID 0
              AtonMusic Level 2

              katzkane,

               

              a good rule of thumb, when using adobe video apps, is to restart your computer every hour.

               

              I work with a RAID0 (4 Drive HW RAID Controller) and image sequences on Mac with 32GB RAM.

               

              Premiere Pro, after the Mac has booted will operate well for about an hour, depending on how much is going on in the project.

              After that, all H**** breaks loose and I have to reboot my Mac. After Effects, although not as bad, suffers from this problem too.

               

              I have no idea what the problem is. But I know this for SURE... There is a problem.

               

              I work in all kinds of apps but they never exhibit this behavior.

               

              I am also NOT too mad about it... Gives me room for a breather. But I could imagine clients looking a little funny if they were attending the session.

              • 4. Re: Jerky playback even on RAID 0
                cvid01 Level 4

                One idea that solved my stuttering videos: clean out the cache files from time to time.

                Also, defragment your drives as well.

                Just a thought.

                • 5. Re: Jerky playback even on RAID 0
                  Ann Bens Adobe Community Professional & MVP

                  What if you lower your playback resolution?

                  • 6. Re: Jerky playback even on RAID 0
                    katzkane Level 1

                    Lowering the resolution in Premiere makes no difference whatsoever unfortunately, even down to a 1/4 res, the lowest available option for the 1080p sequence.

                     

                    It is a brand new raid volume. The only files on there are the image sequences. The raid volume is made up of 3 drives that had existing material on before, and I did a quick format of them when I made the RAID in Windows 7. So there are no cache files apart from the ones created on this single premiere project.

                     

                    This new system has worked like a dream since I got it and I only invested further into a RAID to sort out the choppy image sequence playback, which is the only flaw, which is doubly irritating that it still unable to do it, even when I can get more than 300MB read rate from the raid.

                    • 7. Re: Jerky playback even on RAID 0
                      joe bloe premiere Level 5
                      ...when I made the RAID in Windows 7.

                       

                      Did you use Windows Disk Manager to create an OS level RAID,

                      or are you using a dedicated RAID controller... either on-board or add-on?

                      • 8. Re: Jerky playback even on RAID 0
                        katzkane Level 1

                        I used the disk manager within Windows 7 to create the striped Raid volume.

                         

                        From the data rates I get now and the fact I can play an uncompressed AVI file of larger size I assumed I couldn't be a speed issue.

                         

                        Do you think a dedicated raid cointroller would solve the issue?

                         

                        I don't want to really be spending more money on something if it is not neccessarily the issue. Ipretty much spent my last bti of available money on the extra 2 drives!

                        • 9. Re: Jerky playback even on RAID 0
                          joe bloe premiere Level 5

                          The performance of an OS level RAID will be far below
                          what can be achieved with a dedicated RAID controller.

                           

                          Here is a great resource for deciding...

                           

                          To RAID or not to RAID, that is the question

                          • 10. Re: Jerky playback even on RAID 0
                            Bill Gehrke Most Valuable Participant

                            Why don't you test your system to see how well it does with the Premiere Pro BenchMark (PPBM5)?  I suspect you have not done any tuning and definitly turn off AVG while you are editing!

                            • 11. Re: Jerky playback even on RAID 0
                              witzgall

                              Did you format the drives correctly, ie, not using Quick Format? If you used qf, that would cause all kinds of performance issues.

                              • 12. Re: Jerky playback even on RAID 0
                                katzkane Level 1

                                Hi Witzgall

                                 

                                Thanks for the info. I'm pretty sure I did do a quick format so will try and reformat fully and report back.

                                 

                                Will then try the Premiere Pro benchmark test, have not had a second since I last posted here to try it.

                                • 13. Re: Jerky playback even on RAID 0
                                  witzgall Level 1

                                  I betcha that is the problem then. Quick format does not format all of the drive, instead, it formats on the fly as new space is needed. That will slow you down.

                                  • 14. Re: Jerky playback even on RAID 0
                                    Bill Gehrke Most Valuable Participant

                                    witzgall wrote:

                                     

                                    Did you format the drives correctly, ie, not using Quick Format? If you used qf, that would cause all kinds of performance issues.

                                    Do you have any basis for that statement?  I have never used anything but quick format.

                                    • 15. Re: Jerky playback even on RAID 0
                                      WebOfWebs Level 1

                                      was he talking mac or pc?

                                      i know for pc's, a quick format wipes the index of a disk. so your os (operating syatem) sees the disk as empty.

                                      it literally writes data over existing data - the existing data makes no difference to speed or otherwise. its ignored by the os.

                                       

                                      a full format will write data (usually zeros) to the disk, filling it up completely.

                                      but again your os will ignore whats already there, and overwrite.

                                       

                                      A full format can solve corrupted clusters (which you can easily find using the scandisk tool) - but if you are having that problem, your harddrive is probably on its way to the bin.

                                       

                                      Hope that helps clarify things.

                                      • 16. Re: Jerky playback even on RAID 0
                                        MobyTrix Level 1

                                        katzkane wrote:

                                         

                                        I render out PSD image sequences from After Effects and when I play them back on Premiere's timeline, 720p sequences can just about play smoothly however 1080p sequences stutter consistently.
                                        ...
                                        Does anyone have any thoughts on how to resolve this?

                                         

                                        Don't expect image sequences to play back realtime; they won't.  Actually, that's not entirely true; if your I/O subsystem can produce very high transfer rates (which it sounds like yours can, at 300MB/s) then you might be able to if your image sequences are UNcompressed TIFF.  Any other compressed format (compressed/LZW TIFF, PNG, PSD) is not optimized for video playback and you're going to get stuttering.  You proved this yourself by rendering to an uncompressed .AVI file which you said played back perfectly.

                                         

                                        Your options are:

                                         

                                        1. Render your sequences to uncompressed .avi
                                        2. Render your sequences to a lightly-compressed format like Cineform (only slightly lossy)
                                        3. Save your image stills in uncompressed TIFF

                                         

                                        Or, you could just live with the stuttering -- remember, it's a preview issue only, your final mastered output file will be flawless.  If you simply MUST have realtime playback of what you already have because you're trying to time/edit a sensitive part, adjust the work bar to cover just that section and then render the section.  It will render to an intermediate format for preview which will play back realtime.

                                         

                                        PS: Ignore this hard drive reformatting talk -- If you're seeing rates of 300MB/s out of your RAID-0 then you're hitting the maximum transfer rate of SATA 3 (which is great).  The problem isn't your RAID-0.

                                        • 17. Re: Jerky playback even on RAID 0
                                          katzkane Level 1

                                          Well I did a full reformat of my RAID 0 (just to be sure) and have attached an image of the speeds I get out of it.

                                           

                                          I also tried uncompressed TIFF 1080p as suggested, unfortunately it's no better than PSD. It holds for a few second and then the inevitable stuttering begins.

                                           

                                          I'm starting to think it may just be a Premiere thing because the uncompressed TIFF sequence comes in at 5.04GB, the sequence last for 34 secs giving a data rate of 153MB/s, I can get more than double that of my Raid.

                                           

                                          I'd be interested to hear if anyone can ever get smooth playback from an image sequence at 1080p.

                                           

                                          speed-test.jpg

                                          • 18. Re: Jerky playback even on RAID 0
                                            AtonMusic Level 2

                                            Hi...

                                             

                                            I use a 4-drive RAID 0 and Image Sequences. No problems at all.

                                             

                                            A FullHD Tiff Sequence (uncompressed) weighs in at 8.3MB(Image Size) x 29.97 Fps = 248.751 MB/s

                                             

                                            I dont know how you come about that other number.

                                             

                                             

                                             

                                            I dont know how your RAID0 is configured. I.e. If you have an external 4 slot enclosure and those four slots are being combined to exit the housing

                                            via ONE FW800 Cable then you are crippling your RAID and speed. The outputs NEEDs to be separate !

                                             

                                            EACH drive needs its OWN connected to ensure MAX speed. So if you have a 4-drive enclosure you will want to make sure that the housing has i.e. 4 separate e-sata connectors. Then connect them to 4 separate e-sata inputs on your computer. That will give you Maximum speed.

                                             

                                             

                                            Hope this helps