4 Replies Latest reply on Jun 13, 2011 8:16 AM by kelly wrinkle

    Cirrus not working with certain ISP's?

    kelly wrinkle

      Currently unable to send data between clients using the following ISPs:  AT&T to Time Warner, and AT&T to Wandering WiFi.

       

      Below are the places we have tried.


      ISP-A                                     ISP-B                Able to Send Data?                   

      Cox                                          Comcast                              Yes

      Cox                                          Integra                                 Yes

      AT&T                                      AT&T                                   Yes

      AT&T                                      Comcast                                Yes

      Comcast                                  Comcast                                 Yes

      AT&T                                      Cox                                        Yes

      Cox                                          Comcast                                 Yes

      AT&T                                      Time Warner                           No

      Comcast                                   Time Warner                          Yes                       

      XO Communications               Comcast                                 Yes           

      Wandering WiFi                      Time Warner                           Yes

      Wandering WiFi                      AT&T                                      No

      Charter Communications         Cox                                         Yes                                               

        • 1. Re: Cirrus not working with certain ISP's?
          Michael Thornburgh Adobe Employee

          the observed results don't make sense given the combinations that do work.  if possible, re-run your experiments on the two failed paths to eliminate a transient network issue between AT&T and those other two ISPs.

           

          if those two paths' failures persist, it would be interesting to see results from cc.rtmfp.net from affected clients at AT&T, Time Warner, and Wandering WiFi.

           

          for each distinct ISP in that list, were the tests run from the same client in the same location and same network configuration (including wired or wireless)? or were different routers/end user networks/wifi base stations/computers/etc used between tests that succeeded and tests that failed at the common points (AT&T, TW, Wandering)?  different networking equipment may have different NAT/firewall behavior, so for example, a computer at person A's house on AT&T might have a BEHAVEing NAT and RTMFP might work reliably to other ISPs, but person B also on AT&T might have a broken symmetric NAT that can cause problems when communicating with other symmetric or port-restricted cone NATs.  depending on whether you performed a test from person A or B's networks, you could get different results even though they're both on AT&T.

          • 2. Re: Cirrus not working with certain ISP's?
            kelly wrinkle Level 1

            I gathered all the data from the places we tested and had them take a screen shot from cc.rtmfp.net.  I also asked for their modem and whether they connect wirelesly.  Please find the compiled data below. I hope this helps.

             

            ISP-AROUTER/ MODEMWIRE/ WIRELESSKNOWS PUBLIC IP ADDRESS OF SELF (NO NAT)PUBLIC IPPUBLIC UDP PORT # SAME AS LOCAL UDP PORT #CAN RECEIVE FROM SAME IP ADDRESS, SAME UDP PORT #CAN RECEIVE FROM SAME IP ADDRESS, DIFFERENT UDP PORT   NUMBERCAN RECEIVE FROM DIFFERENT IP ADDRESS, DIFFERENT UDP   PORT #CAN SEND TO DIFFERENT IP ADDRESS AFTER SERVER INTRO.SOURCE IP ADDRESS IS PRESERVED FROM ORIGINAL   CONNECTIONSOURCE UDP PORT # IS PRESERVED FROM ORIGINAL   CONNECTIONISP-BROUTER/MODEMWIRE/ WIRELESSKNOWS PUBLIC IP ADDRESS OF SELF (NO NAT)PUBLIC IPPUBLIC UDP PORT # SAME AS LOCAL UDP PORT #CAN RECEIVE FROM SAME IP ADDRESS, SAME UDP PORT #CAN RECEIVE FROM SAME IP ADDRESS, DIFFERENT UDP PORT   NUMBERCAN RECEIVE FROM DIFFERENT IP ADDRESS, DIFFERENT UDP   PORT #CAN SEND TO DIFFERENT IP ADDRESS AFTER SERVER INTRO.SOURCE IP ADDRESS IS PRESERVED FROM ORIGINAL   CONNECTIONSOURCE UDP PORT # IS PRESERVED FROM ORIGINAL   CONNECTIONSUCCESSFUL
            AT&T in NCyellow.jpg64.134.176.227:52457green.jpggreen.jpgyellow.jpgyellow.jpggreen.jpggreen.jpggreen.jpgAT&T in Savannah, GAMotorola 12VDCWirelessyellow.jpg74.243.105.148:64511yellow.jpggreen.jpgyellow.jpgyellow.jpggreen.jpggreen.jpgred.jpgNo
            Hargray in SCyellow.jpg64.20.156.36: 60522green.jpggreen.jpgyellow.jpgyellow.jpggreen.jpggreen.jpggreen.jpgAT&T in Savannah, GAMotorola 12VDCWirelessyellow.jpg74.243.105.148:64511yellow.jpggreen.jpgyellow.jpgyellow.jpggreen.jpggreen.jpgred.jpgNo
            Wandering WiFi in Savannah, GAWirelessyellow.jpg64.241.37.140:53596yellow.jpggreen.jpgyellow.jpgyellow.jpggreen.jpggreen.jpggreen.jpgAT&T in Savannah, GAMotorola 12VDCWirelessyellow.jpg74.243.105.148:64511yellow.jpggreen.jpgyellow.jpgyellow.jpggreen.jpggreen.jpgred.jpgNo
            Cox in CAD-Link DIR-655Bothyellow.jpg70.187.187.162:51682green.jpggreen.jpggreen.jpgyellow.jpggreen.jpggreen.jpggreen.jpgComcast in MAyellow.jpg24.60.26.180:52464green.jpggreen.jpgyellow.jpgyellow.jpggreen.jpggreen.jpggreen.jpgYes
            Cox in CAD-Link DIR-656Bothyellow.jpg70.187.187.162:51682green.jpggreen.jpggreen.jpgyellow.jpggreen.jpggreen.jpggreen.jpgIntegra in Seattle, WAyellow.jpg67.137.72.98:53622yellow.jpggreen.jpgyellow.jpgyellow.jpggreen.jpggreen.jpgred.jpgYes
            AT&T in Savannah, GAMotorola 12VDCWirelessyellow.jpg74.243.105.148:64511yellow.jpggreen.jpgyellow.jpgyellow.jpggreen.jpggreen.jpgred.jpgAT&T in Enfield, CTSpeedStream 5100Wiredgreen.jpg69.0.31.148:1182green.jpggreen.jpggreen.jpggreen.jpggreen.jpggreen.jpggreen.jpgYes
            AT&T in Savannah, GAMotorola 12VDCWirelessyellow.jpg74.243.105.148:64511yellow.jpggreen.jpgyellow.jpgyellow.jpggreen.jpggreen.jpgred.jpgComcast in Springfield, MAArrisTM402P/110Wirelessyellow.jpg71.192.181.228:3905green.jpggreen.jpggreen.jpggreen.jpggreen.jpggreen.jpggreen.jpgYes
            Comcast in Savannah, GAArisWBM760AWirelessyellow.jpg71.228.128.212:53671green.jpggreen.jpggreen.jpgyellow.jpggreen.jpggreen.jpggreen.jpgComcast in Springfield, MAArrisTM402P/111Wirelessyellow.jpg71.192.181.228:3905green.jpggreen.jpggreen.jpggreen.jpggreen.jpggreen.jpggreen.jpgYes
            AT&T in Savannah, GAMotorola 12VDCWirelessyellow.jpg74.243.105.148:64511yellow.jpggreen.jpgyellow.jpgyellow.jpggreen.jpggreen.jpgred.jpgCox in CAD-Link DIR-655Bothyellow.jpg70.187.187.162:51682green.jpggreen.jpggreen.jpgyellow.jpggreen.jpggreen.jpggreen.jpgYes
            AT&T in Savannah, GAMotorola 12VDCWirelessyellow.jpg74.243.105.148:64511yellow.jpggreen.jpgyellow.jpgyellow.jpggreen.jpggreen.jpgred.jpgTime Warner in Chapel Hill, NCMotorolaWirelessyellow.jpg69.134.31.68: 51886green.jpggreen.jpgyellow.jpgyellow.jpggreen.jpggreen.jpggreen.jpgNo
            Comcast in Savannah, GAArisWBM760AWirelessyellow.jpg71.228.128.212:53671green.jpggreen.jpggreen.jpgyellow.jpggreen.jpggreen.jpggreen.jpgTime Warner in Chapel Hill, NCMotorolaWirelessyellow.jpg69.134.31.68: 51886green.jpggreen.jpgyellow.jpgyellow.jpggreen.jpggreen.jpggreen.jpgYes
            Wandering WiFi in Savannah, GAWirelessyellow.jpg64.241.37.140:53596yellow.jpggreen.jpgyellow.jpgyellow.jpggreen.jpggreen.jpggreen.jpgTime Warner in Chapel Hill, NCMotorolaWirelessyellow.jpg69.134.31.68: 51886green.jpggreen.jpgyellow.jpgyellow.jpggreen.jpggreen.jpggreen.jpgYes
            Time Warner in CACisco 2100yellow.jpg24.43.8.144: 34412yellow.jpggreen.jpggreen.jpggreen.jpggreen.jpggreen.jpggreen.jpgCox in CAD-Link DIR-655Bothyellow.jpg70.187.187.162:51682green.jpggreen.jpggreen.jpgyellow.jpggreen.jpggreen.jpggreen.jpgYes
            Wandering WiFi in Savannah, GAWirelessyellow.jpg64.241.37.140:53596yellow.jpggreen.jpgyellow.jpgyellow.jpggreen.jpggreen.jpggreen.jpgAT&T in Enfield, CTSpeedStream 5100Wiredgreen.jpg69.0.31.148:1182green.jpggreen.jpggreen.jpggreen.jpggreen.jpggreen.jpggreen.jpgYes
            Wandering WiFi in Savannah, GAWirelessyellow.jpg64.241.37.140:53596yellow.jpggreen.jpgyellow.jpgyellow.jpggreen.jpggreen.jpggreen.jpgComcast in Springfield, MAArrisTM402P/110Wirelessyellow.jpg69.134.31.68: 51886green.jpggreen.jpggreen.jpggreen.jpggreen.jpggreen.jpggreen.jpgYes
            Cox in CAD-Link DIR-655Bothyellow.jpg70.187.187.162:51682green.jpggreen.jpggreen.jpgyellow.jpggreen.jpggreen.jpggreen.jpgQwest in Coloradoyellow.jpg67.131.94.2: 45113yellow.jpggreen.jpgyellow.jpgyellow.jpggreen.jpggreen.jpggreen.jpgYes

            • 3. Re: Cirrus not working with certain ISP's?
              Michael Thornburgh Adobe Employee

              this table indicates that there is one user (AT&T in Savannah, GA, at IP address 74.243.105.148) who was having connectivity problems.  this user appears to have a symmetric NAT (SOURCE UDP PORT # IS PRESERVED FROM ORIGINAL CONNECTION = NO/RED). symmetric NAT (also known as "defective" IMO) will not work with RTMFP in certain circumstances: specifically where the other end is also a symmetric NAT or is a port-restricted cone NAT.

               

              this user on AT&T had successful connections when communicating with others where their NAT allowed "CAN RECEIVE FROM SAME IP ADDRESS, DIFFERENT UDP PORT NUMBER = YES/GREEN", but did not have successful communication when that field was YELLOW/NO.  that field being YELLOW/NO indicates at least a port-restricted cone NAT, which won't work P2P with a symmetric NAT.

               

              these results appear to be caused by this user's router, not by AT&T.  other AT&T users with different equipment (that doesn't exhibit symmetric NAT behavior) appear to work.

               

              this user should reconfigure (if possible) or replace his/her defective router.

              • 4. Re: Cirrus not working with certain ISP's?
                kelly wrinkle Level 1

                Thank you,

                 

                I will do furthur testing to see if this fixes the issue.