12 Replies Latest reply on Jun 21, 2011 9:30 AM by Ted Smith

    Sound deterioration_PrE9

    Koscieliska Level 1

      Technical environment: PAL_AVCHD_HD_1080i25. Sound imported from SONY camera along with video.

       

      When imported and initialy listened in thh monitor, after importing through 'get media,' the sound is perfectly OK. But after dragging the file into timelin,e along with the video (video/audio 1 track), the sound grossly deteriorates. Why?

        • 1. Re: Sound deterioration_PrE9
          Steve Grisetti Adobe Community Professional

          Does your camcorder shoot in stereo or 5.1 audio?

           

          When you set up your project, did you ensure you had selected the correct video AND audio format?

           

          Also, have you ensured you have even the latest non-critical updates for your operating system? (Often you must manually update audio drivers.) And have you ensured you have the latest version of Quicktime from Apple?

          • 2. Re: Sound deterioration_PrE9
            the_wine_snob Level 9

            Along with Steve's questions, did you allow PrE to completely Conform your Audio for editiig. This ARTICLE will give you more details on the Conforming operation.

             

            Good luck,

             

            Hunt

            • 3. Re: Sound deterioration_PrE9
              Koscieliska Level 1

              Yes, I have done all this. I have tested this problem again today. This time the vouce was OK. Have to work it out why. Will keep the forum informed once found.

              • 4. Re: Sound deterioration_PrE9
                Koscieliska Level 1

                I am still investigating this problem. What I found is that my

                Source Audio Format is 48000 Hz - compressed - 6 channels.

                Project Audio Format is 48000 Hz - 32 bit - floating point - 6 channels.

                 

                This is an external wireless microphone attached to the camera. The microphone is OK, because when I play it in the Preview Screen the sound is OK (even if I am behind a brick wall, which is amazing). But when I drag the clip (video+audio) to the timeline the sound is OK when I talk from the short distance (1-2 m) but greatly deteriorates when I am 10 m  (with PrE8 this microphone worked perfectly over a distance of 300 m). Is it a matter of some kind of conforming? If yes please help how to do so. I can provide more technical details if required.

                • 5. Re: Sound deterioration_PrE9
                  the_wine_snob Level 9

                  The Conforming is for editing at high quality, with greater capabilities. PrE always Conforms to 48KHz Floating-Point for editing. The output will be 48KHz 16-bit, when you Export/Share. This is a natural part of the Import process, and is covered in more detail in this ARTICLE.

                   

                  Good luck,

                   

                  Hunt

                  • 6. Re: Sound deterioration_PrE9
                    Ted Smith Level 3

                    It would be very helpful if people woud describe faults more accurately.

                    Such terms as "deterioates", "shaky" or just plain "bad" don't make it any easier for others think up an answer.

                     

                    Some typical "distortions" to sound are:-

                    overloading (fuzzy sound at high level )

                    low level non linearity at low levels (a fuzzy sound more noticable at low levels

                    total nonliearity (rough sounding at soft and lound levels - like a cheap fuzz box)

                    lacking in low frequencies (no bass)

                    lacking in high frequencies (highs muted)

                    frequency combing (tinny metallic)

                    added sounds (hum or buzz added to sound - can be due to digitising problems)

                     

                    Often more than one of these can occur at the same time which makes it even more difficult to analyse.

                     

                    The distortions to video are even more numerous

                    • 7. Re: Sound deterioration_PrE9
                      Koscieliska Level 1

                      OK, here is more accurate description after my today's testing.

                       

                      I have an external wireless microphone (SONY) ECM-HW2(R). The receiver is attached to SONY camera recording video in AVCHD format. It is attached via a hotshoe. The microphone records sound in 5.1ch format.

                       

                      In my testing I continuously recorded my narration walking away from the camera. I began at the distance of 1 m, walked away 12 m and even walked couple of m behind the corner of my brick house (so the microphone and  sound reciever attached to the camera  were separated by couple of brick walls and metal cladding.

                       

                      Then I imported the video/audio clip to PrE9. The project setting was PAL-AVCHD-Ful lHD 1080i 25 5.1 channel. Here, when I click the preview monitor the sound is perfect (to my surprise even if the wireless microphone is behind couple of brick walls and metal claddings). The problem arises when I drag the clip to the timeline. In the timeline the sound is reasonably good when I stay about 1 m from the camera (although not as good as in the preview monitor) and gradually deteriorates (gets quiter and quiter) when I move away. Eventually at the distance of 6=7 m I can not hear my voice at all.

                       

                      Now, the interesting point is that the sound in this clip, when I inserted it into the timeline in PrE8(the same project settings: PAL_AVCHD-Full HD 1080i 25 5.1 channel), works perfectly well!

                       

                      Why? Is it another deficiency of PrE9 compare with PrE8?

                      • 8. Re: Sound deterioration_PrE9
                        Koscieliska Level 1

                        Another test: I imported the clip with 'deteriorating sound' from my desktop (AVCHD (.2ts) file)  to PrE8 and using 'Share' I saved it as MPEG2 (1920x1080i 25). Then I imported the saved clip to PrE9 and the sound is perfect. Yet when I import this clip directly to PrE9 (as described previously) the sound deteriorates.

                         

                        So in the moment I have on the timeline of PrE9 the same clip twice (imported in two different ways): imported as MPEG2 (saved from PrE8) works OK, while if imported directly to PrE9 as AVCHD (.2ts) file - the sound is bad.

                         

                        Why?

                        • 9. Re: Sound deterioration_PrE9
                          Ted Smith Level 3

                          The timeline might be playing back the rear channel instead of the forward channels?

                          Have you got the audio PE9 play back option settings for desktop or 5.1  right?

                           

                          Are you sure your camera is capable of and is producing 5.1 recording and this has  been selected in the camera presets?(not all Sony cams are true 5.1)

                           

                          Try setting up a project in normal audio (no 5.1) and see if it is better.

                           

                          What I meant in my previous post was a description of the AUDIO FAULT (not the circumstances) would be helpful such as the sound being rough, soft, loud fuzzy, buzzy, hollow, metallic etc.

                          "Deterioates" can mean anything of the above to an audio engineer.

                           

                          The rear channels will have a bit of an echo and have less high frequencies than the main channels and a description of this would immediately tell us you were not hearing the front channels.

                          • 10. Re: Sound deterioration_PrE9
                            Koscieliska Level 1

                            I have tried all these options Ted. It just does not work. When the clip is imported to PrE8, and I am walking away from the camera, the sound is just normal, no matter if I am going around my house (couple of brick walls - which is amazing). If it is imported to PrE9 though, it gradually  fades to zero  as I go away 3-4 m. It is one of many deficiencies of PrE9 compare to PrE8 to which I am switching back right now. In my experience PrE9 is like Vista. Hope PrE10 will be better. Could anyone on the forum comment please.

                            • 11. Re: Sound deterioration_PrE9
                              Koscieliska Level 1

                              After extensive testing (due to my poor technical abilities) I solved this problem. My external microphone is SONY ECM-HW2 bluetooth mike. It has three modes:

                               

                              1. Single mode = audio through wireless microphone only.

                              2. Mixed mono = audio through wireless mike and mike in the receiver (mike on camcoder still off).

                              3. Mixed 5.1 = camcoder mike records 5.1 sound and wireless records through central channel.

                               

                              No matter if the project setting (in PrE8 or PrE9) is PAL_AVCHD_Full HD 10801 25 or 25 5.1 channel only modes 1 and 2 work correctly. The third one does not work correctly (the sound is much subdued and quite to zero if there is any obstacle (such as a brick wall) between the camcoder and the bluetooth mike. I don't know why it is so, but I am quite happy to use modes 1 or 2 only.

                              • 12. Re: Sound deterioration_PrE9
                                Ted Smith Level 3

                                Yes, there is obviously some incompatibility with the mic channels.

                                 

                                The symptom you describe reminds me of what you get if you reverse the polarity of one stereo channel in an audio mixer and listen to a stereo mic in mono  (both channels combined or on a single speaker)

                                 

                                If both channels are the same level, you only get to hear the difference between the two channels. This is often only extraneous noise and room echo.

                                 

                                When you are close to the mic the channels could be different because of the sound pressure waves so you dont get as much cancellation but as you get faurther away they become closer to the same - thus cancelling them out. (A bit like how a noise cancelling mic works)