12 Replies Latest reply on May 13, 2012 9:30 PM by ottopia

    Preflight crash, a cause and solution

    ottopia Level 1

      Ever since Live Preflight was introduced in CS4 we have had crashes with random documents that could only be fixed by deactivating Preflight. The problem has continued in CS5 and CS5.5.

       

      The primary cause appeared to be importing Word files that have tracked changes. The solution to this is to accept all changes in Word before import the documents.

       

      We still have older documents with this problem, and reimporting the word files is not an option. Saving as IDML does not fix the file. The following procedure appears to fix these files.

       

      1. Create an temporary text frame anywhere in the document
      2. From the Sub-Menu of the Track Changes panel, select Enable Tracking In All Stories
      3. Type a few characters
      4. From the Sub-Menu of the Track Changes panel, select Accept All Changes -> In This Document
      5. Delete the temporary text frame

       

      Works with CS5.5. I no longer have CS4 installed to test this, so if you are having this problem with CS4, can you please test this solution and let us know.

       

      If anyone want's to investigate the problem deeper, (hello Adobe) I can provide an InDesign file that will crash every time.

       

      Note: Problem is on Mac, can't confirm if WIN is also affected.

        • 1. Re: Preflight crash, a cause and solution
          John Hawkinson Level 5

          Hi, ottopia.

           

          That's curious.

          Have you reported a bug?

          What's the crash report?

           

          I'm keenly interested in Live Preflight crashes because we have been fighting them in 7.0.4 (CS5) for quite some time.

          Ours frequently look like this (also Mac):

           

          Thread 0 Crashed:  Dispatch queue: com.apple.main-thread
          0   ...esign.Package and Preflight      0x2ce7cb63 0x2cdd9000 + 670563
          1   ...esign.Package and Preflight      0x2ce7ced0 0x2cdd9000 + 671440
          2   ...esign.Package and Preflight      0x2ce7ced0 0x2cdd9000 + 671440
          3   ...esign.Package and Preflight      0x2ce7ced0 0x2cdd9000 + 671440
          4   ...esign.Package and Preflight      0x2ce7ced0 0x2cdd9000 + 671440
          5   ...esign.Package and Preflight      0x2ce7ced0 0x2cdd9000 + 671440
          6   ...esign.Package and Preflight      0x2ce7ced0 0x2cdd9000 + 671440
          7   ...esign.Package and Preflight      0x2ce7ce30 0x2cdd9000 + 671280
          8   ...esign.Package and Preflight      0x2ce78c17 0x2cdd9000 + 654359
          9   ...esign.Package and Preflight      0x2ce80699 0x2cdd9000 + 685721
          10  ...esign.Package and Preflight      0x2ced8cda GetPlugIn + 284170
          11  ...esign.Package and Preflight      0x2ced93fc GetPlugIn + 285996
          12  ...adobe.InDesign.AppFramework      0x2b53ffa7 GetPlugIn + 45687

           

          (Yes, we've been working on them with Adobe. No, we don't have a solution.)

           

          Ours don't have to do with Word documents, but may have to do with other kinds of links.

          Do you have Create Links When Placing Text And Spreadsheet Files checked? (I guess I'm not sure if that works with Word documents...)

          • 2. Re: Preflight crash, a cause and solution
            ottopia Level 1

            I had submitted dozens of Adobe crash reports back when it first started in CS4 with no response. Finally gave up when the next few updates came out and it wasn't fixed. We finally gave up on Live Preflight. It's a benefit, but it wasn't really required for the type of work we do. I thought we were the only ones having the problem until I encountered someone at an IDUG that had experienced it. I decided today, to sit down and try and narrow the problem down some more.

             

            Doing some more tests, it appears that my solution only works while Enable Tracking is switched on for the problem story. In my test test document (which I can crash every time), while ET is on, it works perfectly, as soon as I switch ET off and try to edit the story, it crashes.

             

            My report output looks pretty similar and create links for text files is not on. I ran an AppleScript on my test file to list any change items in the story, and there are none.

             

            Thread 0 Crashed:  Dispatch queue: com.apple.main-thread

            0   ...esign.Package and Preflight     0x1c964ca1 GetPlugIn + 767873

            1   ...esign.Package and Preflight     0x1c921fd0 GetPlugIn + 494256

            2   ...esign.Package and Preflight     0x1c88b2b3 0x1c7ef000 + 639667

            3   ...gn.Package and Preflight UI     0x24de6746 GetPlugIn + 473814

            4   ...gn.Package and Preflight UI     0x24de6878 GetPlugIn + 474120

            5   ...gn.Package and Preflight UI     0x24dffdcc GetPlugIn + 577884

            6   ...gn.Package and Preflight UI     0x24e010bf GetPlugIn + 582735

            7   ...gn.Package and Preflight UI     0x24e01b99 GetPlugIn + 585513

            8   ...gn.Package and Preflight UI     0x24e009b7 GetPlugIn + 580935

            9   ...gn.Package and Preflight UI     0x24e00e70 GetPlugIn + 582144

            10  ...gn.Package and Preflight UI     0x24e01e59 GetPlugIn + 586217

            11  ...adobe.InDesign.AppFramework     0x1b53fab7 GetPlugIn + 45687

            12  ...adobe.InDesign.AppFramework     0x1b540079 GetPlugIn + 47161

            13  PublicLib.dylib                    0x0133a959 CSubject::Change(IDType<ClassID_tag>, IDType<PMIID_tag> const&, void*) + 89

            14  ...esign.Package and Preflight     0x1c88944c 0x1c7ef000 + 631884

            15  ...esign.Package and Preflight     0x1c88c6dc 0x1c7ef000 + 644828

            16  ...esign.Package and Preflight     0x1c897eec 0x1c7ef000 + 691948

            17  ...esign.Package and Preflight     0x1c8982d5 0x1c7ef000 + 692949

            18  ...adobe.InDesign.AppFramework     0x1b56fa81 GetPlugIn + 242241

            19  ...adobe.InDesign.AppFramework     0x1b5709ac GetPlugIn + 246124

            20  ...adobe.InDesign.AppFramework     0x1b512838 0x1b510000 + 10296

            21  ...adobe.InDesign.AppFramework     0x1b53800a GetPlugIn + 14282

            22  com.adobe.InDesign                 0x000028ab main + 187

            23  com.adobe.InDesign                 0x000027c6 start + 54

             

            I have hundreds of files using the same templates. The only thing different in the crashing files is the story content. Since we changed to only using Word files with accepted changes, the problem appeared to be gone, but it was random to start with, and we rarely used Preflight anymore, so it's not 100% confirmed.

            • 3. Re: Preflight crash, a cause and solution
              ottopia Level 1

              More information: Only one preflight option seems to cause my crashes.

               

              Paragraph Style and Character Style Overrides

               

              Every other preflight option can be on, but as long as this preflight option is off, my test document never crashes.

              • 4. Re: Preflight crash, a cause and solution
                John Hawkinson Level 5
                I had submitted dozens of Adobe crash reports back when it first started in CS4 with no response. Finally gave up when the next few updates came out and it wasn't fixed

                Please note there's a hierarchy of getting bugs fixed in Adobe-land. Crash reports are at the absolute bottom, they are mostly only used as a research tool, where Adobe can look at them in an automated fashion and say, "The top 1000 crashes this month are..."; it's kind of needle-in-a-haystack thing.

                 

                Next there are bug reports submitted at adobe.com/go/wish. These are probably a lot more likely to get fixed than crash reports, but that may not be saying very much.

                 

                Then there are bug reports submitted via a case, through adobe.com/go/supportportal. You should be able to get a Bug Id number. hopefully then you'll have a real chance of getting the issue fixed.

                 

                I'm sure there are further steps up the hierarchy that one could take after that, but I would be speculating.

                 

                In any case, though, you should not expect that submitting crash reports is sufficient to get bugs fixed, just being pragmatic here.

                 

                My report output looks pretty similar and create links for text files is not on. I ran an AppleScript on my test file to list any change items in the story, and there are none.

                Actually, it looks pretty different. The numbers do matter, and in your case the calls to the preflight module are interwoven with the calls to the UI module, which is interesting.

                 

                Lucky that you're able to narrow your case down to a particular preflight. In our case that did not work. It sounds like you have a good reliably reproducible test document. That's great, you should provide it to Adobe (via the support mechanism) and hopefully you'll get it fixed in CS6!

                 

                Thanks.

                • 5. Re: Preflight crash, a cause and solution
                  ottopia Level 1

                  With more tests, it looks like activating Tracking Changes doesn't fix the problem, just hides it.

                   

                  With a lot of manual editing of the IDML file story content, I think I've nailed the problem down enough that I can reproduce it from a brand new document every time. If someone else could test it to see if the results can be reproduced.

                   

                  1. Create an new 2 page document
                  2. If you don't already have one, create a Preflight Profile that has Paragraph Style and Character Styles Overrides activated.
                  3. Make the above Preflight profile active.
                  4. Add a text frame to the first page (at least half the page)
                  5. Insert placeholder text into the first text frame.
                  6. Create a text frame on the second page threaded to the first text frame.
                  7. Add a paragraph return at the end of the text in the first frame to will push the cursor over into the second frame.
                  8. Insert a 1 x 1 table at this location.
                  9. Select the paragraph in which the table is inserted, and add an override of some kind (I just left indent the table by 1mm).
                  10. The Preflight panel should now be showing an override of "Text (1 char)".
                  11. Now delete at least 5 characters from the first text frame, but not too many to cause the table to flow back into the first frame. This should cause it to crash.

                   

                  A few things to note:

                   

                  1. This is using the default paragraph and table styles.
                  2. There should be no other overrides other than the one in the paragraph containing the table.
                  3. The size of the table appears to be directly relational to the amount of characters that need to be deleted to cause the problem (i.e. a 1 x 2 table needs twice the amount of characters deleted.
                  4. No text following the table.
                  5. Deleting characters from the same text frame as the table does not cause it to crash

                   

                  It certainly seems like some kind of array indexing error. With the above document, add placeholder text after the table, and set your view so that only the first page is visible. Start deleting characters while watching the Preflight result. As you delete the characters, the result starts displaying the text after the cells as having the override. If any of the second page is visible while deleting from the first frame, it refreshes preflight correctly to display the table as having the override.

                   

                  As for activating Tacking Changes hiding the problem, the first image below is before activation

                  Screen shot 2011-06-05 at 8.39.02 AM.png

                  The second is with track changes active, and a line of text deleted.

                  Screen shot 2011-06-05 at 8.40.28 AM.png

                  It still says 3 characters, but no page number, and the characters represented are from the line of text I deleted.

                   

                  Oh and the reason it says 3 chars is seems to be counting the paragraph break and the body cells, but not the header cell, If I convert the header cells to body, the count goes to 4.

                   

                  I'll submit this into the bug report area, and hopefully we can all get it fixed soon, but I wanted to post it here to see if anyone else can reproduce this.

                  • 6. Re: Preflight crash, a cause and solution
                    ottopia Level 1

                    Just confirmed with CS4 that this procedure will cause ID to crash.

                    • 7. Re: Preflight crash, a cause and solution
                      RobertOliver1969 Level 1

                      I've been fighting Prelight hangs with InDesign 7.5.1 on Windows 7 all morning. I don't have any imported Word files that are being tracked. I have to turn Live Preflight on, find the problem, turn it off, fix the problem, then turn it back on. Not terribly efficient. If left on ID will hang 100% of the time.

                      • 8. Re: Preflight crash, a cause and solution
                        ottopia Level 1

                        You will be happy to know Adobe have finally fixed this crashing bug. All you need to do is upgrade to CS6.

                        • 9. Re: Preflight crash, a cause and solution
                          John Hawkinson Level 5

                          It's my understanding that 7.5.3 (a free upgrade to CS5.5) contains most of the preflight fixes that also made it into CS6. Have you found that not to be the case?

                          • 10. Re: Preflight crash, a cause and solution
                            ottopia Level 1

                            Definitely not fixed in CS5.5 (7.5.3.333). My 11 steps above still crash it every time.

                            • 11. Re: Preflight crash, a cause and solution
                              John Hawkinson Level 5

                              Ah. Does CS6 fix it?

                              • 12. Re: Preflight crash, a cause and solution
                                ottopia Level 1

                                I haven't tried too hard to break it yet, but yes, this particular crash is fixed in CS6.