18 Replies Latest reply on Jun 8, 2011 11:38 AM by Noel Carboni

    GRAIN in RAW not in jpeg

    oxyphoto1 Level 1

      when i open my RAW images in ACR they are SUPER grainy.  whether my ISO is set at 100 or 1000. 

      my jpeg images shot at the exact same time are not grainy at all.

      something is obviously happening in ACR...

      HELP! I can't use theses super grainy RAW images so I'm back to just editing jpegs in photoshop.

        • 1. Re: GRAIN in RAW not in jpeg
          Noel Carboni Level 7

          Post a screenshot or a couple of example images, please.

           

          Chances are the raw converter is showing you what's really in your data, while the JPEG has had significant noise reduction applied.

           

          You do know that in the Adobe Camera Raw converter, there's a whole panel of noise reduction you can dial-in yourself, right?  Most of us dial in some for our conversions.  You'll find ACR's noise reduction is in many ways superior to that which your camera is applying to its JPEGs.

           

          Here are the defaults I've chosen:

           

          ACR_Noise_Defaults.jpg

           

          -Noel

          • 2. Re: GRAIN in RAW not in jpeg
            oxyphoto1 Level 1

            no it's not grain that needs to be fixed. these images shouldn't have grain like they do!

            it's like something is going wrong when it's pulling up in camera raw.

            and like i said, this has just starting happening and i've not changed anything about the way i'm shooting.

            i will post screen shots shortly...

            • 3. Re: GRAIN in RAW not in jpeg
              oxyphoto1 Level 1

              THis first one is the RAW image pulled into photoshop with absolutely no adjustments done what so ever.

               

              Picture 2.png

               

              This is my jpeg image.

              Picture 3.png

              • 4. Re: GRAIN in RAW not in jpeg
                JimHess-ra2Osl Level 3

                I wonder if perhaps your default settings have been changed, and in that change your noise reduction settings changed also.  The noise doesn't look that unreasonable to me.

                • 5. Re: GRAIN in RAW not in jpeg
                  Noel Carboni Level 7

                  It is exactly as I have said.

                   

                  Your JPEG is noise-reduced compared to the raw file.

                   

                  Dial in more, as I showed you, and you'll be fine.  Also note that the Adobe defaults include a fair bit of sharpening.

                   

                  -Noel

                  1 person found this helpful
                  • 6. Re: GRAIN in RAW not in jpeg
                    oxyphoto1 Level 1

                    Okay thank you! I will try that!

                     

                    I just hadn't noticed this problem at all before and it seems really obvious to me now.

                    • 7. Re: GRAIN in RAW not in jpeg
                      oxyphoto1 Level 1

                      Also, I don't have as many adjustments in my sharpening window as you show....

                       

                       

                       

                      Picture 4.png

                      • 8. Re: GRAIN in RAW not in jpeg
                        Jeff Schewe Level 5

                        oxyphoto1 wrote:

                         

                        when i open my RAW images in ACR they are SUPER grainy.  whether my ISO is set at 100 or 1000. 

                        my jpeg images shot at the exact same time are not grainy at all.

                         

                        By default cameras apply a degree of sharpening and luminance noise reduction in the camera JPEG processing. By default Camera Raw does not apply and noise reduction. So, if you want to reduce the amount of noise in your raw images, you will need to apply a level of noise reduction in the Detail panel of Camera Raw. A setting if 20-30 would be a good starting point.

                        1 person found this helpful
                        • 9. Re: GRAIN in RAW not in jpeg
                          Noel Carboni Level 7

                          oxyphoto1 wrote:

                           

                          Also, I don't have as many adjustments in my sharpening window as you show....

                           

                          That's the difference between Adobe Camera Raw version 5.x (which is bundled with Photoshop CS4) and 6.x (which comes with Photoshop CS5).

                           

                          -Noel

                          • 10. Re: GRAIN in RAW not in jpeg
                            Noel Carboni Level 7

                            Jeff Schewe wrote:

                             

                            By default Camera Raw does not apply an[y] noise reduction


                            I thought version 5.x - with the 2003 process - did do some by default.  I know the 2010 process in 6.x doesn't, and most everyone figures out that they need to dial in more NR than they used to.

                             

                            -Noel

                            • 11. Re: GRAIN in RAW not in jpeg
                              Jeff Schewe Level 5

                              Process 2003 did some tiny amount of noise reduction in the demosiacing, yes. So I guess I should say that be default, Camera Raw does not apply any luminance noise reduction in the Detail panel...

                               

                              But the point is that the OP will need to ADD noise reduction in the Detail panel to match the level of noise reduction found in JPEGs. Agreed?

                              • 12. Re: GRAIN in RAW not in jpeg
                                ssprengel Adobe Community Professional & MVP

                                Looking back at your original two infant photos, you'll see there is more detail in the hair in the RAW image than the JPG image.  There is always a compromise between noise and image detail, where ACR will let you optimize it on a per-image basis. I've worked with RAW long enough that I prefer seeing a little grain, otherwise I know the noise-reduction has suppressed too much of the detail.

                                 

                                In comparison to Noel's settings, I usually set my Sharpen Mask slider reasonably high.  At 0 the noise is sharpened as much as the edges in the image, and the higher it is set, the more of a contrast an edge much have to be sharpened.  I don't remember if ACR 5.7 has the capability, but in ACR 6.x and Lightroom 3.x, I can hold down the Alt key on my PC (the Option key on the Mac, I assume) while I move the masking slider and make it high enough so I just see the edges and main image detail highlighted in white.  The optimal value changes from image to image depending on what blackpoint and contrast is being used, where increasing either will artificially increase the noise, but I usually have mine set up around 75.  You can see what your images need and decide if you want a default other than zero.

                                • 13. Re: GRAIN in RAW not in jpeg
                                  Noel Carboni Level 7

                                  Jeff Schewe wrote:

                                   

                                  But the point is that the OP will need to ADD noise reduction in the Detail panel to match the level of noise reduction found in JPEGs. Agreed?

                                   

                                  Absolutely.  I wasn't trying to be overly picky, but just pointing out that we tend to think about the latest software, while not everyone's running the latest.

                                   

                                  -Noel

                                  • 14. Re: GRAIN in RAW not in jpeg
                                    oxyphoto1 Level 1

                                    Thank you all very much! I do believe you were right and the settings on my noise reduction to RAW images had changed.

                                    I am adjusting those levels now and they seem to be looking okay.

                                     

                                    Thank you!

                                    • 15. Re: GRAIN in RAW not in jpeg
                                      Fred K. Level 1

                                      for ssprengel:

                                       

                                      Do I understand well, that you use the same slider-values for sharpen and noise as Noel did in his explanation-reply nr -1- of this thread.

                                      What values do you use (for low iso-images).

                                       

                                      Fred

                                      • 16. Re: GRAIN in RAW not in jpeg
                                        Fred K. Level 1

                                        for oxyphoto1:

                                         

                                        I had a same question a few months ago in this forum..... maybe interesting to read: "sharpening and noise in ACR 6.3.... advice please"

                                         

                                        Fred

                                        • 17. Re: GRAIN in RAW not in jpeg
                                          ssprengel Adobe Community Professional & MVP

                                          I use the Adobe defaults for lower ISO and turn up the color-NR to 50 or 100 for very high ISO images, and adjust the luminance-NR to whatever looks good for higher-ISO images.

                                          • 18. Re: GRAIN in RAW not in jpeg
                                            Noel Carboni Level 7

                                            Fred, think like this:

                                             

                                            1.  Set a Camera Raw Default that represents a good starting point for most of your shooting.

                                             

                                            2.  Tweak the controls on a per-image basis as needed to make your image pleasing to look at.

                                             

                                            Remember that you can set different Camera Raw Defaults for each different ISO you shoot at by checking this box:

                                             

                                            CameraRawDefaultsSpecificToISO.jpg

                                             

                                            -Noel