17 Replies Latest reply on Jun 7, 2011 4:03 PM by Peter Spier

    Cannot print Duplex pages from CS3, Need to Upgrade ID?

    Saskatchewanobie Level 2

      I have been working with CS3 InDesign which meets my needs fine, until now, maybe...

       

      I just purchased one of the new "all-in-one" Epson 635 Workforce Printers and was not able to bring up 'Duplex Printing' for two-sided printing, in the print dialog box where is should show up under output options. I'm using a newer MacBook Pro with Snow Leopard 10.6.7. I've also gone to the Epson site and updated the printer drivers for Snow Leopard.

       

      In working with Epson technical support, we were able to get Word to print a duplex document from my computer, but when I go to InDesign, the print dialog does not contain the option for duplex printing.

       

      Are there any solutions to this or is my only option to go for the expensive upgrade to CS5?

       

      Thank You,

       

      Ken

        • 1. Re: Cannot print Duplex pages from CS3, Need to Upgrade ID?
          Peter Spier Most Valuable Participant (Moderator)

          Duplexing is handled by the print dirver dialog, not the ID print dialog, so you need to go into the setup area for the printer from inside the ID print dialog.

          1 person found this helpful
          • 2. Re: Cannot print Duplex pages from CS3, Need to Upgrade ID?
            Saskatchewanobie Level 2

            I have gone to the 'Printer...' which gives me the selection of the Epson printer and also shows the Duplex option under 'Output Options', however, once I choose 'Print' from that dialog box, it sends me back to the regular InDesign dialog for Print, and when I then select print from there, it prints out two separate sheets rather than duplex. I have made the Epson printer my default printer.

             

            I'm not sure what I am missing...

             

            Ahh...

             

            It's Pre-Press work... Got it now, Thanks A MILLION!

            • 3. Re: Cannot print Duplex pages from CS3, Need to Upgrade ID?
              Peter Spier Most Valuable Participant (Moderator)

              Try this: Go back to the printer settings, set the duplex AND the page size options, the return to the ID dialog and set the page size to "Defined By Driver" and see if the settings stick.

              • 4. Re: Cannot print Duplex pages from CS3, Need to Upgrade ID?
                Peter Spier Most Valuable Participant (Moderator)

                And the fianl fallback position is to export to PDF, then print that. I do that a lot even though my printer works fines. It's almost always faster than printing direct from ID.

                • 5. Re: Cannot print Duplex pages from CS3, Need to Upgrade ID?
                  John Hawkinson Level 5

                  And the fianl fallback position is to export to PDF, then print that. I do that a lot even though my printer works fines. It's almost always faster than printing direct from ID.

                  Because...you have Optimized Subsampling turned off...because you have a Xerox printer with a broken PPD file so ID messes it up?

                   

                  It's ironic that exporting to PDF is basically like optimized subsampling, unless you turn off all the PDF compression...

                  • 6. Re: Cannot print Duplex pages from CS3, Need to Upgrade ID?
                    BobLevine MVP & Adobe Community Professional

                    How so? Optimized subsampling leaves InDesign in charge of what happens to the image. Exporting to PDF allows the user to make any changes to resolution and downsampling method.

                     

                    Bob

                    • 7. Re: Cannot print Duplex pages from CS3, Need to Upgrade ID?
                      John Hawkinson Level 5

                      I said "basically like" not "identical." There are certainly differences, yes.


                      (Though, of course, you may edit the PPD file to change the downsampling resolution target.)

                      • 8. Re: Cannot print Duplex pages from CS3, Need to Upgrade ID?
                        John Hawkinson Level 5

                        Sigh...though to hijack the thread some more, I guess probably the answer to my question above is "No," since Windows doesn't use PPD files for this, so there's some other mechanism that ID uses to determine the printer's resolution that may be similarly flawed? Or not. That makes me wrong again! :-)

                        • 9. Re: Cannot print Duplex pages from CS3, Need to Upgrade ID?
                          Peter Spier Most Valuable Participant (Moderator)

                          Because...you have Optimized Subsampling turned off...because you have a Xerox printer with a broken PPD file so ID messes it up?

                           

                          Yes I have  Xerox Printer, but no idea if the PPD is broken, and yes I have optimized subsampling turned off because failure to do so results in very crappy prints. I can export to High Quailty print and get great results prining out of Acrobat in a fraction of the time, and send the exact same image data, except that it's now jpeg compressed.

                          • 10. Re: Cannot print Duplex pages from CS3, Need to Upgrade ID?
                            BobLevine MVP & Adobe Community Professional

                            Optimized subsampling is a relic of the days of slow computers and printers. Why it's still there as a default setting is a mystery.

                             

                            Bob

                            • 11. Re: Cannot print Duplex pages from CS3, Need to Upgrade ID?
                              John Hawkinson Level 5

                              Umm, no it's not. (Here we go again, guys!)

                               

                              As long as files in ID are placed that are higher resolution than the

                              desktop output device, it makes perfect sense. And as long as ID has

                              correct information about the printer's capabilities, it should do no

                              harm. Unfortunately that's not precisely the case sometimes and furthermore

                              ID has some bugs in this regard (Recall this post: Optimized subsampling: bug and workaround).

                               

                              In fact, it's ever-more relevant today as people are using larger and

                              larger resolution images. Yes, desktop printers have gotten a lot

                              closer to offset resolution so the gain isn't quite s much, but it's

                              still no joke.

                               

                              I'd be curious if there really is a Xerox PPD file hidden under the

                              hood in the Windows Xerox/ID combination...

                              • 12. Re: Cannot print Duplex pages from CS3, Need to Upgrade ID?
                                BobLevine MVP & Adobe Community Professional

                                My $0.02 here.

                                 

                                Since I'm never, ever going to supply a native ID file to a printer, I see no sense in even printing the file from ID. So, I do what Peter does and export a PDF and print that.

                                 

                                It's fast and I can test the file that actually matters.

                                 

                                YMMV,

                                 

                                Bob

                                • 13. Re: Cannot print Duplex pages from CS3, Need to Upgrade ID?
                                  John Hawkinson Level 5

                                  Fair enough. I suppose you've probably scripted it, but our workflows involve a lot of looking at things on paper, and printing with Cmd-P is really fast (at least in keystrokes) and you don't have to leave the application. Since our laser printers are never going to match our output resolution, testing the exported file isn't an important criteria for us, except maybe at the end of the job. Oh, also, exporting to PDF does take non-neglible time (but, I suppose, you can argue, so does printing!).

                                   

                                  Maybe CS6 will have Background Printing and also DisableAsyncPrinting.txt for the inevitable.

                                   

                                  I suppose I should benchmark how long we do sit watching the Printing... box and measure that against the cost of building a scripting UI that talks to Acrobat for printing. Unless you want to share yours?

                                  • 14. Re: Cannot print Duplex pages from CS3, Need to Upgrade ID?
                                    Peter Spier Most Valuable Participant (Moderator)

                                    In my case the printing time difference is more at the printer itself than on the computer, which is to say that I'm not waiting for the file to spool, but for the printer to "process" the job. If can be anywhere from a few seconds to a few minutes faster to process the PDF, which frees up the printer for the next job.

                                     

                                    Yes, there's a real ppd file, EF3XP790.PPD in the spools folder. The only reference I see to resolution is the default resolution of 600 dpi. It also mentions a screen value of 200 (which I find a little ludicrous, if that's supposed to be 200 lpi). I'll send you the file if you want to look at it.

                                    • 15. Re: Cannot print Duplex pages from CS3, Need to Upgrade ID?
                                      John Hawkinson Level 5

                                      I'm not sure everyone reading this thread caught the subtlety: the spool time when you print from ID is in the foreground where you cannot work, whereas if you export to PDF that can happen in the background (for most of us), so it doesn't prevent work in ID.

                                       

                                      Your PPD file does not demonstrate the "Xerox problem" I was referring to -- indeed, as you note it has:

                                       

                                      *DefaultResolution: 600dpi
                                      ...
                                      *ScreenFreq: "200"
                                      

                                       

                                      So I draw a blank. My best guess is your problem is something else, or that InDesign isn't finding your PPD file. Since PPD files aren't [usually] the norm under Windows, well, I dunno.

                                       

                                      As for the linescreen question, see the PPD Spec but yeah:

                                      *ScreenAngle: “real
                                      *ScreenFreq: “real
                                      *DefaultScreenProc: spotOption


                                      These keywords provide the default halftone screen angle, frequency, and
                                      spot function, respectively. On Level 1 devices, these values are the angle,
                                      frequency, and proc arguments returned by the currentscreen operator after powering
                                      on the device. On Level 2 devices, only a type 1 halftone dictionary can
                                      be easily represented by these keywords. Therefore, if the value of
                                      *DefaultHalftoneType is 1, or if *DefaultHalftoneType is not present, these values are
                                      the Frequency, Angle, and SpotFunction entries in the default Halftone dictionary.
                                      If the value of *DefaultHalftoneType is anything other than 1, the values of
                                      *ScreenAngle, *ScreenFreq, and *DefaultScreenProc may be meaningless and application
                                      authors may not want to rely on them for anything important.


                                      Note

                                      To builders of PPD files: Although these are not required keywords,
                                      *ScreenFreq, *ScreenAngle, and *DefaultScreenProc should be present even for
                                      contone-only devices, because many applications have come to depend on
                                      their presence, even though their values may be useless on a particular
                                      device. You should assume that some applications will execute setscreen with
                                      the values provided by *ScreenFreq, *ScreenAngle, and *DefaultScreenProc. To prepare
                                      for this, if the value of *DefaultHalftoneType is anything other than 1, you
                                      should put reasonable values for angle, frequency, and spotOption in the keywords
                                      above. If you don’t know what values to use, try 45 for angle, 60 for
                                      frequency, and Dot for spotOption, and make sure that *ScreenProc Dot is defined in
                                      the PPD file.

                                       

                                      I don't know if its completely ludicrous though. 1200dpi/220lpi is something I think of as normal, as is 300dpi/60lpi, your printer is 600dpi so 200dpi seems high but no more than 2x as high as what might be reasonable... "It's only off by a factor of two, the engineer said."

                                      • 16. Re: Cannot print Duplex pages from CS3, Need to Upgrade ID?
                                        Peter Spier Most Valuable Participant (Moderator)

                                        I haven't actually measured recently, but my memory is that somewhere around 100 is a lot more accurate. It's not as good as most commercial litho, which tends to be 150 lpi.

                                         

                                        None of this, of course, has the least bit to do with the original question...

                                        • 17. Re: Cannot print Duplex pages from CS3, Need to Upgrade ID?
                                          Peter Spier Most Valuable Participant (Moderator)

                                          John Hawkinson wrote:

                                           

                                          I'm not sure everyone reading this thread caught the subtlety: the spool time when you print from ID is in the foreground where you cannot work, whereas if you export to PDF that can happen in the background (for most of us), so it doesn't prevent work in ID.

                                           

                                          Ive been doing this since long before background export was available, and in my experience, subjective as it is, the export time is usually comparable to, or perhaps slightly faster than the spool time to print, so you don't lose working time by doing it, and as I mentioned, the actual time to page out is immensely faster.