5 Replies Latest reply on Jun 8, 2011 9:04 AM by the_wine_snob

    Frame size discrepancies in project settings?

    Nohjekim Level 1

      Hi Guys

       

      I have some new information and some observations on my problems with getting full screen output.

       

      I looked through all the project settings and I noticed that the ones I was trying to use…

       

      HD 1080i (60i) and HDV 1080i 30 say that the output is at a16 to 9 ratio and have a frame size of 1440 by 1080i.

       

      This is the frame size or ratio, I kept trying to import.

       

      I finally realized that this isn't a frame size that is proportional to the image ratio that it lists.

      16 by 9 would really be proportional to 1440 by 810.

       

      The 1440 by 1080 video that I import using either of these,does not export full screen even if it’s exported the same size it comes in, i.e.1440 in and 1440 out.

       

      ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---------------------------------

       

      So I looked through the project setting for a selection where the stated ratio and the frame size matched.

       

      I found HDV 720p 30.

       

      16 by 9 at a 1280 by 720 frame size.

       

      This would be an easy size for my to work in.

       

      So I made a video at that size then loaded it into PE8 and it exported fine.

      Full screen no border.  In fact it comes out full screen no matter what size I export it.

      When I exported the same video at 1600 by 900 it exported full screen and looked fine.

       

      Then I went back and loaded the same 1280 by 720 video inthe HDV 1080i 30 settings.

      It also came out full screen with no border.

       

      So the problem is that as far as I can see the selection screen is wrong about the frame size for both the HD 1080i and the HDV 1080isettings.

      You really have to load in something at 1600 by 900 or proportional to that.

       

      And as far a I can find there is no setting that supports any thing other the wide screen except for the Standard 48kHz settings.

       

      It looks like unless you want to go to a wide screen format 720 by 480 is the only option.

       

      Now I’ll have to decide whether I want to do future projects wide screen or live with the restrictions on frame size.

      I hate to change horses in the middle of the stream so I may just stick with the smaller size for the Lucy videos but other projects I will do wide screen.

       

      Thanks again for all the help.

       

      Mike

        • 1. Re: Frame size discrepancies in project settings?
          Steve Grisetti Adobe Community Professional

          The 1920x1080 video frame uses square pixels to produce a 16:9 video image, Mike. The 1440x1080 video frame uses anamorphic (non-square pixels) -- pixels that are wider than they are tall -- to create exactly the same 16:9 video image.

           

          Resolution-wise, these two frames are identical and so are considered to be of the same resolution. And both will produce an output that is 16:9, assuming your project's settings matched your original video specs.

          • 2. Re: Frame size discrepancies in project settings?
            the_wine_snob Level 9

            Mike,

             

            As Steve points out, the two Frame Sizes are practically the same, with one exception: the PAR (Pixel Aspect Ratio). With 1920 x 1080, the format uses square pixels, with a PAR = 1.0. The 1440 x 1080 uses non-square pixels, with a PAR = 1.3333, so they are wider, than they are tal by a factor of 1/3.

             

            If you multiply 1440 x 1.3333, you will get very, very close to 1920.

             

            I know of no standard video format, that is 1440 x 1080, but with square pixels, i.e. PAR = 1.0. There might be one, but it is not a standard, of which I am aware.

             

            When one is working in an animation, video screen-cap program, or CAD program, it is very likely that they will be working with square pixels, so that what they see on their computer monitors, will be accurate, and the computer uses square pixels, hence a PAR = 1.0.

             

            With HD material, I think that the only format using non-square pixels, is the 1440 x 1080 Anamorphic, detailed above. It is a bit of a hybrid, as non-square pixels are being phased out nearly everywhere, from computer monitors to HD TV's.

             

            The use of non-square pixels goes way back, as that was how things were designed for decades with CRT TV's, in both NTSC and PAL. Everything was 4:3 back then, and 16:9 did not come about, until right at the end of CRT's (they are not gone completely, but probably soon will be). Then, the 16:9 was created from 720 x 480 (NTSC) by bumping UP the PAR from basically 0.9 to 1.2. About the time that Widescreen SD began to catch on, the world started going to HD. As long as one is doing SD output, say to DVD-Videos, non-square pixels will be with us. When those output formats become passe, then I feel that the 1440 x 1080 will also go the way of the dodo, and we will be standardized on square pixels. Then, if we could just get NTSC and PAL to gather up, regarding the FPS...

             

            Hope that helps,

             

            Hunt

            • 3. Re: Frame size discrepancies in project settings?
              Nohjekim Level 1

              Hi Guys

               

              Ok, I think I get it at last.

               

              So when I create a 1440 by 1080 file, to use in the 1080i format, it should change the PAR from 1 to 1.333 when I create it, but since I can't control that I get an image that is too small, even though the pixel size is the same.  The aspect ration should still end up 16 by 9.

               

              So since Poser creates everything with a PAR of 1, my only option if I want a wide screen video is to actually pick a 16 by 9 ratio when I output it and ignore the listed frame size.

               

              I still don't quite get why the image is both shorter and narrower, it seems like it should only be narrower but I'll live with it.

               

              And there is no way to make PE8 output a full height image in the wide screen format that is 3 by 4 except to drag it larger in the preview window.

              And there is no advantage in doing that since I'm still using a 16 by 9 window and getting the file size that goes with it.

               

              So if I want to work in a 3 by 4 format then the Standard 48kHz format it the only option.

               

              Well at least I know what to do next time.

              That should save a lot of time.

               

              I may just give up and go to 16 by 9 and quit fighting it.

               

              Thanks again.

               

              Mike

              • 4. Re: Frame size discrepancies in project settings?
                luvsfotos Level 1

                This question is from some other forum member. Don't know why they're linked to my e-mail address.

                 

                Fran (luvsfotos)

                > Date: Tue, 7 Jun 2011 22:22:36 -0600

                From: forums@adobe.com

                To: corneliusfran@msn.com

                Subject: Re: Frame size discrepancies in project settings?

                 

                 

                Hi Guys

                 

                Ok, I think I get it at last.

                 

                So when I create a 1440 by 1080 file, to use in the 1080i format, it should change the PAR from 1 to 1.333 when I create it, but since I can't control that I get an image that is too small, even though the pixel size is the same.  The aspect ration should still end up 16 by 9.

                 

                So since Poser creates everything with a PAR of 1, my only option if I want a wide screen video is to actually pick a 16 by 9 ratio when I output it and ignore the listed frame size. 

                 

                I still don't quite get why the image is both shorter and narrower, it seems like it should only be narrower but I'll live with it.

                 

                And there is no way to make PE8 output a full height image in the wide screen format that 3 by 4 except to drag it larger in the preview window.

                And there is no advantage in doing that since I'm still using a 16 by 9 window and getting the file size that goes with it.

                 

                So if I want to work in a 3 by 4 format then the Standard 48kHz format it the only option.

                 

                Well at least I know what to do next time.

                That should save a lot of time.

                 

                I may just give up and go to 16 by 9 and quit fighting it.

                 

                Thanks again.

                 

                Mike

                >

                • 5. Re: Frame size discrepancies in project settings?
                  the_wine_snob Level 9

                  Fran,

                   

                  You are getting e-mail notifications from the Adobe Forum. It looks like you have possibly set your E-Mail Notification to the entire Forum, so everytime that someone responds to any post in this forum, you get notified.

                   

                  In another thread, John T. Smith, furnished your link, but in case you do not see it, I'll post it again: E-Mail Notification Settings. All you need to do is set your E-Mail Notifications (remember - there are at least two different places, where you can apply the settings, so look in both).

                   

                  Good luck,

                   

                  Hunt