19 Replies Latest reply: Jul 12, 2011 12:20 PM by Noel Carboni RSS

    Calling Sony Bravia HD TV owners with photoshop

    Envirographics Community Member

      Hi.

       

      Sony Bravia has a problem with Photoshop !

       

      If a jpg is created in photoshop, 1920 x 1080 pixels,  72dpi, it wont play on a Sony Bravia TV via USB stick.

      However it will play on a Panasonic HD TV and on a Samsung, so why is Bravia refusing them.

      Furthermore it displays thumbnails ok, just wont play them full size !

       

      If it is created in camera and loaded onto a PC then onto USB it will play on the Bravia.

      Both were Adobe RGB colour space so it cant be that.

       

      Any idea why ?

       

      Standard or Optimised or Progressive, they all fail !

      Gaps in file name or length make no difference.

      unless its file extension .JPG or .jpg or perhaps .jpeg or .JPEG

       

      I used CS2.

       

      Basically anyone with a Sony Bravia and using Photoshop has a big problem here. Works ok on Samsung and Panasonic.

       

      Means no ability to play my photos on a friends Bravia. Also means I wont be buying Sony !

       

      I have seen mention of this by others on the internet. All shops tried so far exhibit this problem.

       

      For those that experience this, whats happening ?

       

      Envirographics

        • 1. Re: Calling Sony Bravia HD TV owners with photoshop
          Tech_Explorer

          I also had this issue and after some hit and try have found the solution to this problem:

           

          If you choose "Save for Web and devices" and then choose the preset named "JPEG Medium" it will show up on Sony Bravia TV's. Looks like Sony TV's do not like "High Quality" jpg images

          • 2. Re: Calling Sony Bravia HD TV owners with photoshop
            Community Member

            Can you confirm that the issue is related to the compression level and not the simple fact that SFW strips out meta data that might be confusing the Bravia?

             

            Choosing File Menu->Save As would include meta data that might confuse the Bravia.

             

            When in doubt of JPG output, choose Save for Web instead of File Menu->Save As.

            • 3. Re: Calling Sony Bravia HD TV owners with photoshop
              Tech_Explorer Community Member

              I am not too sure but the fact is that when I chose SFW and choose a lower compression (Better quality) it still does NOT show on Bravia TV so it must have something to do with compression I assume.

              • 4. Re: Calling Sony Bravia HD TV owners with photoshop
                Noel Carboni Community Member

                Hate to say it, but this is a pretty strong indication that the Sony Bravia is the unit with the problem...  Have you checked to see if there's any kind of firmware update available for it?  Have you contacted Sony on the issue?

                 

                -Noel

                • 5. Re: Calling Sony Bravia HD TV owners with photoshop
                  Tech_Explorer Community Member

                  Yes firmware of my TV is up to date. Also other users have also reported this issue in other forums:

                   

                   

                  Check these:

                   

                  http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/readflat.asp?forum=1006&message=38386544&changemode=1

                  http://forum.tvmobili.com/viewtopic.php?f=11&p=4381

                  • 6. Re: Calling Sony Bravia HD TV owners with photoshop
                    Envirographics Community Member

                    I can update things a bit, shop owner has tried a lower compression setting q5 and it now displays, but who wants to use photoshop to improve a photo then louse it up with a compression setting that may see artefacts around edges etc ?

                     

                    Those straight from a digital SLR display fine, and they are higher quality than Q5.

                     

                    A bravia model back earlier this year, without latest firmware, plays the images ok, latest ones do not.

                     

                    File extension jpg or jpeg or caps makes no change, not tried sRGB v AdobeRGB though.

                     

                    Envirographics

                    • 7. Re: Calling Sony Bravia HD TV owners with photoshop
                      Oscar Blanco

                      I recently purchased a 46" Bravia LED (model KDL-4EX620).

                       

                      At work I had downloaded some really cool double screen wallpapers (2560x1024). All are jpg files, and I thought it would make a cool slide show with mellow music for my wife and I to enjoy while chatting over dinner and enjoying a glass of wine.

                       

                      I was surprised when the TV showed some images, and with others I just got a black screen with the message of "Image cannot be displayed".

                       

                      I looked up information on this, and found a couple of forums (all with recent replies) that mentioned the problem with newer Bravia TV's and they related it to manipulation in apps like Photoshop.

                       

                      I used PS for a living, and I'm very familiar with JPEG format images, since I've been doing web desing since the mid 90's.

                       

                      I'm very used to looking at JPEG as a standard, that should have no display problems, specially with recent technology!

                       

                      I am aware though, that specially digital cameras, won't accept edited images to be displayed along with the originals on memory cards. Once edited, they will not show up on the camera's LCD.

                      I never really looked into this, and accepted it as a fact of life, so to speak.

                       

                      But this issue with the TV really peaked my interest.

                       

                      After chatting with SONY's support, I was pointed in the direction of a technical spec. listed on the TV model's details:

                       

                      "- JPEG (JPEG format files with the extension “.jpg” and conforming to DCF 2.0 or Exif 2.21)"

                       

                      And I'm not entirely sure about this, but it seems it's related to the aforementioned issue with edited images on a Camera.

                       

                      Somebody here mentioned SRGB, vs Adobe's RGB.

                       

                      I decided to make a test.

                       

                      Using PS CS3, I ran ALL the images in the folder of the USB drive I had stuck into the TV for the slide show. The script is a standard script in the File menu of PS CS3: File/Scripts/Image Procesor...

                      Saving the images as JPEG, making sure I selected SRGB and maintaing ICC profile.

                      I re-saved all the images with this method, which in fact reduces file size (I guess it's not very lossless).

                       

                      Presto, now NONE of the images display on the TV!!!

                       

                      hehehehe, I guess it's a good thing, since it does relate PS as a culprit clashing with the DCF 2.0 or Exif 2.21 requirements the TV lists.

                       

                      NOW... the question is, CAN I save from PS under that JPEG profile? Will I need a third party app? an additional plugin? any other apps you can think of?

                      There's a rather cheap option, but I'm not going to buy it just yet, until I find out that I can defenitely NOT use PS for this. I mean, c'mon, shouldn't a MUCH more expensive app be able to conform to standards fromt he 90's???

                      I know I can't change the TV's requirements, updating the firmware will not solve something that SONY doesn't consider a bug. It's a standard after all.

                      • 8. Re: Calling Sony Bravia HD TV owners with photoshop
                        Noel Carboni Community Member

                        At least one person up-thread has pointed out that the compression level has something to do with it.  Did you try saving the images from Photoshop using a higher compression level (lower quality)?

                         

                        What if you save them from an application like IrfanView?

                         

                        -Noel

                        • 9. Re: Calling Sony Bravia HD TV owners with photoshop
                          Noel Carboni Community Member

                          Oh, and by the way, you do know that the newer versions of Photoshop (e.g., CS5) have been made more standards compliant (speaking about EXIF here, specifically), right?

                           

                          I know Chris Cox often has to answer questions about why older apps that don't read EXIF properly no longer work with files that have been output from Photoshop CS5.

                           

                          Perhaps you just need to upgrade to a modern version of the editor.

                           

                          -Noel

                          • 10. Re: Calling Sony Bravia HD TV owners with photoshop
                            Oscar Blanco Community Member

                            Thanks for the reply.

                             

                            Right now I'm not looking to dish out the cash for an upgrade just to be able to view the images on my TV.

                            The compression is actually pretty high. The folder size went from around 480MB to around 160MB. It seems the script was made to use a low quality output.

                             

                            Any other suggestions besides paying for a newer version of PS? Any addons? Filters? Specific setting on saving for web?

                            • 11. Re: Calling Sony Bravia HD TV owners with photoshop
                              Noel Carboni Community Member

                              160MB?  How many images?  I wonder whether you may be exceeding the capacity of whatever processor they have in the TV.

                               

                              As far as the compression level, from what I recall the Image Processor script allows you to set the JPEG quality, no?

                               

                              Honestly, it seems to me three hundred KB or so per image should provide more than enough image quality for display at that size.

                               

                              -Noel

                              • 12. Re: Calling Sony Bravia HD TV owners with photoshop
                                Noel Carboni Community Member

                                Out of curiosity, do either or both of these high detail images display properly?

                                 

                                Both are saved with the sRGB IEC61966-2.1 profile from Photoshop CS5.

                                 

                                One is saved with a lot higher quality setting than the other, yielding 1 MB and 300 KB image sizes.  Assuming both do display, I'm curious whether you can see a significant difference between them on the TV monitor.

                                 

                                http://Noel.ProdigitalSoftware.com/temp/MountTeide_1920x1080.jpg

                                 

                                http://Noel.ProdigitalSoftware.com/temp/MountTeide_1920x1080_Small_File.jpg

                                 

                                -Noel

                                • 13. Re: Calling Sony Bravia HD TV owners with photoshop
                                  Oscar Blanco Community Member

                                  307 images.  Average size around 600k.

                                  • 14. Re: Calling Sony Bravia HD TV owners with photoshop
                                    Oscar Blanco Community Member

                                    Interesting Noel. The small file displayed just fine. The large one got the error message.
                                    Besides the obvious file size, any other diferences?

                                    • 15. Re: Calling Sony Bravia HD TV owners with photoshop
                                      Noel Carboni Community Member

                                      Nope, just saved with different levels of compression.

                                       

                                      -Noel

                                      • 16. Re: Calling Sony Bravia HD TV owners with photoshop
                                        Mike V

                                        Bravias only support JPEG YCbCr 4:2:2 or 4:2:0 formats.

                                        JPEG YCbCr 4:4:4 is not supported.

                                         

                                        In Photoshop you can't select this directly, but you can indirectly.

                                         

                                        At low levels of JPEG compression (i.e. higher quality), Photoshop saves in YCbCr 4:4:4 i.e. No Chroma Sub Sampling.

                                         

                                        Some levels of JPEG compression in Photoshop will convert the image to 4:2:0.

                                         

                                        For example, like someone has posted above, Save for Web Medium Quality is 4:2:0.

                                         

                                        I'm not sure if Photoshop can produce 4:2:2.

                                         

                                         

                                         

                                        • 17. Re: Calling Sony Bravia HD TV owners with photoshop
                                          Envirographics Community Member

                                          Mike V,

                                          Thanks for the 'eureka' moment for those of us bashing heads against walls on this.

                                           

                                          So having used photoshop to bring the best out in the photo, we have to crap it up with a lower quality jpeg setting so as to get pshop to use 4:2:0 format so that the latest Bravias are able to display it.

                                           

                                          Come on Sony, if Panasonic and Samsung are capable of displaying 'any' save from photoshop, why do you guys have to have the photos given aberations and a lower quality to handle them ? I have not just spent hours on tweaking my photos to want to do that to them.

                                           

                                          I certainly won't be buying Sony.  I do not want to have to make up a second set of photos and apply compression to them just so that Sony Bravias can display them. Bravias earlier this year had no problem, well certainly one I tried, the 302 26inch, so what have Sony done to the 320 to change things.

                                           

                                          Sony's loss, go get a panny or sammy.

                                           

                                          In fact I havent seen a TV image on a Sony I like yet, soft if not non existent detail in faces, (non HD broadcast) , a samsung of a few yrs vintage viewed at a friends house on the same channels was far better, superb detail.

                                           

                                          Envirographics

                                          • 18. Re: Calling Sony Bravia HD TV owners with photoshop
                                            Oscar Blanco Community Member

                                            Thanks so much for clearing this up Mike!

                                             

                                            So, I'll just save web quality at 50%, crappy images full of artifacts, and presto. I can have a crappy slide show hahahaha... in truth, the pics don't stay on the screen that long, and you're not stuck to the TV. IT's like billboard images, the resolution is crap, but stand far away enough, and the eye/brain takes care of the artifacts.

                                             

                                            In any case, I'm gonna try it. Saved all images here at work at 50% web quality. I'll let you know how it went.

                                            Not gonna get rid of my new tv just because of image quality display, after all, it's a TV, and video looks awesome on it.

                                             

                                            Thanks again Mike.

                                            • 19. Re: Calling Sony Bravia HD TV owners with photoshop
                                              Noel Carboni Community Member

                                              I'd also suggest experimenting with File - Save As as well (note:  not Save for Web & Devices) and choose quality levels and test to see what is the highest one the TV will accept.

                                               

                                              The subsampling IS part of the reason for the visual degradation, though, so its anyone's guess whether you can achieve "good enough'.

                                               

                                              -Noel