17 Replies Latest reply on Jun 17, 2011 10:44 AM by ECBowen

    Gutting My System  - Need Advice on Components

    alexdejesus Level 1

      I just purchased Prod Prem CS 5.5 upgrade from CS4, so my 3 year-old computer isn't going to cut it. I picked up some components at Fry's yesterday:

       

      Intel Core i5-2500k                     $180

      ASUS P8P67 Pro B3               $175

      ASUS GTX 570                         $360

      4 x 4 GB RAM DDR3 Kingston    $180

      850W Pwr Supply Thermaltake    $130

      3 TB Barracuda XT      $ 250 for storage (I will keep my existing 2 x 500GB RAID 0 for system drive)

       

      Not counting hard drive, I'm happy to have a new computer for under $1,000. However, looking at the new benchmarks, it seems I could do a better. For example, I could go with an i7 2600k processor for under $100 more. My question is: how can I improve this configuration if I had, say another $200-300 to spend (not including hard drives)?

       

      I currently work with HDV footage mostly. I also have a Matrox MX02 Mini attached.

        • 1. Re: Gutting My System  - Need Advice on Components
          Harm Millaard Level 7

          My condolences .

           

          For that budget, get an i7-2600K. An i5 just does not cut it.

          • 2. Re: Gutting My System  - Need Advice on Components
            Bill Gehrke Adobe Community Professional & MVP

            1.. Yes CPU is the king to successful performance, if you can return it and get the i7-2600K.

            2.  Also I do not like R0 for the OS and applications  You will not see any application performance improvement only a slight decrease in booting and opening new applications. Use one 500 GB drive as boot drive with OS and Applications and the other for Paging and caching

            3.  Return the 3 TB disk and get for the same price 4 each 1 TB drives and RAID 0 those drives into two separate arrays.  One for your project and one for your output files.

            • 3. Re: Gutting My System  - Need Advice on Components
              alexdejesus Level 1

              Yeah, the processor was pretty much a given. Do you see any other improvements I can make? If I had $200 more to throw at the system, where should it go? I saw in another post that the Thermaltake PS is pretty much garbage.

               

              I don't see much about my motherboard in the Benchmark. Is it because it's too new? Is it the best of the 1155 MB's? A jump to the Rampage III is feasible moneywise.

               

              Please explain this from the link: http://ppbm5.com/News.html

              "First Sandy Bridge results are here

              The first Sandy Bridge results with the i7-2600K CPU have arrived. As expected, the i7-2600K is a nice performer, but requires massive over-clocking to perform about the same as the more affordable i7-920/930/950. Still, the platform is severely handicapped by the lack of PCI-e lanes on the P67 motherboard, which prevents the installation of a raid controller. A very serious drawback for video editing.

              The initial conclusion is: Very nice, but not something to get excited about."

               

               

               

              On one hand, it's a "nice performer" but then it says "severely handicapped." Which is it? You told me to go with the i7-2600. Acording to this, I would be better with a i7-920/930/950. And I have the P67 Pro MB. I'm confused. Should I go P68 or something else?

               

              Message was edited by: percoplus

              • 4. Re: Gutting My System  - Need Advice on Components
                RjL190365 Level 4

                Hi,

                 

                It was me who stated that the particular $130 "850w" Thermaltake PSU is a total piece of garbage. It can't deliver even 600W, let alone 850W, under realistic operating conditions. In fact, Thermaltake did not even design that PSU, let alone manufacture it: It is an off-the-shelf HEC/Compucase PSU that is not one of its "better" designs at all. And the platform that it's based on is garbage, as well: It produces severely out-of-spec ripple when pushed above about 550W.

                 

                As for the LGA 1155's limitations, they could potentially prevent you from using a dedicated hardware RAID card and many of the high-end video I/O cards in that same system.

                • 5. Re: Gutting My System  - Need Advice on Components
                  Harm Millaard Level 7

                  You quoted the text, but did you read it? The CPU is good, the PLATFORM, meaning the motherboard and its chipset, are severly handicapped. Reread that text and you may grasp it.

                  • 6. Re: Gutting My System  - Need Advice on Components
                    alexdejesus Level 1

                    Let me ask first - Is "Sandy Bridge" synonymous with socket 1155 chipset and P67 MB?

                     

                    I read it. It tells me that the i7-2600 is a good processor , but the platform is severely handicapped and needs to be massively overclocked to "perform about the same as the more affordable i7-920/930/950," which is another platform chipset. Did I get that wrong?

                     

                    I also get that the article is about bang-for-the-buck. I have not yet installed any of the components, and I ready to exchange any/all of them and throw in some extra cash to optimize within reason.

                     

                    Also, I have not yet decided to go with a RAID controller, but I'd like to have that option.

                     

                    @ Harm: in your first reply, you only referenced the CPU. What about the other items on my list?

                    • 7. Re: Gutting My System  - Need Advice on Components
                      Scott Chichelli Level 3

                      """read it. It tells me that the i7-2600 is a good processor , but the platform is severely handicapped and needs to be massively overclocked to "perform about the same as the more affordable i7-920/930/950," which is another platform chipset. Did I get that wrong?""""

                       

                       

                      yeah you got that wrong...

                      http://forums.adobe.com/thread/854514?tstart=30

                       

                      but Harm is right the 2600k is the one to get the 2500 is pretty weak

                       

                       

                      and this is a very very BAD idea... will keep my existing 2 x 500GB RAID 0 for system drive)

                      utterly pointless and very risky.

                      vastly slower than an SSD for an OS and they are pointless as well.

                       

                      Scott

                      ADK

                      • 8. Re: Gutting My System  - Need Advice on Components
                        Harm Millaard Level 7

                        Sandy Bridge uses a 1155 socket.

                         

                        Bill already mentioned the disks, which I wholeheartedly agree with. The Kingston memory may be 1600 or it could be 1333 DDR3. In the latter case have a look at Corsair Vengeance or Dominator 1600 memory.

                         

                        As Randall already mentioned, the platform for the i7-2600K is middle of the road, not the enthusiast line, which the X58 was back in the dark ages. Of course with technological progress the X58 is now somewhat comparable to the P68, with the exception of the number of PCIe lanes. That is where the P68 falls short. Does it matter to you? If you foresee that you will be using a dedicated raid controller, yes it will matter, because in that case you can only use your video card at half speed. Will you notice the difference in video performance? Yes, slightly. Want to use another PCIe card like AJA, Kona or Matrox, then you are in trouble with the P68 platform. If this does not apply to you, then the P68/i7-2600K is a very nice combination, that does deliver a nice BFTB (Bang-for-the-buck) ratio, especially if overclocked.

                        • 9. Re: Gutting My System  - Need Advice on Components
                          alexdejesus Level 1

                          I AM using a Matrox MX02 Mini.

                           

                          So, I should go with the x58 1366 MoBo - with a different CPU?

                           

                          @ Harm: What do you mean by "enthusiast line, which the X58 was back in the dark ages." You make it sound obsolete.

                          • 10. Re: Gutting My System  - Need Advice on Components
                            Bill Gehrke Adobe Community Professional & MVP

                            This fall the X58 will be obsolete when the new X79 chipset and the Sandy Bridge E LGA 2011 CPU's become available.

                             

                            The Matrox boards have caused major problems in the testing with PPBM5.  They cause problems with Disk intensive activities.

                             

                            The Dark Ages Harm was referring to was six to eight months ago.  We "Enthusiasts" are now impatiently waiting for the next generation

                            • 11. Re: Gutting My System  - Need Advice on Components
                              alexdejesus Level 1

                              So I'm stuck between obsolete X58 and future X79. What should I do?

                              • 12. Re: Gutting My System  - Need Advice on Components
                                alexdejesus Level 1
                                function(){return A.apply(null,[this].concat($A(arguments)))}

                                JCschild wrote:

                                 

                                """read it. It tells me that the i7-2600 is a good processor , but the platform is severely handicapped and needs to be massively overclocked to "perform about the same as the more affordable i7-920/930/950," which is another platform chipset. Did I get that wrong?""""

                                 

                                 

                                yeah you got that wrong...

                                http://forums.adobe.com/thread/854514?tstart=30

                                 

                                but Harm is right the 2600k is the one to get the 2500 is pretty weak

                                 

                                 

                                and this is a very very BAD idea... will keep my existing 2 x 500GB RAID 0 for system drive)

                                utterly pointless and very risky.

                                vastly slower than an SSD for an OS and they are pointless as well.

                                 

                                Scott

                                ADK


                                @ Scott: What do you mean I got that wrong?  I quoted the post verbatim.

                                 

                                And also, Scott, you seem to contradict what Harm and Bill say about using RAID controller and Matrox card with the 1155 chipset. Please clarify. And what are you building at ADK to use with Matrox MX02?

                                • 13. Re: Gutting My System  - Need Advice on Components
                                  Scott Chichelli Level 3

                                  did you read the link? pretty much covers it all.

                                  and yes we are shipping SB systems wih capture cards

                                  bear in mind Matrox is still having some driver issues as well.

                                   

                                  Scott

                                  • 14. Re: Gutting My System  - Need Advice on Components
                                    alexdejesus Level 1

                                    @ Scott: Yes, i read it. Here is what you said in that thread where you challenged Bill and Harm's assumptions:

                                     

                                    "but you can't add a Capture/preview card to P67!

                                     

                                    really? where did you hear this absurd fallacy? do you believe everything you read on the internet?

                                    we have shipped a huge amount of systems with Decklink, in them, a few Aja and a few matrox <-- driver issue not P67 issue.. same issue occurs on X58

                                     

                                     

                                    We are not talking about using all the slots only adding a 1X card

                                    16x is off the processor and isolated (assuming you only have a vid card) however there are generally 2 16x when adding something into the 2nd 16x is when that get reduced to 2x 8 electrical

                                    (Will have a definitive answer as to if adding a raid card into the other 16x will reduce video or drive ability in a day or so) tired of hearing about that as well..

                                     

                                    There is an additional 8 PCIe X1 off the south bridge if you will or PCH. An average board  looks like this.

                                    1) firewire

                                    2) GB Ethernet

                                    3) eSata

                                    4) PCIe to PCI bridge

                                    5) PCIe to USB3

                                    6,7,8) actual 1x slots

                                     

                                    Each 1x is capable of 5GB/s

                                    The DMI is 20GB/s

                                    That means 4 of the 1X can be active at full bandwidth at once, (where it seems people arrived at the 20 lanes) or all 8 at 1/2 bandwidth.

                                     

                                    Let me also remind you that I know of nothing that saturates the PCIe bus 100% not even raid cards (assuming an 8x or 4x slot) and certainly not a capture card.

                                    In various benchmark tests of PCI vs PCIe there were little to no difference in ability. (raid cards, capture cards, pro audio interfaces)

                                    All that to say again nothing uses the full bandwidth.

                                     

                                    Looking at all 8 PCIe 1x slots/connections I don’t see 4 being used simultaneously under any circumstance. Even adding a pro audio interface into the mix.

                                     

                                    So again adding a capture/preview card to the sandy bridge platform works 100% right and with 100% performance ability. (not counting the driver issues with matrox)

                                     

                                     

                                    But you can't add a raid card to P67!

                                     

                                    really?

                                    i am here to tell you yes you can and without using N200 chipset motherboard.

                                     

                                    we (well Slacker Eric, in his defense he has been swamped) finally tested this. i only asked since Jan/Feb.

                                     

                                     

                                    Adding an Intel RSBL080 8 drive raid controller see above test. not only did performance NOT decrease it increased, albeit a whopping 10 seconds.

                                    yes the video card was reduced to a paltry 8x and according to the bios only running @ 2.5 GB/s where the raid card showed a full 5GB/s

                                    yet there was no drop in cuda perfomance at all and all effects we use on our tests are cuda effects."

                                     

                                    ****************************************************************************************** *********************************************************************************

                                     

                                    ** Now Scott, this is in direct contradiction to what Bill and Harm said about the "severe" limitations of the SB platform. So who should I believe, you or them?

                                     

                                    Yesterday, in response to all of this, Matrox reassured me that there is no problem with their hardware and the SB platform, but they have not yet released the driver support for CS5.5. Either way, i am at a standstill. I need an answer.

                                    • 15. Re: Gutting My System  - Need Advice on Components
                                      Scott Chichelli Level 3

                                      Well now who you believe is entirely up to you!

                                       

                                       

                                       

                                      I am not here to win a pissing contest

                                       

                                      I ship a ton of systems a yr I graciously post benchmarks and findings not something I am required to do, other than to dispel myths and rumors.

                                       

                                      And I have yet to have anyone refute anything I have said with proof.

                                       

                                       

                                       

                                      Buy whatever it is you want  but I stand on this, have the benchmarks to prove it.. and the happy clients to back it up.

                                       

                                       

                                       

                                      ""So i cannot see nor justify any reason to continue buying an X58 platform unless you just like to spend $841 more for nothing!"""

                                       

                                       

                                       

                                      The only addendum I would add is IF you are doing mostly animation then the 990x due to having more threads would be better

                                      • 16. Re: Gutting My System  - Need Advice on Components
                                        alexdejesus Level 1

                                        @ Harm or Bill: There is a clear disagreement between you guys and Scott concerning the Sandy Bridge platform. You can chime in at any time to clear this up for credibility's sake. Otherwise, your benchmark is bogus.

                                        • 17. Re: Gutting My System  - Need Advice on Components
                                          ECBowen Most Valuable Participant

                                          The PPBM5 is not invalidated by this debate. The assumptions or ideas behind the SB platforms limitations are not really based on the PPBM5. They are based on the specs of the platform and the assumption the video card is using full bandwidth. It is not on most codecs right now as we have shown in our testing. What that means is you can limit more bandwidth on the PCI-E 16 the video card is in and not really effect the MPE engine right now. Also remember that the Codec of material decides allot of this. R3D would change the results considerably on this versus the codecs used by us in our benchmarks and the PPBM5. This is the most difficult concept in the current media content creation industry for people to understand. The manufacturers don't make it easier since they purposefully limit the information available and ensure it's far more vague than it should be. The information is also spread out among dozens of sites and without 1 place to research most or all. However the simplest way to understand it is the codecs decide the requirements and you need to know what material you are working and how it compares to other codecs. I have posted before in another thread, a breakdown of the codecs and what general platform is ideal for each series.

                                           

                                          Eric

                                          ADK

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