7 Replies Latest reply on Jun 29, 2011 7:55 AM by bvtd092

    indesign transparency multiply pdf/x-1a pdf/x-4 export pdf object not visible

    bvtd092

      Hello,


      I've created a simple Indesign cs4 document under osx demonstrating the problem. I've copied from an Indesign document a rectangle with a fill color 100% cyan and a transparency effect multiply and paste the object within a new created document. I've paste the same rectangle again and switched off the transparency effect. Then I've create a new rectangle again with the same fill color and multiply transparency effect.


      When I create a pdf with the standard pdf/x-4 settings the copied rectangle with the multiply transparency effect has disappeared, while the other 2 rectangles are visible. Creating a pdf with the standard pdf/x-1 settings in Indesign, then all 3 rectangles are visible.


      I've created a zip file named Indesign.zip with the following 3 elements:
      - multiply.indd - indesign document
      - pdfx1.pdf - export pdf with pdf/x1 settings (3 rectangles are visible)
      - pdfx4.pdf - export pdf with pdf/x4 settings (only 2 rectangles are visible)


      Opening the document with CS5 and creating pdf files, we obtain the same strange result.


      You can download the zip file from the following link:
      http://www.symeta.be/symeta/static/files/Indesign.zip


      How do we explain this peculiar problem?

       

      Regards,

        • 1. Re: indesign transparency multiply pdf/x-1a pdf/x-4 export pdf object not visible
          Peter Spier Most Valuable Participant (Moderator)

          The problem is that frame is corrupt, but I can't tell you why. When you delve into its properties using Acrobat preflight you see the bounding box listed with a 0 dimension:

          Untitled-1.png

          Changing the size of the frame seems to fix it, but then resizing back to original breaks it again.

          1 person found this helpful
          • 2. Re: indesign transparency multiply pdf/x-1a pdf/x-4 export pdf object not visible
            bvtd092 Level 1

            Peter,

             

            Is there a way detecting corrupt objects in Indesign? I found a recent indesign blog post (http://blogs.adobe.com/indesignpost/2011/03/24/quick-tip-how-to-fix-corrupt-indesign-files /) where they explain exporting the file to inx or idml and importing that file again. Still after doing that the peculiar problem persists.
            Can we consider this as a bug?


            Regards,

            • 3. Re: indesign transparency multiply pdf/x-1a pdf/x-4 export pdf object not visible
              Peter Spier Most Valuable Participant (Moderator)

              I don't know of any test for "corruptness" (if there was, I would think it would be in preflight automatically). I, too, tried export to .idml without success, and I have to say that I find .idml far less likely (based on the number of times I've been successful vs the number of times I have not) to clean up a mildly corrupt document than .inx was. This is too bad, but keep in mind that neither format was intended to do do any sort of file rescue, so whatever good happens as a side effect is a bonus.

               

              Having identified that thr frame in question has a problem, I would, as a pragamatist, just replace it and move on.

              1 person found this helpful
              • 4. Re: indesign transparency multiply pdf/x-1a pdf/x-4 export pdf object not visible
                John Hawkinson Level 5

                IDML files are human readable. If strange behavior persists across a round-trip through IDML, inspect the IDML of the object in question to see the problem. While you can unzip the regular IDML export, it is probably easier to just export the object in question as a snippet.

                • 5. Re: indesign transparency multiply pdf/x-1a pdf/x-4 export pdf object not visible
                  bvtd092 Level 1

                  Peter, John,

                   

                  If there is no solution finding corrupt objects before going to production (creating pdf files), then the problem is only detected when the job is printed! More important, if the corrupt object is located in an advertisement, then you customer wouldn't pay.

                   

                  To further investigate the problem I've create 2 snippets with the following names:

                   

                  - Snippet_Good_PDFx4_Result.idms (snippet of the object who's visible after conversion to pdf/x-4)
                  - Snippet_Wrong_PDFx4_Result.idms (snippet of the object who's not visible after conversion to pdf/x-4)

                   

                  You can download these snippets from the following link.
                  http://www.symeta.be/symeta/static/files/Snippets.zip

                   

                  When I replace the following 4 lines from the bad snippet:
                                              <PathPointType Anchor="0.21122640285165062 35298.673065771356" LeftDirection="0.21122640285165062 35298.673065771356" RightDirection="0.21122640285165062 35298.673065771356"/>
                                              <PathPointType Anchor="0.21122640285165062 35440.40534923592" LeftDirection="0.21122640285165062 35440.40534923592" RightDirection="0.21122640285165062 35440.40534923592"/>
                                              <PathPointType Anchor="141.94350986741858 35440.40534923592" LeftDirection="141.94350986741858 35440.40534923592" RightDirection="141.94350986741858 35440.40534923592"/>
                                              <PathPointType Anchor="141.94350986741858 35298.673065771356" LeftDirection="141.94350986741858 35298.673065771356" RightDirection="141.94350986741858 35298.673065771356"/>
                                         
                  With the following 4 lines from the good snippet:

                   

                                              <PathPointType Anchor="154.96062992125985 161.1023622054882" LeftDirection="154.96062992125985 161.1023622054882" RightDirection="154.96062992125985 161.1023622054882"/>
                                              <PathPointType Anchor="154.96062992125985 302.8346456700551" LeftDirection="154.96062992125985 302.8346456700551" RightDirection="154.96062992125985 302.8346456700551"/>
                                              <PathPointType Anchor="296.6929133858268 302.8346456700551" LeftDirection="296.6929133858268 302.8346456700551" RightDirection="296.6929133858268 302.8346456700551"/>
                                              <PathPointType Anchor="296.6929133858268 161.1023622054882" LeftDirection="296.6929133858268 161.1023622054882" RightDirection="296.6929133858268 161.1023622054882"/>

                   

                  Then the result is ok!


                  The bad one has very strange coordinate values, such as 35298.673065771356 which is about 12452 mm! When placing the bad snippet in a new Indesign document the result is ok, just after converting to pdfx/4 the object isn't visible anymore!

                   

                  Who can justify this strange behaviour?

                   

                  Regards?

                  • 6. Re: indesign transparency multiply pdf/x-1a pdf/x-4 export pdf object not visible
                    John Hawkinson Level 5

                    So, a corrupt object is merely one whose parameters fail to meet expectations. It's very hard for InDesign's programmers to dream up all the ways in which this can happen. Imagine you created an IDML Snippet by hand and it imported it and it didn't realize the width of the box was crazy-high (no one thought to check).

                     

                    It's difficult to claim that it is a bug that InDesign doesn't detect corruption like this. It would certainly be desirable, but it's hard to find all the cases.

                     

                    Whatever caused the corruption probably is a bug, but that's almost impossible to know. If you can find a reproducible case that does it, then that's definitely a bug and you should report it.

                     

                    It's even conceivable that it was a disk error or something completely outside of InDesign's control.

                     

                    I'm not sure how much of your question is rhetoric, and perhaps you are not a native English speaker? Anyhow, hopefully you have all the answers you need now? Or are there further questions?

                    • 7. Re: indesign transparency multiply pdf/x-1a pdf/x-4 export pdf object not visible
                      bvtd092 Level 1

                      John,

                       

                      Unfortunately, this type of error is not reproducible, so we can't report that as a bug. Fortunately, these problems are not common, just annoying as they arise, but can be costly for the company if no solution exists for the early detection of these errors.
                      The only thing we could ask Adobe to provide a solution (within Preflight), detecting such problems in an earlier stage.

                       

                      Thanks to all to manage the problem!

                       

                      Regards,