Harm,
I have been wanting to reply to your question earlier, but my Forum account was disabled and still is – hence the full stop next to my screen name.
Thankyou for your reply - I appreciate it.
You asked me to explain a matter. Please bear with my following writings if I repeat things – I try to explain as best as I can within my scarce spare time.
This is a LONG post, and my final post in Adobe Forums (besides my two replies to post #2 and post #3,) unless a further question is asked to me in this thread, or besides replying to thank a participant to close this matter, and unless maybe if a Forum for Dummies and Slowies pop up. I do not expect you to read this entire post, because it is a LONG post and I respect your time.
Please be at peace that elsewise I will NOT participate any further in this Forum, in prevention of having a salesperson reply to my hardware related question(s) and I, unware of such person being a salesperson, reply to that person with a question or my view, and then be informed that I was 'bugging' that person and expecting things from that person which I should pay that person for (I refer to the link and quote below in this post) - I cannot tell beforehand whether or not a salesperson will reply to a post, and I cannot know beforehand that such person is a salesperson until such is specified, and I cannot know beforehand that I am to pay such person for replies until such is specified.
If I upset people with my posts, and my latest apologies, it was truly not my intention to do so.
I am sad to withdraw from this Forum, because there are kind people who helped me much in this Forum.
I hereby thank all the participants who were patient enough to help me learn much, especially you, Harm – I learned the most from you and your advice and answers steered me to discover many valuable things that will help me much in time to come.
I value your time, effort and kindness spent on me.
I admire the way you replied to me.
Thankyou for taking the time to post me the “English Lesson”. I enjoyed that very much!
Yet I still wonder why, if people from Poland were called, Poles, people from Holland weren't called, Holes.
It is people like you that make the world a better place – you even wrote, “However, if I offended you, ..., I apologize.”. This made me hang my head, because I did not intend you and your reactions at all - I did not write the names of the people whose posts I wrote about in my thread here, so I am sorry if you felt uncertain whether or not I intended you and your reactions.
Please be assured that you have NEVER in any way offended me. On the contrary you have helped me in the best ways and with much patience and kindness.
The things that you taught me in your replies to me, and in your articles, are priceless and if my memory doesn't fail me I will never forget that I learned so much from you (for free). Thankyou.
You are a roll model from whom we can learn much.
I appreciate your honesty.
I appreciate your polite critisism.
I appreciate the way you write with kindness and humility.
I can learn from that.
You are a true example of a wise leader.
PS. No need to plaster the forum with all your message to the same post.
Yes, I see that now. I learned from post #2 above that by adding a link at the end of my threads where my apologies and thoughts concerning this matter could be read, it was seen as “spamming”. My intention was to get my apologies and thoughts to whoever may have felt 'bugged' by me, explaining that my intention was NEVER to 'bug' anyone – yet, then by doing so, I've gone and plastered the forum, 'bugging' it. I apologise for “spamming”.
In reply to your question :
I do appreciate this post and the way to clarify your position, but fail to understand the relation to
conditional to purchase or payment.
Can you explain?
Thankyou for your appreciation. I try to explain below.
I view the following reply to me as conditional to purchase or payment.
Quoted from post no. 23 of Can you check my final setup? Two things not clear yet.
(I replaced the participants', who I write about here, real names with Mr. X, Mr. Y and Mr. Z.)
Mr. Z wrote to me :
Supercrawler,
[Mr.
X] is in business to build you the kind of system that you need and
then fully support you with that system. He would not be able
to stay in business if he fully designed your system and you built
it. ]Mr. X and Mr. Y are very valuble contributors here and we
all benefit from their experience, contributions here and opinions.
He has given you all that you could ask for and yet you keep bugging
him for decisions you have to make for yourself or pay him to do
for you.
I do not know how else to interpret the sentence,
“yet you keep bugging him for decisions you have to make for yourself or pay him to do for you.” than
I looked again, and I honestly could not find a post where I asked this salesman, Mr. X, to make DECISIONS for me. On the contrary I was NOT at all expecting Mr. X to make decisions for me.
I felt offended by the above post, because up until I read the above post #23, I was not made aware beforehand that if this salesperson replied to my posts, and I replied back with a question or a view, that I would have to pay this salesman. This salesman, Mr. X, of who the participant, Mr. Z, in the above quote wrote about, in fact never gave me the impression that his replies were conditional to purchase or payment.
THE FOLLOWING IS A SUMMARY OF WHAT ACTUALLY HAPPENED :
1. The Original Poster asked for suggestions concerning his setup.
He wrote,
“Hey guys, … Oh and please, if you have a suggestions to change something ...make it a suggestion with enough info to let me make a choice in the matter.”
As the OP did not specify whether or not he would need a harware controller, nor specified his source material, editing style, the nature of his timelines and the time pressure he is under with his projects, or how long he intends to use the system before upgrading to the next one,
I cared to share with him what I had learned, and replied to him with post #7 of Can you check my final setup? Two things not clear yet.
I merely shared my view to the Original Poster (NOT to the salesperson, Mr. X).
2. The salesperson, Mr. X, replied to my post, writing that the things I wrote in my post #7 was proved by him to be false.
So the next two days I read and studied those things again, for incase I read and learned it wrong.
3. In the meantime other participants and the salesperson, Mr. X, discussed the topic of my post #7.
4. After two days of studying the topic some more, I replied to the salesperson, Mr. X, in post #17,
explaining (including links) to him the reason why, by comparing his statement in his post #8 to me, “i have proven this to be false....”, to that which I have learned, I found difficulty as a newbie to understand his statement.
Therefore I asked the salesman, Mr. X, if their was a benchmark where I could view his tests that proved my learning in post #7 to be false,
because I did not find such proof in his thread, A big cup of "zip it" or the definative final P67 vs X58 answer thread.
In fact his writings in the aforementioned thread confirmed the quote which I posted in my post #7.
His writings in the aforementioned thread were :
“16x is off the processor and isolated (assuming you only have a vid card) however there are generally 2 16x when adding something into the 2nd 16x is when that get reduced to 2x 8 electrical”
and
“yes the video card was reduced to a paltry 8x and according to the bios only running @ 2.5 GB/s where the raid card showed a full 5GB/s”.
Therefore I found his words to me in his post #8, “i have proven this to be false....”, contradictory to his above writings in his aforementioned thread.
I just wanted to be clear whether or not I was mistaken by what I learned.
I never argued with him, and I never insisted that he had to answer me.
I also referred to his writings,
“Now in all fairless of disclosure the drive benchmarks dropped from our previous tests on X58 which is odd, we are guessing the video card as its ramping up would take bandwidth from the controller even though its supposed to be running 8x.”,
and I wrote,
“I am eager to learn which exact motherboard(s) was/were used when you ran those previous tests on X58”,
because I wanted to look at the board(s)'s available slots and lanes.
I never insisted that he had to reply me.
I also questioned his writings,
“we are guessing the video card as its ramping up would take bandwidth from the controller even though its supposed to be running 8x.”,
by asking,
“Supposing the video card took bandwidth from the controller, even though its supposed to be running 8x, why do you think it would do that as it's ramping up?”
I never insisted that he had to answer me.
I was merely interested in trying to understanding how things worked.
My questions were merely in consideration that he may have had a valid point, that he may have been right all along, in which case I would then have reconsidered buying the i7-2600K and its platform.
I NEVER discredited the i7-2600K and its P67 or Z68 platform – from what I researched on the internet, I explained why it made sense to me that for those who never needed a hardware raid controller and never needed a system for high-end video editing with large or complex projects and hectic multi-tasking, the i7-2600K and its P67 or Z68 platform would be nice.
5. The salesperson, Mr. X, replied to my post #17, writing, in post #18,
“i am not wasting my time answering your post..
...
... you had clear answers but still cant seem to read or understand.”
6. In my post #19 I thanked him for his reply and included a link to Videoguys Blog, where the writings by a person with the name Gary explained why Sandy Bridge is not recommended by Videoguys.
I included the Videoguys Blog link as a matter of SHARING what I have read, NOT to 'bug' anyone.
I never argued with the salesperson, Mr. X, and I never insisted that he had to reply to me.
7. In post #20, another participant replied to me, politely sharing his view regarding what he read from the Videoguys Blog link that I posted.
8. In post #21, the salesperson, Mr. X, replied to the latter person with a differing view.
9. Reading the differing views between him and the latter person, I remained uncertain about Mr. X's point,
so I asked him, in my post #22, which system/components he recommended for the needs described in the post, and wrote “I wont debate you, I will consider your recommendations”.
Perhaps I made the mistake of writing the word “buy” in the aforementioned post #22, actually meaning the system that I would BUILD with the components that I would buy, with reference to my earlier post #7 in the same thread, where I wrote, “I'm also in the process of planning my build.”.
10. In post #23 a top participant, Mr. Z, replied to me and wrote,
He
has given you all that you could ask for and yet you keep bugging him
for decisions you have to make for yourself or pay him to do for you.
Clearly I never asked the salesperson, Mr. X, anywhere to make decisions for me.
Clearly I did not 'bug' him to make decisions for me.
THE CONTRADICTORY STATEMENTS THAT CONFUSED ME :
Mr. X's writings in his post #8 to me:
“ """"but if you need a hardware raid controller, the platform “lacks the required PCI-e lanes to accomodate more than a 16 x PCI-e nVidia card with CUDA support to enable hardware MPE acceleration”, in other words, the PCIe lanes available for a slot1 installed video card drop from x16 to x8 when you add a x8 PCIe controller card. This applies to the
Z68 platform too.""""
i have proven this to be false.... "
Mr. X's writings in his original post in A big cup of "zip it" or the definative final P67 vs X58 answer thread) :
“16x is off the processor and isolated (assuming you only have a vid card) however there are generally 2 16x when adding something into the 2nd 16x is when that get reduced to 2x 8 electrical”.
and
“yes the video card was reduced to a paltry 8x and according to the bios only running @ 2.5 GB/s where the raid card showed a full 5GB/s”.
So I don't understand how I 'bugged' him by wanting to figure out these contradictions by asking if there was a benchmark which us newbies can view that demonstrated his proof that the PCIe lanes available for a slot1 installed video card DID NOT drop from x16 to x8 when a x8 PCIe controller card was added.
So, if I interpreted Mr. Z's post #23 to me incorrectly, then I AM a dummy indeed, and then, yet again, I apologize.
The salesperson did not let me know beforehand that he was a salesperson, nor that I was to pay him for his replies, nor that I was bugging him.
I thought that the salesperson replied to me as a participant who merely answered/commented on someone's post because he wanted to do so by his own free wil.
If, in his replies to me, he had made me aware from the start that he was a salesperson and that his replies were for money, or that he did not want to participate if asked questions or for suggestions, because he ran a business where his time was money to him, then I would not have replied to him with my views and questions.
I felt offended by the above post #23 because I NEVER asked nor bugged him to make any decisions for me.
I did make it clear beforehand that I was planning to BUILD a system myself, meaning NOT to buy a turn-key system, so I do not understand why, if it was true that this salesperson felt bugged by me, he would yet nevertheless post me posts, despite the fact that I made it clear that I was planning to BUILD my system.
If it was true, then
I wish the salesperson himself informed me earlier if he felt that I was bugging him.
I wish the salesperson himself informed me earlier if his motives were solely to gain a sale.
I wish the salesperson himself informed me earlier if he felt that I should pay him for his replies.
My apology to Mr. Z, in reply to post #23 quoted above, is in post no. 24 of Can you check my final setup? Two things not clear yet.
My apology to the salesperson, Mr. X, concerning post #23, is in post no. 25 of Can you check my final setup? Two things not clear yet.
Harm Millaard wrote:
I may be wrong about that, but you did show a tendency to repeat questions that had been answered in earlier posts. Might relate to the fact the English is not your/our native tongue.
I did repeat questions that I felt remained unanswered. I apologize if it was an irritation – hence my suggestion below for a Forum for Dummies and Slowies.
Harm Millaard wrote:
And yes, you earned your screen-name from the way you posted answers.
That's sad, but I take you seriously. I wish I understood which “way [I] posted answers”.
I suggest a special Forum especially for dummies and slowies, dedicated to computer video editing hardware related matters, so that whoever decides to reply to a dummy's or slowy's post, will know beforehand, “Here could come a really 'stupid' question, perhaps a real dummy or slowy who may take ages before they grasp something, or perhaps someone who may not understand English well” - this way the impatient people can rather not participate in the Forum for Dummies and Slowies.
It would be nice if such a Forum for Dummies and Slowies did not allow computer businesses to participate – for the purpose of preventing hijack and confusion by the pushing of sales.
Dit sal lekker wees as so 'n Forum vir Dommes en Stadiges, enige taal verwelkom, sodat iemand wat in die dom of stadige persoon se taal aan daardie dom of stadige persoon hulp wil verleen, dit in daardie persoon se taal kan doen. (Translated: It will be nice if such a Forum for Dummies and Slowies welcomes any language, to offer anyone who wants to respond to the dummy or slowy in the dummy's or slowy's language, the opportunity to do so.)
In return for your understanding, and your kindness, and the 'English Lesson',
There is no egg in eggplant nor ham in hamburger; neither ...
which I enjoyed very much, I share a short tale “The Emperor's New Clothes”, which you may know, at the following link.
http://deoxy.org/emperors.htm
Thankyou, Harm, for your priceless advice and help concerning Adobe related matters!
May you and your family have a LONG, happy, healthy, wealthy life!
I decided to stick to my choice of either getting the old school X58 platform or to wait for the Waimea platform (funds permitting).