15 Replies Latest reply on Jul 1, 2011 10:21 AM by Colin Brougham

    a few FCP to Pr questions

    Jim Curtis Level 3

      I'm wondering if there's a tutorial somewhere that highlights the differences between FCP and Pr, and has tips on quickly getting up to speed.

       

      Also, I'm perplexed about the red bar in the timeline.  I imported a couple of FCP sequences via XML, and my video won't play.  I can see it while parked.  One of the factors may be that I have 1080 ProRes footage in a SD NTSC widescreen comp.  FCP will play this footage, while dropping frames.  But, Pr seems to not want to play it at all.

       

      I'm also a bit confused by the Sequence Settings, and the separate Preview Settings options.  I'm presuming these are similar to the Sequence Settings > Codec in FCP, but changing them up doesn't seem to have much effect on the play-ability of my footage.

       

      I have a Kona LHi on my system, with the latest 9.0.1 CP and Adobe drivers installed.  When I bring a 1080 sequence in with 1080 footage, it plays wonderfully. 

       

      But, I guess when mixing up frame and sequence sizes, I'll have to render a lot, yes?   Is that a factor of not having one of the super duper new graphics cards for the Mercury system?

        • 1. Re: a few FCP to Pr questions
          John T Smith Adobe Community Professional & MVP

          >red bar in the timeline

           

          That means your project does not match your video... the famous round peg in a square hole kind of thing

           

          See the 2nd post for a picture of the NEW ITEM pointer http://forums.adobe.com/thread/770072?tstart=0

           

          CS5 User Guides - online and PDF (see link in upper right corner at individual pages)
          http://blogs.adobe.com/premiereprotraining/2010/08/help-documents-for-creative-suite-5-pdf -and-html.html

          • 2. Re: a few FCP to Pr questions
            lasvideo Level 4

            From Todd Kopriva (Adobe)...

             

            " what do the colored bars mean?

            • green: This segment of the sequence has a rendered  preview file associated with it. Playback will play using the rendered  preview file. Playback at full quality is certain to be in real time.
            • yellow: This segment of the sequence does not have a  rendered preview file associated with it. Playback will play by  rendering each frame just before the CTI reaches it. Playback at full  quality will probably be in real time (but it might not be).
            • red: This segment of the sequence does not have a  rendered preview file associated with it. Playback will play by  rendering each frame just before the CTI reaches it. Playback at full  quality will probably not be in real time (but it might be).
            • none: This segment of the sequence does not have a  rendered preview file associated with it, but the codec of the source  media is simple enough that it can essentially be treated as its own  preview file. Playback will play directly from the original source media  file. Playback at full quality is certain to be in real time. This only  occurs for a few codecs (including DV and DVCPRO).

            Note the uses of the word probably above. The colors aren’t a  promise. They’re a guess based on some rather simple criteria. If you  have a fast computer, then a lot of things marked with red may play back  in real time; if you have a slow computer, then some things marked with  yellow may need to be rendered to preview files before the segment can  be played in real time."

            • 3. Re: a few FCP to Pr questions
              Jim_Simon Level 8
              I have 1080 ProRes footage in a SD NTSC widescreen comp.

               

              While you certainly can do this, you may want to reserve that work flow for times you're mixing HD with SD.  If all you have is HD, Copy/Paste everything over to a new HD sequence, and worry about the resizing to SD during export.

              • 5. Re: a few FCP to Pr questions
                Jim Curtis Level 3

                Thanks for the replies.  I think I may have worded my post poorly.  So, I'll try to re-word it.

                 

                What I'm hoping for is more/better real-time performance.  The HD/SD business is for when my client shoots HD, but finishes SD.  I like to work in an SD Comp, because I can pan and scan the HD footage, and get what's equivalent to a 200-400% "blow up" simply by scaling the HD footage to 100% in the SD Sequence.

                 

                So, here is where scaling on output doesn't help.  I need to get my clients to sign off on an offline before I take the project to AE for "on-line." 

                 

                (I suppose a workaround would be to work at the footage native res, and blow up to 400% in the HD comp, and then reverse engineer the whole program in AE in SD.  But that is very labor intensive.)

                 

                What I'm seeing in Pr that I don't see in FCP, is that I have to render everything in the SD Comp before I can watch it. 

                 

                That makes it pretty darn hard to do any "creative editing," trimming, etc. if I have to stop to render all the time.

                 

                In FCP, the resolution is dynamic, and will drop frames or be fuzzy, but it will play in real time.  And then I can render the Sequence to get it to play in full rez. 

                 

                Even if I set my Pr Playback Resolution to 1/2 (The lower resolutions are grayed out.), I still don't get real-time playback.  Some times, I get 1 FPS.

                 

                My ProRes footage is all on a roughly 300 MBs RAID, so I don't think this isn't a drive issue.  So, that's why I'm asking if any of the Settings can improve my real-time performance.

                • 6. Re: a few FCP to Pr questions
                  Jim_Simon Level 8
                  here is where scaling on output doesn't help.

                   

                  True, but the better work flow is to have the camera op shoot what needs to be shot in the first place, rather than have the editor assume the duties of a DP by trying to recompose the shot after the fact.  This will get you the better performance with PP (as well as less work per project for you as an editor).

                  • 7. Re: a few FCP to Pr questions
                    Colin Brougham Level 6

                    Jim,

                     

                    Are you seeing this in an AJA sequence preset, or an Adobe sequence preset? To get monitor out (which it sounds like you're doing), you need to use the AJA preset. Unfortunately, this has the negative side effect of defeating a lot of the realtime playback capabilities of Premiere Pro.

                     

                    Just to rule things out, if you are working in an AJA preset, try creating a similar Adobe sequence (no AJA) and copy and paste your edit into it. Playback any better?

                    • 8. Re: a few FCP to Pr questions
                      Colin Brougham Level 6

                      but the better work flow is to have the camera op shoot what needs to be shot in the first place, rather than have the editor assume the duties of a DP by trying to recompose the shot after the fact.

                       

                      O rly? Funny, I thought Jim was asking for advice on how to get Premiere working for his needs, not advice on how to run his business.

                       

                      The suggestion is nonsense; many of us shoot HD for SD or even web-only projects, and don't post in HD sequences. It's a completely legitimate workflow, thank you very much.

                      • 9. Re: a few FCP to Pr questions
                        lasvideo Level 4

                        Colin "Are you seeing this in an AJA sequence preset, or an Adobe sequence  preset? To get monitor out (which it sounds like you're doing), you need  to use the AJA preset. Unfortunately, this has the negative side effect  of defeating a lot of the realtime playback capabilities of Premiere Pro."

                         

                         

                        Walter Biscardi

                        That  has actually changed with the release of the Kona 9.0.1 drivers.   It's  now a part of the Mercury Engine scheme.   "This release updates AJA  Mac Plug-ins to support Adobe Premiere Pro CS5.5, Adobe After Effects CS  5.5, and Adobe Photoshop 5.1. AJA's new  KONA and Io Express Mac plug-ins for Adobe Premiere Pro CS 5.5 provide a  2x increase in real-time effects and video stream performance, taking  full advantage of Adobe's powerful Mercury Engine architecture. "
                        • 10. Re: a few FCP to Pr questions
                          Jim_Simon Level 8

                          I didn't say it wasn't legitimate, I said it's not as good as doing it right the first time (as is true for most things).

                           

                          Let the DP/Camera Op compose the shot, let the editor edit.  Less work (per project), more money (projects get done is less time, so more projects done per unit of time).

                           

                          See?

                          • 11. Re: a few FCP to Pr questions
                            Jim Curtis Level 3

                            True, but the better work flow is to have the camera op shoot what needs to be shot in the first place, rather than have the editor assume the duties of a DP by trying to recompose the shot after the fact.  This will get you the better performance with PP (as well as less work per project for you as an editor).

                             

                            Jeez, you're trying to cut me out of a living.  My specialty is making chicken salad.

                             

                            I do quite a few videos where the client shoots a bunch of interviews.  And when the b-roll is sparse or inappropriate, a nice solution is to use the extra resolution to cut from WS to CU and back to avoid jump cuts.

                             

                            I have a client who has a Steadicam on a gimbal on a Segueway.  It always comes back tilty, and needs rotation.  I could make a list of times where having res to spare is a boon.  Most of the peeps I know shooting RED 3 or 4K do it for the very reason of being able to Pan & Scan in post.

                            • 12. Re: a few FCP to Pr questions
                              Colin Brougham Level 6

                              Too bad Walter couldn't take the time to get the name of the technology correct: it's "Mercury Playback Engine."

                               

                              Unfortunately, it's pretty nebulous what they're talking about; it's just marketing speak. The fact remains, if playback is OK in a native Adobe sequence, then it's the AJA that's causing the issues.

                              • 13. Re: a few FCP to Pr questions
                                Colin Brougham Level 6

                                I didn't say it wasn't legitimate, I said it's not as good as doing it right the first time (as is true for most things).

                                 

                                The thing is that you're suggesting it's wrong; it's not. It's "right" if that's what you intend to do, and that's what Jim intends to do. I shoot 1080p to post in a 720p sequence all the time for event production--it works perfectly well because it's what I intend to do, and it's therefore the "right" solution for my situation.

                                • 14. Re: a few FCP to Pr questions
                                  Jim Curtis Level 3

                                  Colin:  Are you seeing this in an AJA sequence preset, or an Adobe sequence preset? To get monitor out (which it sounds like you're doing), you need to use the AJA preset. Unfortunately, this has the negative side effect of defeating a lot of the realtime playback capabilities of Premiere Pro.

                                   

                                  Just to rule things out, if you are working in an AJA preset, try creating a similar Adobe sequence (no AJA) and copy and paste your edit into it. Playback any better?

                                  Me:  I don't see any Adobe presets that are 720 x 486.  All the NTSC SDs, including DVCPro50 are 720 x 480.  The only 720 x 486 is AJA > SD > Uncompressed.  And that's the only one that will let me use the Kona.
                                  But, I just tried what you suggested - copying my Sequence and dropping it into an Adobe DV Widescreen Sequence, and it is now playing all frames in the Pr Sequence Panel.
                                  I guess that will get me through the offlines, and I can change my Comp to 486 in AE when I'm finished.  Or, I can copy my 480 Sequence, paste it into an AJA 486, and render, if I want to see it through the Kona.  That's a little Byzantine, but I guess it'll work.
                                  Thanks!
                                  Jim
                                  • 15. Re: a few FCP to Pr questions
                                    Colin Brougham Level 6
                                    I don't see any Adobe presets that are 720 x 486.  All the NTSC SDs, including DVCPro50 are 720 x 480.  The only 720 x 486 is AJA > SD > Uncompressed.  And that's the only one that will let me use the Kona.

                                     

                                    Jim,

                                     

                                    Not a problem: select one of the SD presets (doesn't matter which, but one close to your needs), and then click the Settings tab. Change the editing mode to "Custom," and then you can dial in the exact settings you need. Save it as a preset, and you can come back to it at any time to create a new fresh sequence. Here's what that looks like:

                                     

                                    custom.png

                                     

                                    "Custom" Editing Mode is your friend Obviously, you can tweak any parameter you need; you can also specific the default number and kind of tracks you need on the Tracks tab.

                                     

                                    But, I just tried what you suggested - copying my Sequence and dropping it into an Adobe DV Widescreen Sequence, and it is now playing all frames in the Pr Sequence Panel.
                                    I guess that will get me through the offlines, and I can change my Comp to 486 in AE when I'm finished.  Or, I can copy my 480 Sequence, paste it into an AJA 486, and render, if I want to see it through the Kona.  That's a little Byzantine, but I guess it'll work.

                                     

                                    As I suspected. There might be some settings as far as the AJA is concerned to tweak performance, but I don't know anything about that.

                                     

                                    Here's a bit of a ghetto workaround to quickly check output: after you create your Adobe-native sequence, create a new AJA sequence and drop the Adobe sequence into it (nesting, as it's known). You can work in the Adobe sequence, and then toggle over to the AJA sequence to check output. Obviously, you're still not going to get great performance, but for quick checking it'll probably be a lot faster than copying and pasting every time. In the meantime, it might be worthwhile checking with AJA if they have any optimization suggestions.

                                     

                                    I'm looking at an IO Express, myself, so I'm curious about how this all rolls out.