17 Replies Latest reply on Jul 3, 2011 1:59 PM by Jim_Simon

    Complete Multicam in CS6?

    Toomany3 Level 1

      I'm I like the diluted Final Cut fanboys that swear that Final Cut X will eventually have the features they need?

       

      I've sent in 10 feature requests since 6.5 about multicam.  I've even got my employees sending in the same requests.


      Adobe Premiere would be the PERFECT editor if it wasn't for one thing:  4 camera multicam limitation!  Why?  Why?!  Even the 2-year old Final Cut 7 could do more (64 or 128, can't rememrber).  Even Edius, a stripped down editor can do 16 I think.

       

      Dynamic linking to AE and PS is awesome.  MPE is great!  Adobe is awesome.


      But if Adobe wants to be taken seriously (and now's the time with the smart Final Cutters all jumping ship), Adobe desperately needs to add more multicam support!

       

      Is this something that's even on the agenda for CS6?  Or am I just holding on to hope?  PP is ahead of the curve in so many areas, but this one is totally lacking.

       

      Off topic, I feel the same way about the lack of a proxy render in PP, but I have some work arounds, but Mutlicam is a HUGE one!  There's no good viable work around for, say, 10 clips to sync up (which I do all the time).

       

      If you agree, please send your request to Adobe's feature request: https://www.adobe.com/cfusion/mmform/index.cfm?name=wishform .  Have your brothers, sisters, aunts, employees, bosses, ANYONE else send in the same request because I don't think Adobe is getting it.  Now's the time to take over the FCP guys and bring them on board, but they can't do it with old school "4-cam" support.

        • 1. Re: Complete Multicam in CS6?
          Toomany3 Level 1

          Oh, and while you're at it, the way Multicam handles audio needs to be repaired too.  It would be nice to tick on or off the audio layers you want to bring in, not just be limted to one layer of audio and having to find a work around later to bring in more.

          • 2. Re: Complete Multicam in CS6?
            dradeke Adobe Employee

            We definitely got it on multicam and know that this is something we need to improve.  More cameras is a must for certain people and we get it.

             

            That being said, our multicamera implementation is pretty good outside of that limitation.  FCP users have to resolve to a single codec type - meaning they could not make Camera 1 Red and Camera 2 Canon 5D.  Realistically, they have to make both ProRes 422HQ 1920x1080 before they can edit the material.

             

            We'll get there for you,

            Dennis

            • 3. Re: Complete Multicam in CS6?
              ExactImage Level 3

              Thanks for letting us know this Dennis - it's much appreciated.  I'm another one who needs more than 4 cams (though not as many as 10 ) and this is the one thing that's really holding things up in editing. 

               

              Sooner rather than later please

              • 4. Re: Complete Multicam in CS6?
                Toomany3 Level 1

                dradeke wrote:

                 

                We definitely got it on multicam and know that this is something we need to improve.  More cameras is a must for certain people and we get it.

                 

                 

                So does this mean we'll see it in CS6?  I would really love a direct answer to this since our firm is about to make a big switch for this reason alone.  If it's coming in CS6 we will stick it out with our current workflow and wait, but if not, we can't do this any more with Premiere. 

                 

                Is a better multicam to be seen in CS6?

                • 5. Re: Complete Multicam in CS6?
                  Colin Brougham Level 6
                  I would really love a direct answer to this...

                   

                  Really, don't hold your breath on this; Adobe folks won't and can't give a direct answer on what might or might not be coming in CSNext. Look at what happened with FCP X: here comes an application that would seemingly be far from complete, and then Apple promises, "Oh, yeah, we know... we're working on that. It'll be coming the second of someday."

                   

                  I'm a fan of Adobe software, but at the end of the day, if it didn't provide what I needed, I wouldn't hesitate to find another solution. I've been burned enough times (not by Adobe, necessarily) when I've hoped-and-waited for something that should have been coming, but did not. I'm just suggesting that you don't set yourself up for disappointment, particularly if your workflow is already hampered.

                  • 6. Re: Complete Multicam in CS6?
                    Harm Millaard Level 7

                    The old wisdom still applies: Those who know, don't tell, those who tell don't know.

                    • 7. Re: Complete Multicam in CS6?
                      Colin Brougham Level 6

                      ...and if those who know do tell you, well... heads are gonna roll.

                      • 8. Re: Complete Multicam in CS6?
                        John T Smith Adobe Community Professional & MVP

                        The only thing that is KNOWN about CS6 is the "general" timeline, and even that does not have any exact dates

                         

                        Adobe CEO on CS6 plan http://prodesigntools.com/when-adobe-cs6-coming-out-creative-suite-6.html
                        And http://www.dvinfo.net/article/post/a-spring-surprise-from-adobe-cs5-5.html

                        • 9. Re: Complete Multicam in CS6?
                          Toomany3 Level 1

                          Harm, Colin, I know you guys post on here all the time.  Do you work for Adobe or are you just incredible fans?  (I really appreaciate all the answers you've provided all of us in the past!).

                           

                          If you are employed by Adobe, is that the offical answer?  We can't tell you if it's gong to be CS6 or CS96.  Is that the answer?

                           

                          If you aren't Adobe employes, then perhaps Denis can at least give an answer.  Is this going to be in CS6 or not?  I don't care if CS6 is 2 years away (Ok, well, I do); my editing team and I need to know.  I'll Paypal you some money for that answer even!   j/k.

                          • 10. Re: Complete Multicam in CS6?
                            dradeke Adobe Employee

                            If you aren't Adobe employes, then perhaps Dennis can at least give an answer.

                             

                            I cannot.  Adobe does not comment directly on future releases for a lot obvious reasons.  My reply is to help you individually and the community in general understand that Adobe cares about its customers, listens to them and tries to address their concerns/needs with each and every release. In the end and especially in light of recent Cupertino announcements, knowing that a company is trying to address customer concerns is a welcome thought.

                             

                            Cheers,

                            Dennis

                            • 11. Re: Complete Multicam in CS6?
                              Colin Brougham Level 6

                              Well, "fan" might be a bit strong. After all, Premiere Pro is just a tool--it's not a band or a team or a cola.

                               

                              Do I like Premiere Pro? Indeed I do. Do I work with Premiere Pro exclusively or at least extensively? You bet. Do I know the software pretty well? I like to think so. Do I think Premiere Pro is perfect/good enough? Not a chance. Do I have any idea what is or is not slated for the next version of Premiere Pro? Sorry, I don't.

                               

                              What I do know for sure is that no Adobe employee--and certainly no fan of Premiere Pro--can tell you definitively what is coming in the months or years ahead. You'll get to find out, just like the rest of us, when CSNext is announced or released.

                               

                              I'm not saying this to be cheeky or obtuse, but it would be bad business for Adobe to prognosticate officially or otherwise what's ahead. I'm pretty sure that the reason we're on this somewhat more rapid release schedule is because the Premiere Pro team is trying to remain at least on top of the curve, if not ahead of it. For example, I wouldn't be surprised if the new Merge Clips feature in CS5.5 for dual-system production wasn't originally slated to be in CS5. However, due to priorities or roadblocks or whatever else, it didn't make it, but it was an important enough feature that a "half release" was scheduled and work began on that to get Merge Clips out sooner than later. Granted, this has nothing to do with enhanced multicam (and I'm not even sure if it's truth or fiction, but it sounds good, no?), but my point is that Adobe and the Premiere Pro team are trying to make more regular updates, albeit smaller ones, with each release. That may or may not bode well for multicam improvements in CSNext; only time will tell.

                               

                              Ultimately, we all have our pet peeves and gotta-haves when it comes to Premiere Pro or any other tool, for that matter. At the end of the day, some of us--probably most of us--or going to be let down to a certain extent. Adobe is pretty responsive to user input, particularly when a lot of people make a lot of noise. Right now, the NLE game is theirs to win or lose; they're behind by a few points, but they've just been handed a turnover and the field is wide open. It'll be interesting to see what the next play will be, I can assure you. But right now, if Premiere Pro doesn't serve your needs, your two choices are to stick it out and hope for the best, or jump ship and find another solution. Cruel realities...

                               

                              But back to your original point: it's the official answer. I'm sure one of the Adobe folks will pipe up and tell you the same. Sorry!

                               

                              EDIT: Dennis beat me to it

                              • 12. Re: Complete Multicam in CS6?
                                Harm Millaard Level 7

                                I can only speak for myself, but - sorry to disappoint you, or maybe not - I'm just an average hobbyist who likes to help out and am in no way employed by Adobe.

                                 

                                Mr. Average would be a nice acronym, since I have not had any formal video training, that Jim Simon always suggests is the first place to start. In fact I'm an autodidact, so I had an idiot as a teacher, . I do have some experience with computers since the early '70's, using BASIC, APL (my favorite), Cobol, RPG, Fortran, Pascal, C++, Java, Delphi etc. and have built numerous systems, but if things got too complicated for me I had my son to revert to. He's Cisco, HP, Intel, Microsoft, Symantec and what else you have, certified as architect, engineer, professional, and so on.

                                 

                                That is why you have to take my remarks/posts with a grain of salt, or even with kilo's (being Dutch I'm handicapped with the metric system and English not being my native tongue makes it even harder).

                                 

                                One thing I can say for both Colin and myself, even if we were to know (which is very unlikely), we would not be allowed to mention it, because there are NDA's to adhere to. So what I said earlier still applies.

                                • 13. Re: Complete Multicam in CS6?
                                  Todd_Kopriva Level 8

                                  Regarding the question of who's an employee: We have the word 'EMPLOYEE' under our avatars in the forum.

                                  • 14. Re: Complete Multicam in CS6?
                                    Toomany3 Level 1

                                    Colin, I totally agree with your whole post.  Now's the time for Adobe Premiere to be taken seriously as a legitimate editor.  (I have thought of it as such for a couple years now, especially with CS5).  Most people still (maybe until recently with FCPX) have laughed at Adobe'ers because it wasn't "professional enough"--whatever that means.  Most of them are the Mac-koolaiders who swear by Apple no matter what.  But even THEY are very unhappy with Apple now and are ready to give the other "unprofessional" editors a shot.  Now's Adobe's chance to take over the world! .  Everyone uses Photoshop, and After Effects.  We just need to convert them over to Premiere now!

                                     

                                    It's obvious that Adobe is totally on top of their continued development.  That's what I absolutely LOVE about Adobe.  I appreciate Dennis' remarks about listening to their customers.  It's refreshing to hear, especially when compared to other companies (you know who) don't share a peep about progress and their their user base haning for 2 years--ahem, FCP.

                                     

                                    I like the fact that Adobe says "we're listening, we realize we need to make changes to x, y, z..."  I guess I would like a more definate answer, even if it's cryptic.  A line like "you will really like what you see in CS6" would be awesome!

                                     

                                    Anyway, for anyone having the same problem, here's my workflow:  Not everything I do is multicam.  Only 25% of each project is.  So I edit everything I can in Premiere and use it as my main editor.

                                     

                                    All my multicam stuff I edit in Edius.  (Adobe, PLEASE take a good look at Edius' multicam workflow. It's awesome!)  I dial it in as a final MC product in Edius, send it out to render and then bring in the whole rendered Edius movie into my Premiere project containing the other 75% of my project and export everything out together.  Kind'a bad to have to use two programs to edit, but that's my workflow for now.  You can see why It's a big deal to us.  We lose time/money and video quality everytime we do that.  Adobe Premiere should be capable of doing that on its own.

                                    • 15. Re: Complete Multicam in CS6?
                                      the_wine_snob Level 9

                                      One thing that HAS changed fairly recently, has been little bits and pieces being posted by Adobe employees on their blogs, about upcoming changes. At one time, no one, outside of Adobe, knew anything for sure. The releases of details on new versions often came the day before, or the day of a release. Seldom much before that.

                                       

                                      Lately, the release of some details has been out in front of the actual release by a bit more. Probably not as much in advance, as many would like, but still further out, than in the past. Will this continue? We must wait and see. Will that release time move out from the release date? Again, we will need to stay tuned to find out. Still, history has shifted a bit recently, so who knows?

                                       

                                      I understand your desire to know, as it could well impact your purchases and even your implementation of the software. For you, and others with your needs, I hope that Adobe does feel comfortable in releasing a bit of news earlier - but that can become a very "slippery slope" for Adobe, and they know that all too well. That Dennis cannot say, indicates, to me at least, that Adobe is not yet ready to release any details. I feel that he, Todd, Kevin, et al, will share every tid-bit possible, when possible.

                                       

                                      Good luck to us all,

                                       

                                      Hunt

                                      • 16. Re: Complete Multicam in CS6?
                                        Powered by Design Level 4

                                        As a workaround Toomany3 you can edit NESTS.

                                         

                                        If you take 4 cameras and reduce them to 50% and spread them out then you can get 4 groups that can total 16 cameras to edit.

                                         

                                        The top left group would be nest one with 4 cameras and the top right would be group 2 with 4 more cameras.

                                         

                                        Then after editing you go back into each nest and restore it to 100% for the layer you want.

                                         

                                        Now this is just a workaround and TRUE multicamera editing of more then 4 would be great.

                                         

                                         

                                        GLenn

                                         

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                                        • 17. Re: Complete Multicam in CS6?
                                          Jim_Simon Level 8

                                          We lose...video quality everytime we do that.

                                           

                                          Export out to a lossless DI, such as Uncompressed or an AVI using the UT codec (which plays pretty well inside of PP, even at HD resolutions).