14 Replies Latest reply on Jul 4, 2011 4:57 PM by Jim_Simon

    Managing card media across projects and archives

    Electric Picture Company Level 1

      What is the best resource for learning about keeping project media linked when archiving or moving between projects?

       

      All chip-based cameras have a file-naming scheme that is similar. (00000, 00001, 00002, etc.) When you offload the footage and re-format the card for more shooting, the naming starts over. If you lose links to that media, there seems to be no easy way to know which file you should point Premiere to.

       

      i.e. Is file 00001 the shot of a car from your day one shoot or is is a shot of a house from your day two shoot?

        • 1. Re: Managing card media across projects and archives
          shooternz Level 6

          I place all source media in folders that  have a naming Protocol that makes it easy to identify the shoot /production..

          • 2. Re: Managing card media across projects and archives
            Electric Picture Company Level 1

            Thanks for that. The issue that I see is that if it un-links, the re-link media dialog only calls out the file number not the hierarchy of folders it is contained in. So, all I get is, "please locate file number 00001" 00001 could be the car or it could be the house from my prior example. What would be helpful or may exist would be to have it ask, locate file number 00001 in the "client/production/day1 folder" or, "locate client/production/day100001"

             

            I must be missing something because this seems like a common issue/need.

            • 3. Re: Managing card media across projects and archives
              Jim_Simon Level 8

              That's a very good point.  If you have multiple cards for a project, and thus multiple clips with identical names, how do you know which "Clip 1" is being asked for after things get unlinked?

              • 4. Re: Managing card media across projects and archives
                the_wine_snob Level 9

                Jim,

                 

                While this is one of the best examples, the issue can extend to other media, as well.

                 

                I inherited a Project, where the Assets were is different folders, though those were not logically named. The previous editor had named stills, JPEG01, etc., but there were dozens of JPEG01's, and MOV01's throughout the Project. The folder names gave no clue as to the Sequence, or location, where the Asset were used. This was a real nightmare, and I had to go though and play/view each on a near-by machine, to see which JPEG01, or MOV01 would likely fit. Hours and hours, with a few"guesses" thrown in. In my case, logical folder naming (something that I did, but not until I had found the Asset needed), and logical, sequential file naming would have helped. All of that "housekeeping" got done, though not without some cursing on my part.

                 

                In this case, I can definitely see the problem.

                 

                Hunt

                • 5. Re: Managing card media across projects and archives
                  Electric Picture Company Level 1

                  Thank you for your input. I am guessing there is an answer that an Adobe expert will give at return of business tomorrow. On a related note, I have uncovered a bug in the way the UI interprets clips that exceed the camera's file size limit. One thing at a time though. I am new to this forum but bet I will be asked to submit a bug report instead of dealing with the issue here.

                  • 6. Re: Managing card media across projects and archives
                    the_wine_snob Level 9

                    there is an answer that an Adobe expert will give at return of business tomorrow.

                     

                    In another thread, Jeff Bellune shared that Adobe was on "Summer Break," until July 10th. Might take just a bit longer, than anticipated, but I feel that an answer will come.

                     

                    Good luck,

                     

                    Hunt

                    • 7. Re: Managing card media across projects and archives
                      Colin Brougham Level 6

                      I have uncovered a bug in the way the UI interprets clips that exceed the camera's file size limit.

                       

                      Are you taking the MTS files out of the PRIVATE folder structure? If you do that, you are separating the A/V streams from the metadata files that are necessary for spanning clips that exceed the FAT32 file size limitation.

                      • 8. Re: Managing card media across projects and archives
                        Electric Picture Company Level 1

                        Thanks for this. You have partially confirmed my fears about switching over to Premiere. I have been a Media100 editor for many, many years now. I used Premiere about 10 years ago because it did nice sub-frame editing for Web delivery. (the early days bck when Randy Ubilos was still around) I have been using After Effects since it was CoSa After Effects.

                         

                        I digress, Media100 has always been superb at media management. FinalCut, Avid and Premiere have always had media linking issues to overcome.

                         

                        Before I make any leap – and it will not be to FinalCut – I need to be certain I won't have media management issues.

                        • 9. Re: Managing card media across projects and archives
                          Electric Picture Company Level 1

                          Whoops, I just introduced another issue into my original string. Sorry about that. I will copy paste my original statement and your reply question into a new string tomorrow. Thanks for your input. Happy 4th. Dan.

                          • 10. Re: Managing card media across projects and archives
                            Colin Brougham Level 6

                            I need to be certain I won't have media management issues.

                             

                            Here's the thing: with media such as AVCHD, the file naming issue is one that falls squarely on the shoulders of the consortium that "designed" the AVCHD spec, and not Adobe's or Premiere Pro's. It was silly and short-sighted, without a doubt--and it's one of the reasons that I think AVCHD is going to eventually fade into obsolence the way that HDV has. The bottom line is that it's up to the editor (the person, not the software) to exercise caution when working with such formats.

                             

                            Premiere Pro uses absolute links in the project file XML to specify file locations. This means that if you move your project to another machine, and the footage is on the same lettered/IDed drive and in the same folder structure, it will relink without asking you. If it can't find one of the files, you are asked to relink (as you know); if the folder structure is the same, Premiere Pro will relink all files in the same relative folder structure as specified in the project. So, yeah--it's a pain figuring out which "00001.MTS" is being asked for, but if you guess wrong, you can just close the project without saving and try again. You can also skip past the Missing File dialog and relink media from within the project, once it's open. If you can identify where one particular clip is supposed to be, you can select a bin, right-click and select Link Media. This lets you be a little more selective, but again, requires you to know what goes where.

                             

                            In the end, if you're not moving your project around, you should have to worry about media going offline. If you are moving your project around, it requires some due diligence on your part to create mirrored media folders on one or more systems. In the era of tapeless video, the camera manufacturers have somewhat neglected the editor in the race to make things faster/cheaper/etc. That results in stuff like AVCHD, so you really can't fault Premiere Pro if it has to play the cards it's dealt.

                             

                            EDIT: For what it's worth, a big part of the problem--particularly with AVCHD--is that there is a lack of tools that would enable the editing of clip metadata as written into the folder structures. That would mitigate a lot of the problems we have. Personally, I want to task Adobe with this: come up with a media ingest, logging and management tool that sits outboard of Premiere Pro and is geared toward proper preparation of tapeless camera assets for professional post-production. There are some third-party tools out there for the various formats--P2 Viewer for Panasonic P2, XDCAM Browser for XDCAM, RedcineX for R3D--and they all suck. Big time. Premiere Pro is loaded to the gills with metadata awareness, but it does little good if you're locked into metadata that is only accessible within a project file. If they had this, Premiere Pro would own.

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                            • 11. Re: Managing card media across projects and archives
                              Electric Picture Company Level 1

                              EDIT: For what it's worth, a big part of the problem--particularly with AVCHD--is that there is a lack of tools that would enable the editing of clip metadata as written into the folder structures. That would mitigate a lot of the problems we have. Personally, I want to task Adobe with this: come up with a media ingest, logging and management tool that sits outboard of Premiere Pro and is geared toward proper preparation of tapeless camera assets for professional post-production. There are some third-party tools out there for the various formats--P2 Viewer for Panasonic P2, XDCAM Browser for XDCAM, RedcineX for R3D--and they all suck. Big time. Premiere Pro is loaded to the gills with metadata awareness, but it does little good if you're locked into metadata that is only accessible within a project file. If they had this, Premiere Pro would own.

                               

                               

                              Colin,

                              I share your views on tasking hardware manufacturers with properly encoding and decoding their footage. This is why I have recently been using a Sony XDCam recorder for ingest via machine control and HD/SDI. If you name the "reels" properly, you can conform to HD very fast and easy. Many editors don't have or won't want to spend 25k to be able to do this though. Plus, the ability that CS5.5 has to read camera-native files is an irresistible draw to using the software. Nominal ingest time and minimal archiving data hit are the two biggies here.

                               

                              I agree 100% with your last statement where you task Adobe with finding a clean way to unique-ID ALL assets it is taking responsibility for ingesting into it's workflow. As a newly re-introduced Premiere user, I am surprised they have not already dealt with this issue. No matter what tapeless format is used, they all have this file structure has to be left in-tact and hast to be accounted for.

                               

                              Thanks for your time and thoughts. It is an interesting time in the industry!

                              Dan.

                              • 12. Re: Managing card media across projects and archives
                                shooternz Level 6

                                FWIW

                                 

                                I have never had any real issue with Premiere and file management. (although I do see your point and think improvements could be made in the way we locate an offline file)

                                 

                                Going tapeless (P2 mxf) to a file based edit workflow some time ago  was a turning point and certainly made me aware that the files needed careful management by myself.  P2 was easier than AVCHD due to the unie but cryptic filenames.

                                 

                                My folder naming protocol has never let me down.

                                 

                                Example:

                                 

                                ABCtvc2jun11\Rushes1\Private...

                                ABCtvc2jun11\Rushes 2\Private...

                                ABCtvc2jun11\Rushes 3\Private...

                                 

                                I mantain that name through into the bins in the Project Window.

                                 

                                I also maintain that in the archive disk drives.

                                 

                                If I ever delete Source files from my local drive ( NLE system)  I only delete the contents and leaver the Folder where it is.

                                If I  ever need the files back..I copy them in from the archive

                                 

                                 

                                BTW: I frequently work outside the Private Folder structure.  eg I simply use the mts video file by itself.  Relocate them in my drives , copy them,  take them to other facilties (ie. I use them exactly like a clip)

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                                • 13. Re: Managing card media across projects and archives
                                  Electric Picture Company Level 1

                                  Example:

                                   

                                  ABCtvc2jun11\Rushes1\Private...

                                  ABCtvc2jun11\Rushes 2\Private...

                                  ABCtvc2jun11\Rushes 3\Private...

                                   

                                  I mantain that name through into the bins in the Project Window.

                                   

                                  I also maintain that in the archive disk drives.

                                   

                                  If I ever delete Source files from my local drive ( NLE system)  I only delete the contents and leaver the Folder where it is.

                                  If I  ever need the files back..I copy them in from the archive

                                   

                                   

                                  BTW: I frequently work outside the Private Folder structure.  eg I simply use the mts video file by itself.  Relocate them in my drives , copy them,  take them to other facilties (ie. I use them exactly like a clip)

                                  Thank you for that. I like your tip of leaving your empty folder structure after you archive. I am in the middle of creating teat clips with a cheese-cam AVCHD, my Canon 305, and will get files from a colleagues new F3. My goal is to move the data around as much as possible to see how it links or doesn't link.

                                   

                                  As an aside, I thought Avid, FCP and Premiere used the a universal numbering scheme when ingesting data. I would think they could incorporate this into the process to make re-linking bullet-proof.

                                  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Globally_unique_identifier

                                  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Universally_unique_identifier

                                  • 14. Re: Managing card media across projects and archives
                                    Jim_Simon Level 8
                                    No matter what tapeless format is used, they all have this file structure has to be left in-tact and hast to be accounted for.

                                     

                                    That's actually not true.  Both RED's R3D files and Canon's implementation of MXF files for their 100/300 series cameras actually do things right.  They put all required data into one file, which can be renamed or moved as desired without breaking anything.

                                     

                                    Other camera makers could learn from this.