17 Replies Latest reply on Jul 8, 2011 5:53 AM by camilo umana

    Why deleting a band space may damage the style structure?

    camilo umana Level 1

      As shown here I need to fix (eliminate)  this spaces before the return in order to make a search in grep to find paragraphs without an end period and this space is a calamity to the search.

       

      It does not sound logic at all.

      Perhaps it is a corrupted document?

      It was saved as Idml...

      (Style options: «next style»  is not causing the style changing)

       

       

       

       

       

       

       

      1.png

       

       

       

       

       

       

       

       

       

       

       

      2.png

        • 1. Re: Why deleting a band space may damage the style structure?
          Eugene Tyson Adobe Community Professional & MVP

          GREP FIND

          $

           

          There is a SPACE (insert with spacebar on keyboard) before $

          • 2. Re: Why deleting a band space may damage the style structure?
            camilo umana Level 1

            Thank you, although using your clever idea it seems the problem persists as shown in the picture as far Grep also identifies the paragraphs with end period.

             

            The point is not to  eliminate this space BEFORE using the Grep...? (Grep see all of them) or at least have a better combination in grep as these from Peter Kahrel?

             

            (?=∴([^)]+∴)$)

             

             

            ([^.?!])$

             

             

            Also, why InDesign alters the style structure? Think this is also a main heading here?5.jpg

            • 3. Re: Why deleting a band space may damage the style structure?
              Eugene Tyson Adobe Community Professional & MVP

              You must have two spaces

               

              Try

               

              +$

               

              that's <space>+$

              • 4. Re: Why deleting a band space may damage the style structure?
                camilo umana Level 1

                Thanks again.

                 

                I used this new formulae but the result is the same...: Grep identifies all paragraphs with/without period because the space BEFORE the return (and after the period) gives a false signal. 

                 

                I think have not at all two spaces before the carriage return as the picture in the first shows.

                • 5. Re: Why deleting a band space may damage the style structure?
                  Eugene Tyson Adobe Community Professional & MVP

                  I don't understand what you mean.

                   

                  Can you type out what you want done in the forum.

                  • 6. Re: Why deleting a band space may damage the style structure?
                    camilo umana Level 1

                    Eugene:

                     

                    For the reason below quoted I need to remove a space before a return as my text was sent with these... (I hope it is clear in the first post)

                     

                    I must add: if I remove these extra spaces all the text get damaged as the styles are lost and get mixe as shown in the first picture

                     

                    If I use the grep recipes to detect these paragraphs without end period it does not work because grep detects also these paragraph with end period.

                     

                    I suspect that [perhaps] this space after the period and before the hard return causes the problem.

                     

                    But if try to f/change this

                     

                              <end period><space><hard return>

                     

                    to

                     

                              <end period><hard return>

                     

                    it happens something weird: the next paragraph loses specifications (it is very clear in the first post).

                     

                    Two problems. One, grep recipes (yours and mr P. Kahrel) see all the sentences with/without end period and the f/change can not be made in automatic sequence. Second, it is unusual that removing a space before a hard return (paragraph enter) the styles get damage.

                     

                    Thank for your patience.

                     

                    (Hard return, paragraph enter, carriage return are synonyms...)

                    • 7. Re: Why deleting a band space may damage the style structure?
                      Eugene Tyson Adobe Community Professional & MVP

                      Don't search for the hard return.

                       

                      Instead

                       

                      Search

                       

                      <end period><space>$

                      • 8. Re: Why deleting a band space may damage the style structure?
                        Peter Spier Most Valuable Participant (Moderator)

                        Actually, you should be able to search for \s+$ and replace with nothing. This will pick up any and all whitespace at the end of the paragraph.

                        1 person found this helpful
                        • 9. Re: Why deleting a band space may damage the style structure?
                          camilo umana Level 1

                          Yes, it is better formula.

                           

                          Anyway the Grep problem is resolved. But the style conflict seems intolerable for the logic.

                           

                          Thanks again for your time and answers.

                          • 10. Re: Why deleting a band space may damage the style structure?
                            Peter Spier Most Valuable Participant (Moderator)

                            Using that querey should NOT cause any style change to occur (it doesn't here). Searching for the end-of-paragraph marker, however, would be a problem.

                            • 11. Re: Why deleting a band space may damage the style structure?
                              camilo umana Level 1

                              Related to this post, although the Grep matter was cleared, something completely unusual is happening in this situation.

                              Of course I deduce it is a bug and report it. But it so illogical that cannot be true at all:3.png

                              • 12. Re: Why deleting a band space may damage the style structure?
                                Joel Cherney Adobe Community Professional & MVP

                                I'm not convinced it's a bug. You remove the hard return, which combines two paragraphs into one, and so they have one paragraph style. Then you separate the two paragraphs with a new hard return - but the second paragraph's style has been destroyed, by combining it with the previous paragraph.

                                 

                                I suspect that this is behaving as it was intended to behave. Which is why, I suspect, the other posters in this thread are telling you to not search for a hard return. In GREP, $ represents "the end of a paragraph" not "the hard return at the end of most paragraphs."

                                • 13. Re: Why deleting a band space may damage the style structure?
                                  camilo umana Level 1

                                  3.png

                                   

                                  Yes, I wasvery indolent with the terminology (hard return, carriage return,, etc).

                                   

                                  But I am not removing a hard return! just the space before the hard return...

                                   

                                  What is completely illogical is that the task of eliminating a simple and irrelevant space before a return could cause this crash of the style system (because this element can noy have any function at this level).

                                   

                                  Of course, in this situation, the second search with grep, to detect the paragraphs without an end period, is a mess as grep reads <end period +space+end of paragraph> as a paragraph without end period, that is the problem in the text to work: many paragraphs without end period.

                                  • 14. Re: Why deleting a band space may damage the style structure?
                                    Joel Cherney Adobe Community Professional & MVP

                                    But I am not removing a hard return! just the space before the hard return...

                                     

                                     

                                    I'm not going to try to tell you what is logical or illogical here; however, you are certainly removing a hard return. Really, you are. If you do a find for "Umana" and replace with "mana" InDesign is doing more than removing the "U". It is deleting "Umana" entirely, and then in the place where "Umana" used to be, it is inserting "mana."

                                    • 15. Re: Why deleting a band space may damage the style structure?
                                      camilo umana Level 1

                                      Yes, you can not tell me what is illogical as far the condition of illogical is that: an absence of explanation! A gifted beginning!

                                       

                                      But your statement

                                       

                                      however, you are certainly removing a hard return [...]

                                       

                                      is not true at all as far as I am not removing a hard return. I am replacing in a paragraph the combination <space><hard return> for the combination <hard return>, it means that the hard return remains. Beyond terminology, here we have an example that may be recreated just typing a couple of words. I hope not having a corrupted software or file as made a test with other machine.

                                       

                                      The point is not replacing Cherney by Herney or whatever word/letter combination. It is just a real situation with real texts where the removing of a space before a hard return is provoking an annoying damage in the layout. (If the space before the hard return is instead em/en space nothing happens)

                                       

                                       

                                      Please, put your experience (1424 posts versus 10 = 99%) and consider reading this new chart. Otherwise this bug will get the size of an elephant in my nightmares:

                                      fchange.jpg

                                      • 16. Re: Why deleting a band space may damage the style structure?
                                        Peter Spier Most Valuable Participant (Moderator)

                                        It doesn't SEEM like it, but Joel is correct. If you include the paragraph return in the search it is indeed part of waht is found and is removed, then replced with your new paragraph return. It's the same thing as if you highlight the space and end of paragraph mark, hit delete, and then hit enter to break the paragraphs apart again. When that first return is removed, the following paragraph become part of the first one and picks up the style.

                                         

                                        That's why it's critical to use the location marker -- $ for end of paragraph -- instead of the return itself in your search. The return is not considered as part of the paragraph in that case and is not removed, so you don't need to replace with anything. Just search for \s+$ and leave the change to field and change formatting blank.

                                        • 17. Re: Why deleting a band space may damage the style structure?
                                          camilo umana Level 1

                                          Peter:

                                           

                                          Finally the point is cleared. And from that something is new for me:

                                           

                                          as I replicated your instruction and manually removed the space and the paragraph return, after highligting both, the cursor remained at the end of the first paragraph. Instantly I hit the paragraph return key and both styles are preserved.

                                           

                                          But, if you do this with f/change window the behaviour is different as IDesign after deleting the space and the paragraph return instantly mixes the two paragraphs with the dammed consequences already seen.

                                           

                                          The question may remains alive. How to delete these extra spaces before and paragraph return? How to design a mechanical process. Or, it is necessary? At least in my theater book it seemed a natural way. Perhaps refining the Grep as you finely posted, the process will be perfect.

                                           

                                          Thanks again. Not bad something logic to begin the day!

                                           

                                          Camilo